Virtus

[Brenda_V]

As far as being fingerprinted as a volunteer having ramifications on future employment - don’t worry. Many companies require fingerprinting and if you don’t want to you don’t get hired. Teachers, childcare workers and School administrators come to mind.

The fingerprinting is just for background checks to protect the children and the employer (whether they pay you or not) from lawsuits.

As for Virtus, I am not familiar with the program itself but have taught a Safe Touch program to both kindergarden and First Grade CCD students. Both grades had a single lesson that only took about 15-20 minutes to teach and since bullying has become a problem in one of the schools that has come to my attention we talked about that too. Sex abuser are bullys, we talked a little bit about not just standing by and watching a bully act on a class mate but to get the duty teacher involved!

Brenda V.

 

[BlestOne]

I sent this link to my childs school after I found out about the program and I would not allow it for my children:
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/cath-parents.htm

I had no problem with the adult part for parents but when I saw what was in store for the kids…that was another story! I was appalled at what this article and the links from it had to say.

 

[C_S_P_B]

There is a page on the www.dads.org site that has sevaral articles about sex education, safe touch, Virtus as well as the Chruch teaching of the Magisterium. There are also a couple of mp3 files. dads.org/article.asp?artId=347

Kids should be kids. Adults should be the adults and protectors of the children. Children should not be expected to discern right from wrong in this area in order to protect themselves. Can they say no? Of course! But adults should not make the children responsible for determining good touch and bad touch.

Let’s keep in mind that we cannot absolutely protect each child and by trying to do so, we may actually be causing more damage to innocent children. Also over 80% of the abuse cases facing the Church are molestation of adolescent boys by adult men. In polite cirlces we dare not mention that the abuse problem was primarily homosexual abuse.

Dr. William Coulson has a very interesting story to tell that I think relates entirely. In the 1960s he supported Dr Rogers in certain educational “group think” psychology that still pervades the schools. Now he is talking about the effects of this because he has seen the results. Values education, tolerance, acceptance of different lifestyles were all part of this program. Also the thrust was to let the children decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. issuesetc.org/resource/journals/coulson.htm

" If there was ever an example of tyranny over the minds of children, it is what is being given to them in the name of education and “help” today, through thoroughly deceptive behaviorist tactics like Values Clarification. Through Outcome Based Education, children and teenagers are manipulated and molded with the purpose of bringing about certain desired “outcomes.” This process, in part, involves breaking down and subtly invalidating the child’s already acquired values–and replacing them with the idea that there is no set right or wrong, only personal opinion. For the child the result can be, minimally, confusion and disorientation." cgibin.erols.com/ksciacca/cgi-bin/bb/messages/918.html

The Protecting God’s Children and Virtus programs are very similar. I found the following audio series very helpful is sifting through the good intentions of these programs to decide for myself.

Psychology in Education - Friend or Foe? 3 CDs
getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=4719

 

[AWall]

BlestOne:

I sent this link to my childs school after I found out about the program and I would not allow it for my children:
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/cath-parents.htm

I had no problem with the adult part for parents but when I saw what was in store for the kids…that was another story! I was appalled at what this article and the links from it had to say.

Ok, the part that gets me, in that “touching book” is where it talks about “being grown up and sharing parts with someone very, very special”. “Grown ups share those parts with another special grown up”. Why does it not say when you grow up those parts are meant to be shared between husband and *wife *in marriage? The way it’s written could imply, boyfriend or girlfriend or same sex partner.

Terrible. And is this something being taught now in all diocese? My kids are in Catholic preschool and will start Kindergarten in Sept. I think I will ask if this is being used.

Thank you for that link.

Andrea

 

[asquared]

AWall:

Ok, the part that gets me, in that “touching book” is where it talks about “being grown up and sharing parts with someone very, very special”. "

Terrible. And is this something being taught now in all diocese? My kids are in Catholic preschool and will start Kindergarten in Sept. I think I will ask if this is being used.

Thank you for that link.

Andrea

there is no “touching book” in the Virtus Safety Awareness program. There is a 6 minute video for each age group and a 45 minute presentation by a trained facilitator, with various classroom activities. At no time are sexual body parts named or described.

there are however other programs out there. The bishops have mandated, in ordering the implementation of these programs, that ALL parents must have the opportunity to review the materials beforehand and to sign off on the program, and to opt out.

as I just explained on a similar thread about the same topic, most parents seem to express no concern whatever about what their children are learning about this area, or sex ed in general (Virtus IS NOT sex ed), whether in RE, parochial school, or public school. In my opinion as a DRE and grandparent, a parent who neglects their child’s education in this area and delegates it to someone else without any oversight is guilty of at least neglect.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

Here’s another link discussing one Bishop’s evaluation of the Virtus Children’s program.

sentinel.org/articles/2005-40/14234.html

 

[Toni]

AwaitingHeaven:

I’m not sure what you mean by “the Virtus idea that we should teach our children what pornography is”. Someone may get the wrong impression here.

I recently attended a VIRTUS class myself. I can’t say that I learned anything that I did not already know. In our session, they presented facts and encouraged questions, but there really wasn’t much in the way of answers given.

Perhaps you should come up with concrete suggestions and provide it as feedback.

Peace…

I also attended this class and never saw training on teaching children pornography. The idea of the class is to make everyone aware of what is going on in the world around them (and yes even the church) . I believe the teaching is more directed towards the parents of the children, than the children themselves. Teaching adults how to identify and beware of the circumstances that their children may be in.

 

[AWall]

asquared:

there is no “touching book” in the Virtus Safety Awareness program. There is a 6 minute video for each age group and a 45 minute presentation by a trained facilitator, with various classroom activities. At no time are sexual body parts named or described.

Oh, that’s good. That book was awful.

asquared:

there are however other programs out there. The bishops have mandated, in ordering the implementation of these programs, that ALL parents must have the opportunity to review the materials beforehand and to sign off on the program, and to opt out.

I wonder what program is using it then. I’ll have to go back and read over the information again.

asquared:

as I just explained on a similar thread about the same topic, most parents seem to express no concern whatever about what their children are learning about this area, or sex ed in general (Virtus IS NOT sex ed), whether in RE, parochial school, or public school. In my opinion as a DRE and grandparent, a parent who neglects their child’s education in this area and delegates it to someone else without any oversight is guilty of at least neglect.

I absolutely agree with this. Parents must pay attention to what their children are learning.

Andrea

 

[Corki]

asquared:

as I just explained on a similar thread about the same topic, most parents seem to express no concern whatever about what their children are learning about this area, or sex ed in general (Virtus IS NOT sex ed), whether in RE, parochial school, or public school. In my opinion as a DRE and grandparent, a parent who neglects their child’s education in this area and delegates it to someone else without any oversight is guilty of at least neglect.

The big concern I have is how am I supposed to know that this is going to be introduced so that I can exercise my right to review the material and opt out? In our diocese there is a mandated sex ed component for Confirmation prep. Parents are not allowed to opt out of the sex ed without “opting out” of Confirmation classes. The reason given is that the sex-ed material is covered over 10 weeks and that a child who misses that many classes doesn’t get confirmed. If a parent choses to do that the child is deprived of the Sacrament until they are old enough to do the adult Confirmation.

Other programs have been brought up as well. The “official” word we have from the diocese is that the parent has the right to opt out but that they parish/DRE/teacher is not required to give any prior notification to the parent. By the time that we (parents) find out that something is being presented in class, it is too late. We hear it from the kids.

I am talking about the CCE program here. I am not sure how this is being handled in the Catholic schools.

VIRTUS is not sex-ed, that is true. The VIRTUS program is for the adults. However, the “good touch, bad touch” programs are very sexualized at ages that are way too early. This is defined by the Church as child abuse.

 

[asquared]

Corki:

In our diocese there is a mandated sex ed component for Confirmation prep. Parents are not allowed to opt out of the sex ed without “opting out” of Confirmation classes.
I am talking about the CCE program here. I am not sure how this is being handled in the Catholic schools.

VIRTUS is not sex-ed, that is true. The VIRTUS program is for the adults. However, the “good touch, bad touch” programs are very sexualized at ages that are way too early. This is defined by the Church as child abuse.

this thread is about Virtus, not about sex-ed in CCD, confirmation prep, or Catholic school. Suggest you start another thread to discuss sex-ed.

The virtus program we previewed yesterday, and I saw all the videos, and lesson plans for all age groups, is not “sexualized”, does not name or describe private body parts or sexual functions. About any other safe touch programs being used I cannot comment. I only repeat, parents get involved. Your parish cannot present a safe touch program without notifying you and giving you the chance to opt out.

 

[Corki]

asquared:

. I only repeat, parents get involved. Your parish cannot present a safe touch program without notifying you and giving you the chance to opt out.

And I repeat, in our diocese, the DRE does NOT have to notify the parents that such a program will be offered. It is entirely up to the parents to find out by whatever means necessary that this is coming up and INSIST on reviewing the material. Once you find out, then you can opt out if that course of action seems most appropriate.

We are saying the same thing - that parents need to check out the material and be involved. I am just cautioning that we should not wait for the DRE/teacher or whatever to tell us that the program is rolling out so that we can check it out. It may already be rolling without our knowledge.

I have only reviewed one program for kids so far. It is very sexualized (it is the one sponsored by PP that Bishop Vasa referred to in the link JMJ Theresa posted). It includes having children draw the private parts on an outline of the human body and name them - in Kindergarten or 1st grade.

The OP was, I believe, referring to the VIRTUS training that all volunteers and teachers must go through. I agree with the OP that it was completely devoid of Catholic teaching. It was not pariticularly offensive in what it contained but it was definately a missed opportunity for the Church to give authentic teaching to a captive audience.

 

[Orogeny]

Corki:

The OP was, I believe, referring to the VIRTUS training that all volunteers and teachers must go through. I agree with the OP that it was completely devoid of Catholic teaching. It was not pariticularly offensive in what it contained but it was definately a missed opportunity for the Church to give authentic teaching to a captive audience.

What teaching of the Church pertains to identifying potential warning signs that wasn’t addressed in the Virtus training? Virtus isn’t a theological topic. It was designed to increase our awareness of potential sexual predators.

Peace

Tim

 

[Corki]

Orogeny:

What teaching of the Church pertains to identifying potential warning signs that wasn’t addressed in the Virtus training? Virtus isn’t a theological topic. It was designed to increase our awareness of potential sexual predators.

Peace

Tim

Tim.

The main elements of the Church’s teaching on this are in “The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality” which can be read here

VIRTUS is not thoelogical but it is moral. The Church has consistently maintained that any teaching with regard to sexuality MUST involve the parents as the primary transmitters of the teaching, must not sexualize the child at too early an age (or too sensitive an age), and must respect the modesty of the child.

The goal to increase our (the adults) awareness of sexual predators is laudable. I don’t have any real problems with the adult VIRTUS presentation, except that its target audience was Catholic adults and it was pretty much devoid of any Church teaching. It didn’t teach AGAINST the Church, just ignored it.

Any program for the children that tries to acheive a similar goal is also laudable but not if it ignores Church teaching or if it tries to teach the material without the parents primary involvement. Either of those situations would be in direct violation of Church teaching.

A laudable end does not justify an illicit means.

 

[Orogeny]

Corki:

VIRTUS is not thoelogical but it is moral. The Church has consistently maintained that any teaching with regard to sexuality MUST involve the parents as the primary transmitters of the teaching, must not sexualize the child at too early an age (or too sensitive an age), and must respect the modesty of the child.

My response was to this posting by you (emphasis added by me):

Corki:

The OP was, I believe, referring to the VIRTUS training that all volunteers and teachers must go through. I agree with the OP that it was completely devoid of Catholic teaching. It was not pariticularly offensive in what it contained but it was definately a missed opportunity for the Church to give authentic teaching to a captive audience.

I thought, reading that paragraph, that you were discussing Virtus, which is for adults only and is not about sexuality. My mistake if you were refering to a children’s program.

The goal to increase our (the adults) awareness of sexual predators is laudable. I don’t have any real problems with the adult VIRTUS presentation, except that its target audience was Catholic adults and it was pretty much devoid of any Church teaching. It didn’t teach AGAINST the Church, just ignored it.

Well, once again, Virtus is not about sexuality. Therefore, what Church teacing are you suggesting was ignored? If your session discussed sex, the facilitator should be corrected by the diocese because that is definately not part of the training.

Peace

Tim

 

[Corki]

Tim,

I am referring to the children’s component of the Protecting God’s Children compliance. Some of the diocese seem to be calling this VIRTUS - others are calling it something else. Every diocese is supposed to implement one version or another in order to be “In compliance” to the lay oversight group.

I have only reviewed one program. It was the PP one that is being used in some dioceses. asquared seems to have reviewed another program. Our diocese will not give us any specific information about which program is being contemplated for us. This lack of information has caused some anxiety among parents and RE teachers (I am both).

 

[bellesjoy]

Bishop Vasa, quoted in the above link, is the only Bishop I know of who is more interested in the wellbeing of our children than in being compliant with a dictate from the USCCB. He refuses to impliment this in our diocese until he is assured that no harm will come to children from the programs themselves.
In that regard, he has asked the Catholic Medical Association to review the programs and give their opinion on weather or not they are indeed helpful or hurtful. He is making his misgivings known to those in the Holy See as well.
We are very thankful for our Bishop.

 

[Donna_P]

GWofVA:

I was a musician in my church’s choir for a while; thus, I had to attend one of these programs. However, they wanted me to be finger-printed so they could do a criminal background check on me. I believe in protecting our children just as much as the next guy, but this was a bit too much for me. I had nothing to hide but they should also be a little bit more trusting if volunteers are giving of their time --for free, might I add-- to help out the church. Not to mention, that I don’t know what kind of ramifications this might have for me at my next job interview. Now don’t get me wrong. I think alerting people to this kind of thing through the seminar was fine, just show to me that trust is a two way street. We’re supposed to be the good guys. GW

My job is to do background checks. It is an unfortunate reality. We do many many checks for youth athletic organizations and other non-profit volunteer checks. I understand your reluctance, however, it IS the price you pay for working with kids.

I tell my clients that if a volunteer doesn’t want to provide the necessary informaiton to have a background check done then don’t have them volunteer.

The truth is 6% of all checks come back with some kind of criminal record. YOu may be trustworthy, but every parent doesn’t know that.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

anna1978:

I’m glad someone said that most sexual predators are/look like ‘good guys’…because my uncle was THE most God-fearing, child-friendly, lovely man…the ideal son who visited and cooked for his mother, every day, who was active in the (Mennonite) church, did lots of things for the community, was the supervisor at a work-place for retarded adults, a doting father, a loving husband who nursed his first wife through terminal leukemia, and who had the perfect marriage with his second wife too…When in the mid-1980s several young women took him to court for abuse, including a whole bunch of foster-children, my grandma was in denial…Heck: EVERYBODY was in denial: this was the most loving, hard-working, wonderful man you could ever hope to meet! Yet…it was those characteristics that helped him ‘groom’ his victims, into believing ‘nobody will believe you’…and quite a few said ‘But he was so christian, I just had to trust him!’…Yes, you can be VERY wrong indeed…So, I think even if that Virtus programme is the first feeble attempt at wising up people, AND children…unfortunately, from experience I can say: it’s needed !

Anna x

That is so frightening.

 

[puzzleannie]

virtus.org/virtus/

link to the VIRTUS - Protecting God’s Children - Touching Safety site, this month’s article, monitoring programs your child will be exposed to.