Visible and Invisible Church

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Matariel

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I am currently talking to my godbrother about the Catholic Church. He knows I am an ex-Protestant, and soon to be an ex-Anglican, and about to join the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Many of my sacramental arguements and historical perspective of Christianity have effected him positively, and he is beginning to move away from his Calvary-Chapel commercial-marketeering version of Christianity into something more substantial-- he told me he’s interested in one of the Lutheran communities. I tried to convince him he should make the swim across the Tiber with me, but he’s obstinate, and said that the Church “… is not an individual institution, it is the invisible body of believers all across the world. There is no visible church that was divinely-instituted.”

I was wondering if there were any resources or articles that could show where in the early Fathers or the Bible a visible, united, institutional Church is depicted. Thanks.
 
Matariel said:
I am currently talking to my godbrother about the Catholic Church. He knows I am an ex-Protestant, and soon to be an ex-Anglican, and about to join the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Many of my sacramental arguements and historical perspective of Christianity have effected him positively, and he is beginning to move away from his Calvary-Chapel commercial-marketeering version of Christianity into something more substantial-- he told me he’s interested in one of the Lutheran communities. I tried to convince him he should make the swim across the Tiber with me, but he’s obstinate, and said that the Church “… is not an individual institution, it is the invisible body of believers all across the world. There is no visible church that was divinely-instituted.”

I was wondering if there were any resources or articles that could show where in the early Fathers or the Bible a visible, united, institutional Church is depicted. Thanks.
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Here are a few articles that might help:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a129.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a130.htm

catholic-legate.com/articles/matt1817.html

Also, do a search at This Rock and I’m sure you’ll find more articles on the subject.
 
Matariel said:
I am currently talking to my godbrother about the Catholic Church. He knows I am an ex-Protestant, and soon to be an ex-Anglican, and about to join the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Many of my sacramental arguements and historical perspective of Christianity have effected him positively, and he is beginning to move away from his Calvary-Chapel commercial-marketeering version of Christianity into something more substantial-- he told me he’s interested in one of the Lutheran communities. I tried to convince him he should make the swim across the Tiber with me, but he’s obstinate, and said that the Church “… is not an individual institution, it is the invisible body of believers all across the world. There is no visible church that was divinely-instituted.”

I was wondering if there were any resources or articles that could show where in the early Fathers or the Bible a visible, united, institutional Church is depicted. Thanks.
Click to expand...
If you can get your hands on Where is that in the Bible?, by Patrick Madrid it has a great discussion on the visible Church. Also, checkout Scripture Catholic. Hope it helps.

God bless,
ZP
 
John Martignoni has a lot of great apologetics downloads here.

The one called One Church has what you’re looking for.
 
Matariel said:
and said that the Church “… is not an individual institution, it is the invisible body of believers all across the world. There is no visible church that was divinely-instituted.”
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Lutherans believe the Catholic Church is not part of the “invisible Church”.

And most who believe in the “invisible Church” exclude the Catholic Church.

And does this “invisible body of believers” have even the same moral (not to mention theological) teachings?
 
Matariel said:
I am currently talking to my godbrother about the Catholic Church. He knows I am an ex-Protestant, and soon to be an ex-Anglican, and about to join the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Many of my sacramental arguements and historical perspective of Christianity have effected him positively, and he is beginning to move away from his Calvary-Chapel commercial-marketeering version of Christianity into something more substantial-- he told me he’s interested in one of the Lutheran communities. I tried to convince him he should make the swim across the Tiber with me, but he’s obstinate, and said that the Church “… is not an individual institution, it is the invisible body of believers all across the world. There is no visible church that was divinely-instituted.”

I was wondering if there were any resources or articles that could show where in the early Fathers or the Bible a visible, united, institutional Church is depicted. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Visible and Invisible Church means the Catholic Church is Human and Divine. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and Jesus Christ is Human and Divine: So the Church is Human (the visible) and Divine (the invisible). Furthermore, the Church is Visible and Invisible in light of the fact that it is on Earth (visible) and in Purgatory and in Heaven (invisible). The Church was divinely instituted by Christ, who insituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist, and who, in the Eucharist, is the Church’s Source (Founder), and Center (Heart of the Mystical Body, from which comes all graces and spiritual blessings), and Summit (Second Coming, which is already imminent in the Eucharist). The Eucharist makes the Church, and since in the Most Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ Himself, the Eucharist makes the Invisible and Visible Church.
 
FCEGM said:
Here are a few articles that might help:

Also, do a search at This Rock and I’m sure you’ll find more articles on the subject.
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I’ve already checked *This Rock *out. Found alittle. I’ll check out the above links too. 👍
 
Nickkname said:
Visible and Invisible Church means the Catholic Church is Human and Divine. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and Jesus Christ is Human and Divine: So the Church is Human (the visible) and Divine (the invisible). Furthermore, the Church is Visible and Invisible in light of the fact that it is on Earth (visible) and in Purgatory and in Heaven (invisible). The Church was divinely instituted by Christ, who insituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist, and who, in the Eucharist, is the Church’s Source (Founder), and Center (Heart of the Mystical Body, from which comes all graces and spiritual blessings), and Summit (Second Coming, which is already imminent in the Eucharist). The Eucharist makes the Church, and since in the Most Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ Himself, the Eucharist makes the Invisible and Visible Church.
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Great analogous explanation. 👍
 
mark_a said:
Lutherans believe the Catholic Church is not part of the “invisible Church”.

And most who believe in the “invisible Church” exclude the Catholic Church.

And does this “invisible body of believers” have even the same moral (not to mention theological) teachings?
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As a baptist who believes strongly in the invisible Church I would say:

The Catholic church is not part of the invisible church. My church is not part of the invisible church. No church is. The invisible church is comprised of persons not churches.

I certainly believe that many catholics are part of the invisible Church. Any person who is born of the Spirit is part of Christ’s spiritual body which is the invisible Church.
 
mark_a said:
Lutherans believe the Catholic Church is not part of the “invisible Church”.

And most who believe in the “invisible Church” exclude the Catholic Church.
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That’s not true. You are missing the whole point of the “invisible Church” as commonly taught in American evangelicalism. The “invisible Church” by definition doesn’t include institutions. It includes individuals. Only a tiny minority consisting of the very most hardline fundamentalists think that membership in the Catholic Church excludes membership in the invisible Church. A much larger number (but still a small minority of modern Protestants) would say that wholehearted acceptance of all official Catholic teaching excludes membership in the invisible Church.

Edwin
 
Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.
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I think the above passage speaks very clearly that the Church would be a visible one - not invisible.
(city=church. City refers to a group, not an individual.)
Matthew 5:15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.
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In the book of Revelation, lampstand=church (Rev 1:20).
Putting it “under a bushel” would be equivalent to keeping it invisible.

And of course, when Jesus speaks of His Church He says it will be built on Peter - a visible head.

Nita
 
Ethan_Enoch said:
As a baptist who believes strongly in the invisible Church I would say:

The Catholic church is not part of the invisible church. My church is not part of the invisible church. No church is. The invisible church is comprised of persons not churches.

I certainly believe that many catholics are part of the invisible Church. Any person who is born of the Spirit is part of Christ’s spiritual body which is the invisible Church.
Click to expand...
Well, according to the Church, it is both invisible and visible, just as Christ has both physical body and spirit. This seems to be backed up by many passages in the Bible,
 
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