Visitation from cohabitating nephew and his girlfriend

[Rence]

I just want to reply to a couple of comments that have been made about my husband and my marriage. Yes 99% of the time decisions of this magnitude are made together. No my husband is not in the habit of unilaterally making decisions in my marriage. I have been blessed with a very good and loving husband who 99.9% of the time is very attentive and respectful to my catholic beliefs. which I know many reading this will not believe me, But he is a very good, loving and respectful husband. In this situation my husband and I are at an impasse he feels strongly about welcoming his nephew and girlfriend into our home in their current living situation because as I said before my husband is from a different country. My husband is from Nepal. If you don’t know where Nepal is It’s a little country between India and China. Visits between my husband and his family are extremely rare. To show you my point. I’ve been together with my husband for 13 years. It was only last year that I’ve met my mother in law. I have 5 sisters in laws and one brother in law. And in 13 years I haven’t met a single one of them. I have numerous nieces and nephews on my husband’s side. This nephew who is visiting in May is the only one that I’ve met. Which like I said, I’ve only met him once for about 4 hours, 5 years ago. In the 13 years that my husband and I have been together my husband has only been back to Nepal twice. My son and I have not been to Nepal as a family. We just can’t afford it.

As you can see my husband’s visits with his family is extremely rare. This is an extremely rare visit that we are having with our nephew. It’s something that my husband is looking forward to because of the fact that he just does not get to see his family. That is why he is digging his heels with this. He does not want to disrespect his nephew by separating him from his girlfriend. My husband is not Catholic. He does not understand Catholic teaching on this. I just want to reiterate that I have a very good and loving husband. And a good marriage. So please don’t make unfair judgements about my husband or my marriage based on this post. My husband has his reasons for doing what he is doing. And I have mine. With this issue we are at an impasse

Millie, I wouldn’t begrudge him his wishes in this matter. He knows your feelings on it, and he doesn’t agree. It would be pointless to push it. If you’re asking if you’re in some way culpable for any sin, I’d say “no”. You have made your feelings and the reasons for them known and that’s all you can do. If you’re asking what you can do about it, well it doesn’t seem like you can do anything about it. He and his extended family are simply not Catholic and we can’t hold them responsible for following Catholic rules and laws. Just pray for them, and I pray you and your whole family have a great time during their visit

 

[Pax2u]

There are two sides to every story, and the OP"s husband’s feelings should be considered by her as well. Here we have a woman, who was not a practicing Catholic, who cohabitated and engaged in premarital sex with her now-husband, who is not Catholic, and whose relatives are not Catholic, who had an epiphany three years ago, and changed her ways. That doesn’t mean her husband is going to be on board. He is otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith. But that doesn’t mean he has to be on board himself with it, or that it should affect the relationship he has with his other family members. They’re ALL one big family.

Where does it say in her original post that he is “otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith”? And the original post stated " And I’ve asked my husband to discuss the sleeping situation during the visit with his nephew. But I’ve been told no, they’re going to be sleeping in the same bed. " If my husband replied to a sincere and strong concern of mine by “telling me no” there would be further discussion, believe me. The OP then posted saying that 99.9% of the time her husband was supportive of her and her opinions. A bit different than the original post.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#V

That being said - I am not there with you so it is difficult to know what to advise “practically” so that one is not themselves approving etc of objectively sinful circumstances --and one finds the right means to remedy the situation (no one may not get them a hotel or suggest that anther do so) one has to pray and think what to do next. It is difficult for me to know - not being there - what is possible for one to do (look - I cannot act against my conscience and permit them to stay together in my home -they are not married -I understand you do not see this but to ask me to do this would be to ask me to go against my conscience…). Whatever it is that one does do - one needs to use good means. Truth and love, and calmness in asserting what one does not want to be etc. Truth and love must always go together.

 

[Rence]

Rence;11877918:

There are two sides to every story, and the OP"s husband’s feelings should be considered by her as well. Here we have a woman, who was not a practicing Catholic, who cohabitated and engaged in premarital sex with her now-husband, who is not Catholic, and whose relatives are not Catholic, who had an epiphany three years ago, and changed her ways. That doesn’t mean her husband is going to be on board. He is otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith.

But that doesn’t mean he has to be on board himself with it, or that it should affect the relationship he has with his other family members. They’re ALL one big family.

Where does it say in her original post that he is “otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith”? And the original post stated " And I’ve asked my husband to discuss the sleeping situation during the visit with his nephew. But I’ve been told no, they’re going to be sleeping in the same bed. " If my husband replied to a sincere and strong concern of mine by “telling me no” there would be further discussion, believe me. The OP then posted saying that 99.9% of the time her husband was supportive of her and her opinions. A bit different than the original post.

Well first of all, the problem she brought to the original post was specifically about this visiting arrangement. No mention of other issues. Therefore, I gave my answer according to the information provided in that one post. Secondly, she clarified that he was otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith in her last post above.

If your husband were to reply to a sincere and strong concern of yours by telling you no, then your husband’s feelings are just as sincere and strong and should be considered as such. It doesn’t make one more right that the other. They’re both important. In any marriage, you’re going to win some arguments and you’re going to lose some. Turning one’s marriage upside down is never the answer, and changing the rules after the marriage will do exactly that, especially when it causes insult to one’s spouse’s family.

You can believe that if you feel strongly, so does your spouse, and your spouses feelings are just as important as your own. If it were your family, you’d want the same consideration that the OP’s husband wants. Treat others and you would have them treat you. Always a good way to live one’s life.

 

[Pax2u]

Pax2u;11877938:

Well first of all, the problem she brought to the original post was specifically about this visiting arrangement. No mention of other issues. Therefore, I gave my answer according to the information provided in that one post. Secondly, she clarified that he was otherwise supportive of her renewal of faith in her last post above.

If your husband were to reply to a sincere and strong concern of yours by telling you no, then your husband’s feelings are just as sincere and strong and should be considered as such. It doesn’t make one more right that the other. They’re both important. In any marriage, you’re going to win some arguments and you’re going to lose some. Turning one’s marriage upside down is never the answer, and changing the rules after the marriage will do exactly that, especially when it causes insult to one’s spouse’s family.

You can believe that if you feel strongly, so does your spouse, and your spouses feelings are just as important as your own. If it were your family, you’d want the same consideration that the OP’s husband wants. Treat others and you would have them treat you. Always a good way to live one’s life.

Not to be nitpicky (ha ha!) but if OP had said that 99.9% of the time her husband was supportive of her in her ORIGINAL post, then I would not have made the comment about him disregarding her opinion. And yes, a spouses’ feelings are important. However, when the spouse is WRONG then no, their opinion does not carry the same weight as yours. I don’t “feel” my Catholic faith…I believe it, and do my best to live it. You have to choose your battles in a marriage, thus I made the comment that she needed to decide where her non-negotiables are and act accordingly. Perhaps this isn’t one of them for her.

Also…this won’t end here in the relationship. If they do not share the same views on morality, similar situations will occur in the future…with other family visits, as their children become teenagers and adults, etc.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#V

That being said - I am not there with you so it is difficult to know what to advise “practically” so that one is not themselves approving etc of objectively sinful circumstances --and one finds the right means to remedy the situation (no one may not get them a hotel or suggest that anther do so) one has to pray and think what to do next. It is difficult for me to know - not being there - what is possible for one to do (honey- I cannot act against my conscience and permit them to stay together in my home -they are not married -I understand you do not see this but to ask me to do this would be to ask me to go against my conscience…).

Whatever it is that one does do - one needs to use good means. Truth and love, and calmness in asserting what one does not want to be etc. Truth and love must always go together.

 

[GraceSofia]

…We do have a 4 year old son

He won’t be aware of the situation then.

As you can see my husband’s visits with his family is extremely rare. This is an extremely rare visit that we are having with our nephew. It’s something that my husband is looking forward to because of the fact that he just does not get to see his family. That is why he is digging his heels with this. He does not want to disrespect his nephew by separating him from his girlfriend. My husband is not Catholic. He does not understand Catholic teaching on this. I just want to reiterate that I have a very good and loving husband. And a good marriage. So please don’t make unfair judgements about my husband or my marriage based on this post. My husband has his reasons for doing what he is doing. And I have mine. With this issue we are at an impasse

Millie, I’m going to go put my flame-proof suit on after I post this. Given that this situation is unlikely to occur again soon, your son is little enough to be completely unaware of any irregularity, this is your husband’s family and they are NOT Catholic, they will be hurt greatly if you appear to be rude by not welcoming him with joy, they will probably think Catholics are horrible nasty cold-blooded people who do not love their own family if you do not welcome him— I would welcome the nephew as warmly as possible, without judgment on his situation. You may be the only Catholic he and the girlfriend know. Until someone comes to know Christ, the “rules” don’t make much sense. Go for the love, and maybe some day, some year, that will be thing that makes your husband or the nephew or the girlfriend convert to Christ.

 

[Bookcat]

He won’t be aware of the situation then.

Millie, I’m going to go put my flame-proof suit on after I post this. Given that this situation is unlikely to occur again soon, your son is little enough to be completely unaware of any irregularity, this is your husband’s family and they are NOT Catholic, they will be hurt greatly if you appear to be rude by not welcoming him with joy, they will probably think Catholics are horrible nasty cold-blooded people who do not love their own family if you do not welcome him— I would welcome the nephew as warmly as possible, without judgment on his situation. You may be the only Catholic he and the girlfriend know. Until someone comes to know Christ, the “rules” don’t make much sense. Go for the love, and maybe some day, some year, that will be thing that makes your husband or the nephew or the girlfriend convert to Christ.

See the above post of mine.

I understand what your seeking -but such is not really the way.

Truth and love must go together. Yes certainly certainly be loving an warm to the persons. We must be very loving and respectful of persons. And gentle.

But one may not advise or praise etc objectively sinful actions (see CCC above).

Without the truth --it is not love.

Love the persons --but love them in truth not contrary to the truth. To love without truth is to not love authentically.

 

[Pax2u]

He won’t be aware of the situation then.

Millie, I’m going to go put my flame-proof suit on after I post this. Given that this situation is unlikely to occur again soon, your son is little enough to be completely unaware of any irregularity, this is your husband’s family and they are NOT Catholic, they will be hurt greatly if you appear to be rude by not welcoming him with joy, they will probably think Catholics are horrible nasty cold-blooded people who do not love their own family if you do not welcome him— I would welcome the nephew as warmly as possible, without judgment on his situation. You may be the only Catholic he and the girlfriend know. Until someone comes to know Christ, the “rules” don’t make much sense. Go for the love, and maybe some day, some year, that will be thing that makes your husband or the nephew or the girlfriend convert to Christ.

No need for the flame-proof suit from this direction GraceSofia…but I totally disagree with your post. Unless someone is not very intelligent, they are capable of understanding things that go against another’s religious beliefs. I don’t think a person living according to the tenets of their religion are “horrible, nasty cold-blooded people,” nor do I think an intelligent person who does not share those religious beliefs would think that, if you do not act that way in other areas of life.

 

[Bookcat]

A great quote for us all to meditate on from time to time in terms of the current difficulties and confusion in the society we live in --and our response (to be applied to so many things in life):

"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.

Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way."

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Caritas in Veritate)

 

[Rence]

See the above.

I understand what your seeking -but such is not really the way.

Truth and love must go together. Yes certainly certainly be loving an warm to the persons. But one may not advise or praise etc objectively sinful actions.

Without the truth --it is not love.

Love the persons --but love them in truth not contrary to the truth. To love without truth is to not love authentcally.

I agree that truth and love must go together. I believe that the OP satisfied this by her communication with her husband. But the OP is not in the position to advise her husband’s family of her thoughts on their living arrangements unless asked. She really has no business imposing her religious beliefs on them, anymore than any person of another religious affiliation has the business to impose their religious beliefs on her.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I always arrange separate sleeping quarters for unmarried guests and then don’t worry about the nighttime traffic after that. I’m their host, not a cop.

 

[Rence]

He won’t be aware of the situation then.

Millie, I’m going to go put my flame-proof suit on after I post this. Given that this situation is unlikely to occur again soon, your son is little enough to be completely unaware of any irregularity, this is your husband’s family and they are NOT Catholic, they will be hurt greatly if you appear to be rude by not welcoming him with joy, they will probably think Catholics are horrible nasty cold-blooded people who do not love their own family if you do not welcome him— I would welcome the nephew as warmly as possible, without judgment on his situation. You may be the only Catholic he and the girlfriend know. Until someone comes to know Christ, the “rules” don’t make much sense. Go for the love, and maybe some day, some year, that will be thing that makes your husband or the nephew or the girlfriend convert to Christ.

I agree with you here. It’s all good and fine to claim that everyone should be familiar with the Church’s rules and laws, and require them to submit to them simply because they ‘know of them’, but there’s a big difference between knowing something and knowing something to be true. They’re not stupid, they’re not children. You don’t just tell someone a rule of the Church and say, “well okay, they know it, now they have to follow it”. They have to believe it.

After all, we all know of other religions and know some of their rules and laws, but we don’t believe them — because we have our own religion and follow those rules and laws. Like Catholics don’t swallow hook, line and sinker, other religions and their rules and laws, others aren’t going to come to know the Church like practicing Catholics do. It’s unreasonable to expect that. Knowing something and believing that it’s true is completely different.

So I totally agree with you. When we encounter those who do not share our religious beliefs we should be living examples to our faith. Coming down on people with hellfire and brimstone is not going to lead them to the Church. Neither will insulting them. Neither will claiming that their relationship and lifestyle is immoral and that they are sinning. That’s very insultive and pretty rude - especially when uninvited.

Showing them and teaching them by example will be more successful. We should always treat others like we are their first or only encounter with the Church. Do we want those people to love or hate the Church? There is often opportunity for meaningful dialog to teach about the Church’s teachings. The OP simply as to wait for it…and not by pouncing her guests (and her husband’s family) like a lioness on prey as soon as the walk in the door either.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I just want to reply to a couple of comments that have been made about my husband and my marriage. Yes 99% of the time decisions of this magnitude are made together. No my husband is not in the habit of unilaterally making decisions in my marriage. I have been blessed with a very good and loving husband who 99.9% of the time is very attentive and respectful to my catholic beliefs. which I know many reading this will not believe me, But he is a very good, loving and respectful husband. In this situation my husband and I are at an impasse he feels strongly about welcoming his nephew and girlfriend into our home in their current living situation because as I said before my husband is from a different country. My husband is from Nepal. If you don’t know where Nepal is It’s a little country between India and China. Visits between my husband and his family are extremely rare. To show you my point. I’ve been together with my husband for 13 years. It was only last year that I’ve met my mother in law. I have 5 sisters in laws and one brother in law. And in 13 years I haven’t met a single one of them. I have numerous nieces and nephews on my husband’s side. This nephew who is visiting in May is the only one that I’ve met. Which like I said, I’ve only met him once for about 4 hours, 5 years ago. In the 13 years that my husband and I have been together my husband has only been back to Nepal twice. My son and I have not been to Nepal as a family. We just can’t afford it.

As you can see my husband’s visits with his family is extremely rare. This is an extremely rare visit that we are having with our nephew. It’s something that my husband is looking forward to because of the fact that he just does not get to see his family. That is why he is digging his heels with this. He does not want to disrespect his nephew by separating him from his girlfriend. My husband is not Catholic. He does not understand Catholic teaching on this. I just want to reiterate that I have a very good and loving husband. And a good marriage. So please don’t make unfair judgements about my husband or my marriage based on this post. My husband has his reasons for doing what he is doing. And I have mine. With this issue we are at an impasse

From my understanding, and from my wife’s nepalese coworker. It is the nephew that is being rude. While Nepal mirrors the world and cohabitation is on the rise, it is still not the norm, nor is it seen as something you would impose on a relative. The only disrespect here is the young nephew shaming a family member.

 

[Pax2u]

I always arrange separate sleeping quarters for unmarried guests and then don’t worry about the nighttime traffic after that. I’m their host, not a cop.

Burt…this is a good idea. Thanks for the post!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I always arrange separate sleeping quarters for unmarried guests and then don’t worry about the nighttime traffic after that. I’m their host, not a cop.

 

[Bookcat]

I agree that truth and love must go together. I believe that the OP satisfied this by her communication with her husband. But the OP is not in the position to advise her husband’s family of her thoughts on their living arrangements unless asked. She really has no business imposing her religious beliefs on them, anymore than any person of another religious affiliation has the business to impose their religious beliefs on her.

We are talking about their coming and staying in her HOME.

She has every business not to permit such. See CCC above.

(And otherwise -yes she can in the right moment discuss the harm that such an arrangement involves -and can propose the truth regarding human love. And above all propose the true life that is in Jesus)

 

[Rence]

From my understanding, and from my wife’s nepalese coworker. It is the nephew that is being rude. While Nepal mirrors the world and cohabitation is on the rise, it is still not the norm, nor is it seen as something you would impose on a relative. The only disrespect here is the young nephew shaming a family member.

OP, correct me if I’m mistaken, but there is no evidence to indicate from the OP’s posts that the nephew knows anything about what the OP and her husband have discussed. This is between the OP and her husband.

And again, when marrying a non-Catholic or even a non-practicing Catholic, you’ll win some and you’ll lose some. She’s going to have to be the one compromise this time.

 

[Bookcat]

CCC as quoted above:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

–keep all of that in mind.

 

[Rence]

I always arrange separate sleeping quarters for unmarried guests and then don’t worry about the nighttime traffic after that. I’m their host, not a cop.

The OP’s husband already overruled that one.