Visitation from cohabitating nephew and his girlfriend

[Rence]

We are talking about their coming and staying in her HOME.

She has every business not to permit such. See CCC above.

Actually, no she doesn’t. It’s not her home. It’s THEIR home. And when marrying a non-Catholic, sometimes you have to compromise. I can understand the OP’s husband wanting to see his family and inviting them to stay with them. The OP will have nothing but turmoil if she begrudges him this visit. Period. If she’s smart, she’ll drop it. She’s already made her concerns known. She is in no way consenting to the arrangement, she is, otoh, deferring to her husband (who is not Catholic) in this matter.

Remember OP, that YOU have to live with your decisions and how they affect your family as a result. No one here does.

(And otherwise -yes she can in the right moment discuss the harm that such an arrangement involves -and can propose the truth regarding human love. And above all propose the true life that is in Jesus)

If she sees an opportunity, and they ask, yes

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m not even sure the OPs husband is Catholic. She said he respects “her” Catholic beliefs… In this case and being that my religion demands I do not cooperate or give scandal with sin, I would refuse. If the husband has a problem with this then perhaps the husband can explain to his nephew why his wife will not be staying with them during the visit.

At the very least perhaps the OP can incessantly ask when the wedding is for the whole trip.

“You guys are so cute together why are you not married?”
“Is she not the marrying type?”
“in my faith, two people that share the love you do (and bed) should be married” “Have you ever thought about that?”
“Do your parents want you to get married” (It is my understanding that many cohabitating couples in Kathmandu hide it from the parents.)"

A couple of rounds of uncomfortable questions and they will get the hint. And the husband will learn to back his wife next time!

 

[Bookcat]

Actually, no she doesn’t. It’s not her home. It’s THEIR home. And when marrying a non-Catholic, sometimes you have to compromise.

Yes she does. It is her home. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin.

A spouse might sin and do what one does not want them to do - it may happen -but the other spouse cannot say “ok it is fine to do that sin”.

CCC as quoted above:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

–keep all of that in mind.

 

[Rence]

I’m not even sure the OPs husband is Catholic. She said he respects “her” Catholic beliefs…

No, the OP’s husband, and the OP’s husband’s family are all not Catholic.

In this case and being that my religion demands I do not cooperate or give scandal with sin, I would refuse. If the husband has a problem with this then perhaps the husband can explain to his nephew why his wife will not be staying with them during the visit.

That’s of course an option, that will cause turmoil between the OP and her husband (and his family). Good luck with that.

At the very least perhaps the OP can incessantly ask when the wedding is for the whole trip.

Good luck with that one too

A couple of rounds of uncomfortable questions and they will get the hint. And the husband will learn to back his wife next time!

A couple rounds of being blatantly rude to her husband’s family, and her husband directly, and the OP will be at major odds with her husband. Not a smart thing for any wife to do if she values her marriage

I think at this point, the best advice is to have the OP speak with her priest. I guarantee, one with a lick of common sense won’t recommend she do something to endanger her relationship with her husband with how seriously the Church regards the Sacrament of Marriage.

 

[Rence]

Yes she does. It is her home. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin. Period.

It’s not her home. It’s their home. Something to think about when someone marries a person of a different (or no) faith. And it’s not her sin to compromise. She’s already voiced her concerns and fulfilled her obligation.

CCC as quoted above:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

The OP can rest easy. She is not guilty of any of the above. She has not participated directly or volunteered in this arrangement. She has argued against it, in fact. She has not ordered, advised, praised, or approved this arrangement. She has argued against it. She has disclosed, and she has tried to hinder, this arrangement. She was overruled by her husband, who is an equal party in this marriage. And she is in no way protecting evil-doers. She can pray though, for her husband’s conversion, and for her husband’s family’s conversion. That probably would be the most productive thing rather than create a rift in her marriage.

 

[Bookcat]

Actually, no she doesn’t. It’s not her home. It’s THEIR home. And when marrying a non-Catholic, sometimes you have to compromise.

Yes she does. It is her home. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin.

A spouse might sin and do what one does not want them to do - it may happen -but the other spouse cannot say “ok it is fine to do that sin”.

A spouse may not be able to prevent such from happening after doing what they judge they can do to prevent such. But they may not say “ok that is fine.”

CCC as quoted above:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

 

[Pax2u]

A couple rounds of being blatantly rude to her husband’s family, and her husband directly, and the OP will be at major odds with her husband. Not a smart thing for any wife to do if she values her marriage

I think at this point, the best advice is to have the OP speak with her priest. I guarantee, one with a lick of common sense won’t recommend she do something to endanger her relationship with her husband with how seriously the Church regards the Sacrament of Marriage.

I think there may be future damage to the relationship either way…the husband is damaging the relationship by his insistence on allowing what the wife does not want. Again, this issue will not go away…it will just resurrect in different situations in the future.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

The OP’s husband already overruled that one.

I read the OP and I don’t see that he did. Whether they see any difference between asking a guest to sleep on the couch and just letting the guests sort things out for themselves is up to them. Just an idea.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Yes she does. It is her home. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin.

Take a breath.

Everyone involved is an adult and can make their own choices. The visitors may not even be Christian.

The OP is risking alienating her husband and his family for the sake of enforcing her own moral laws. I don’t find that a wise course.

 

[Rence]

Yes she does. It is her home. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin.

Bookcat, you know very well it’s not her home. It’s their home. And you know very well she is not responsible for his actions, only her own. He’s not forcing her to do anything against her conscience, rather he is acting on his own conscience. We are not responsible for bending the will of others. We are responsible for our own actions, and of course she has discussed with him the Church’s teaching in this matter. No good will come of insulting and alienating her husband and his family, while praying for them will. She never consented to it, and she made her views (and the Church’s teachings) known. Her husband has every right to reject the Church’s teachings, he is not Catholic.

It would be entirely different if both parties were Catholic, or if the OP was a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage. But that’s not what happened. You can’t change the rules after the marriage, it doesn’t work.

If she wants trouble in her marriage she will continue to fight with her husband over this, raise a big stink and insult her husband and his family. If she wishes to continue having a husband that is respectful of HER decision to follow the rules of the Church, she will relent to his wishes in this matter. It’s not the first time a Catholic has and even Catholic saints who were married to non-Catholics. That in now way means she accepts it. It just means she can’t force him to follow Catholic rules and laws.

Again, the OP should seek the guidance of her priest.

 

[Bookcat]

Take a breath.

Everyone involved is an adult and can make their own choices. The visitors may not even be Christian.

The OP is risking alienating her husband and his family for the sake of enforcing her own moral laws. I don’t find that a wise course.

I breath fine thanks.

What I noted is the case. See the Catechism above.

Ones choices must be only adult–but more so be Christian. One may not violate ones conscience. The couple on their end -must respect the views of their host.

Yes one must love them -most certainly. But must love with truth.

One may not advise or praise etc objectively sinful actions (see CCC above).

Without the truth --it is not love.

Love the persons --but love them in truth not contrary to the truth. To love without truth is to not love authentically.

 

[Rence]

I read the OP and I don’t see that he did. Whether they see any difference between asking a guest to sleep on the couch and just letting the guests sort things out for themselves is up to them. Just an idea.

You just missed it is all:

I’m catholic. My husband and his side of the family are not Catholic. My 25 year old nephew, on my husband’s side, and his girlfriend are planning a visit to my home for 2 nights in May. My husband doesn’t see anything wrong with his nephews living arrangement. I asked my husband if the couple can can sleep in separate bed’s. He said “no, they’re nearly married.” I then asked my husband if he can ask his nephew to sleep on the couch. He said “No. They sleep together already and it is none of our business”

 

[Rence]

I think there may be future damage to the relationship either way…the husband is damaging the relationship by his insistence on allowing what the wife does not want. Again, this issue will not go away…it will just resurrect in different situations in the future.

Only if the OP allows it. These people are transient. If she wants her husband not to be transient, she will not begrudge him this visit, that means so much to him. Yeah, something to think about when one marries another of a different faith.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat, you know very well it’s not her home. It’s their home. And you know very well she is not responsible for his actions, only her own. He’s not forcing her to do anything against her conscience, rather he is acting on his own conscience. We are not responsible for bending the will of others. We are responsible for our own actions, and of course she has discussed with him the Church’s teaching in this matter. No good will come of insulting and alienating her husband and his family, while praying for them will. She never consented to it, and she made her views (and the Church’s teachings) knowed. Her husband has every right to reject the Church’s teachings, he is not Catholic.

It would be entirely different if both parties were Catholic, or if the OP was a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage. But that’s not what happened. You can’t change the rules after the marriage, it doesn’t work.

If she wants trouble in her marriage she will continue to fight with her husband over this, raise a big stink and insult her husband and his family. If she wishes to continue having a husband that is respectful of HER decision to follow the rules of the Church, she will relent to his wishes in this matter. It’s not the first time a Catholic has and even Catholic saints who were married to non-Catholics. That in now way means she accepts it. It just means she can’t force him to follow Catholic rules and laws.

Again, the OP should seek the guidance of her priest.

It is her home. By being the wife there - it is her home too. She very much has a right as I noted. A spouse may not force a spouse to act against her conscience.

There cannot be any compromise with sin.

A spouse might sin and do what one does not want them to do - it may happen -but the other spouse cannot say “ok it is fine to do that sin”.

A spouse may not be able to prevent such from happening after doing what they judge they can do to prevent such. But they may not say “ok that is fine.”

CCC as quoted above:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

Tis about following and living Truth.

as also noted above:

I am not there with you so it is difficult to know what to advise “practically” so that one is not themselves approving etc of objectively sinful circumstances --and one finds the right means to remedy the situation (no one may not get them a hotel or suggest that anther do so) one has to pray and think what to do next. It is difficult for me to know - not being there - what is possible for one to do (honey- I cannot act against my conscience and permit them to stay together in my home -they are not married -I understand you do not see this but to ask me to do this would be to ask me to go against my conscience…).

Whatever it is that one does do - one needs to use good means. Truth and love, and calmness in asserting what one does not want to be etc. Truth and love must always go together.

 

[Pax2u]

Only if the OP allows it. These people are transient. If she wants her husband not to be transient, she will not begrudge him this visit, that means so much to him. Yeah, something to think about when one marries another of a different faith.

Yes but Rence…the basic problem…of not sharing moral values…won’t go away. What’s going to happen when someone else comes to visit, when their children start dating, if they decide to cohabitate, etc. Where the nephew and girlfriend sleep during their 2 night visit is not the real problem…the real problem is that this couple has two very opposite ideas of morality, and it will continue to be a problem in different circumstances and with different people in the future.

 

[Rence]

Take a breath.

Everyone involved is an adult and can make their own choices. The visitors may not even be Christian.

The OP is risking alienating her husband and his family for the sake of enforcing her own moral laws. I don’t find that a wise course.

Neither do I, and I think the OP knows that as well. Being Catholic doesn’t mean controlling the actions of others.

Again, it would be different if the OP and her hubby were both Catholic. It would be different if the OP was a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage. It would be different if the OP and her hubby didn’t cohabitate and have sex before marriage. But you can’t change the rules after the marriage. He doesn’t deserve that, and neither does she. They’re going to have to compromise like every one else in a successful marriage. That means you lose some and you win some. She lost this one. Move on and rise from it. What you do will reflect on the Church in these folks’ eyes.

 

[cheese_sdc]

I breath fine thanks.

Ones choices must be only adult–but more so be Christian. One may not violate ones conscience. The couple on their end -must respect the views of their host.

I’m glad to hear your respiratory processes are working well.

I don’t think the situation is as black and white as you’d like.

But it’s the OP’s situation to handle and she can certainly handle in the way you wish. I think that the potential negative fallout will far out weigh the perceived positives of scrupulously enforcing a morality that isn’t shared by anyone else in the household.

The “sin” is not hers. She voiced her opinion, the husband declined, and other options will be seen as an insult.

But that’s just my :twocents:, from someone who has been there and done that, from the other side of the equation…

 

[Bookcat]

Being Catholic doesn’t mean controlling the actions of others.

.

Not talking about controlling the actions of others.

But of having the right to say “not in my home”.

And that one may not approve etc of the wrongful actions of others.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Again, it would be different if the OP and her hubby were both Catholic. It would be different if the OP was a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage. It would be different if the OP and her hubby didn’t cohabitate and have sex before marriage. But you can’t change the rules after the marriage. He doesn’t deserve that, and neither does she. They’re going to have to compromise like every one else in a successful marriage. That means you lose some and you win some. She lost this one. Move on and rise from it. What you do will reflect on the Church in these folks’ eyes.

:clapping::clapping:

Rence said it better than I did.

 

[Rence]

Yes but Rence…the basic problem…of not sharing moral values…won’t go away. What’s going to happen when someone else comes to visit, when their children start dating, if they decide to cohabitate, etc. Where the nephew and girlfriend sleep during their 2 night visit is not the real problem…the real problem is that this couple has two very opposite ideas of morality, and it will continue to be a problem in different circumstances and with different people in the future.

The OP would have more leverage if the visitors weren’t family, and if they didn’t live a world away, with little chance of seeing the OP’s husband again. This one is truly not worth the fight. She has to pick her battles. You can’t insult your spouse’s family without serious ramifications. That’s a given.

And you’re right, they don’t share the same moral values. Something to consider when one marries another of a different faith (or no faith).

But realize ya’ll would be singing a different tune if the there was a role reversal and the one with the “new” religion in the relationship was Muslim or Jewish, etc, or even no religion. Her re-connection to Catholicism is new to the marriage and changed the dynamics between them. Right or wrong, she’s the one who turned everything upside down, not him. If she wants her marriage to survive it, or if she wants her husband’s conversion, she’s going to have to tread lightly and that’s the way it is. You know that’s true. Over time, she will win some arguments and she will lose some. She lost this one.