Visiting An Orthodox Church

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Of course I visit one almost every Saturday for evening Vespers.
 
If you attend an Orthodox Church on a Sunday, it will not count towards your Sunday obligation. However, an Eastern Byzantine Church is part of the the Catholic faith and their services can fulfill our Sunday needs. You may also receive the Eucharist there. It is a beautiful liturgy which is sung pretty much in its entirity. They also receive Communion differently than we do. None the less - beautiful.😉
 
If you attend an Orthodox Church on a Sunday, it will not count towards your Sunday obligation.
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I don’t agree. Anyone visiting another venerable Church of Apostolic Succession with a valid priesthood, hierarchy, and Sacraments for educational purposes should not need to incur this sort of negative sense of obligation to attend Mass again on the same day, especially if it involves travel at any significant distance.

From Orientale Lumen by the late Holy Father:
Since, in fact, we believe that the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches is an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church, the first need for Catholics is to be familiar with that tradition, so as to be nourished by it and to encourage the process of unity in the best way possible for each.
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Our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters are very conscious of being the living bearers of this tradition, **together with our Orthodox brothers and sisters **. **The members of the Catholic Church of the Latin tradition must also be fully acquainted with this treasure **and thus feel, with the Pope, a passionate longing that the full manifestation of the Church’s catholicity be restored to the Church and to the world, expressed not by a single tradition, and still less by one community in opposition to the other; and that we too may be granted a full taste of the divinely revealed and undivided heritage of the universal Church which is preserved and grows in the life of the Churches of the East as in those of the West.
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I seriously doubt any canonist would maintain that in the light of this Magisterial document as well as others Ut Unum Sint, Unitatis Redintegratio, Slavorum Apostoli, Orientalium Ecclesiarum, among others] that after experiencing “an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church”, including witnessing a valid Eucharistic Liturgy and hearing the lectionary readings according to that particular Church, that any scrupulous sense of “obligation” would remain.
 
From the Code of Canon Law
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.
Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.
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I can’t see how attending liturgy at a church where they hold the belief that the Catholic Church is in serious doctrinal error, somehow fulfills ones Sunday obligation. You certainly can’t receive communion.
 
An Orthodox Church uses a “Catholic rite” as laid down by the Latin code of canon law, so I don’t see how it wouldn’t fulfill Sunday obligation.
 
I can’t see how attending liturgy at a church where they hold the belief that the Catholic Church is in serious doctrinal error, somehow fulfills ones Sunday obligation. You certainly can’t receive communion.
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If you are in serious sin you couldn’t receive Communion, either, at any Mass, but you don’t have to attend Mass again.

Regarding the myth of “serious doctrinal error”, first of all the mutual anathemas between Constantinople and Rome have been lifted. Also please refer to the Magisterial document Unitatis Redintegratio:
These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments and above all, by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, **whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy. **Therefore some worship in common (communicatio in sacris), **given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not only possible but to be encouraged. **
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Again, I do not believe any canonist or Latin bishop will demand that “obligation” is not met by attending an Orthodox church for educational reasons on a Sunday. This is far different from attending a Protestant or non-Christian service where there is no priesthood, no Apostolic Succession, and thus no Sacrifice.

I furthermore don’t think the intent of the canons was to conflict with Magisterial teachings and directives (some of which came after the Code was promulgated, such as *Ut Unum Sint * and Orientale Lumen).

One can attend knowing that this is an ancient and venerable ritual tradition of Apostolic origin and that it is not only not prohibited, but encouraged, by documents of the Council and the Holy Father.

Again, from * Unitatis Redintegratio *:
** The very rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern Churches should be known, venerated, preserved and cherished by all.** They must recognize that this is of supreme importance for the faithful preservation of the fullness of Christian tradition, and for bringing about reconciliation between Eastern and Western Christians.
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You can’t know that rich heritage unless you experience it.

To reinforce the point Formosus made above,
An Orthodox Church uses a “Catholic rite” as laid down by the Latin code of canon law, so I don’t see how it wouldn’t fulfill Sunday obligation.
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this again from * Unitatis Redintegratio*:
All this heritage of spirituality and liturgy, of discipline and theology, in its various traditions, **this holy synod declares to belong to the full Catholic and apostolic character of the Church. **We thank God that many Eastern children of the Catholic Church, who preserve this heritage, and wish to express it more faithfully and completely in their lives, are already living in full communion with their brethren who follow the tradition of the West.
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Since the Council has declared the rite you will be attending to belong to the “full Catholic and apostolic character of the Church” you should not feel scrupulosity regarding “obligation”.
 
Seamus_L said:
I can’t see how attending liturgy at a church where they hold the belief that the Catholic Church is in serious doctrinal error, somehow fulfills ones Sunday obligation. You certainly can’t receive communion.
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It doesn’t.
 
Formosus said:
An Orthodox Church uses a “Catholic rite” as laid down by the Latin code of canon law, so I don’t see how it wouldn’t fulfill Sunday obligation.
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Oh, ok…so does that mean I can attend an independent, sedevacantist chapel and fulfill my obligation?
 
There are some very practical reasons why it wouldn’t be a good idea to regularly attend an Orthodox Church. For starters, you would be associating with people who hold varying degrees of hostility towards the Catholic Church. Some like the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia are staunchly anti-Catholic.
 
Seamus_L said:
There are some very practical reasons why it wouldn’t be a good idea to regularly attend an Orthodox Church. For starters, you would be associating with people who hold varying degrees of hostility towards the Catholic Church. Some like the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia are staunchly anti-Catholic.
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On the contrary, I found the priest at the local ROCOR parish quite charitable. He grew up Catholic and had nothing bad to say about Catholics at all other than there are disagreements between the two churches with some doctrinal and ecclesiastical issues, but both are true apostolic churches. The only church he criticized are the various Protestant communities. Perhaps he is an exception, I don’t know. I’m sure not everyone at the parish felt the same way, but I did hear the term “Purgatory” used to describe the intermediate state by one of the deacons. There are definitely some priests who are very hostile, but I have encountered few. There are just as many Catholics who are hostile to Orthodox believers, so it cuts both ways.

If you want to avoid the uncertainty of Sunday obligations, just go on a different day.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Diak said:
I don’t agree. Anyone visiting another venerable Church of Apostolic Succession with a valid priesthood, hierarchy, and Sacraments for educational purposes should not need to incur this sort of negative sense of obligation to attend Mass again on the same day, especially if it involves travel at any significant distance.
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Is there really any place within the U.S. that there is an Orthodox Church, but *not any *Catholic Churches of any of the Catholic Rites around that someone would have to drive a significant distance to get to a Catholic Church?

I have been in places where the reverse is true, but don’t believe that there is a place where an Orthodox Church is significantly closer than a Catholic Church in the U.S., maybe in Russia or Greece perhaps, but not here.
 
One other issue:

Catholics are permitted by Catholic Canon Law to receive communion in Orthodox Parishes in certain circumstances; The Orthodox seldom (but not “never”) permit Catholics to receive. It depends upon the pastor and bishop, and the circumstances.

Some Orthodox bishops have regulated it; others have specifically avoided regulating it. (HG Nikolai of Alaska notably refused to issue regulations, putting him at odds with a vocal and radical part of his diocesan sobor.)

I have been communed at an OCA parish with the informed consent of the pastor, and invited to at a 2nd. Likewise, I was communed at a Coptic Orthodox parish, with the informed consent of the pastor. (Said CO priest was an old chum of my BC pastor! My pastor knew I’d been shriven before I made it back home!)

For Catholics of the Eastern Churches, the separate canon law for the Eastern Catholics permits more latitude in both attending orthodox parishes, and in fulfilling one’s obligation, and a more relaxed obligation standard as well. (Specific EC Churches may impose increases to the obligation, as has the BCMCoP aka the Ruthenian Church; the standard for Ruthenians in the US is the same as for Latins, with the exception of which holy days are obligatory.)

Also, the situation is VERY different for Syrian Catholics and Syrian Orthodox parishes, and for Chaldean Catholics and Assyrian Church of the East Parishes, and Armenian Catholics and Armenian Orthodox, due to the communion agreements in force; the obligation is fulfilled, and the members on both sides are permitted by both sides to be communed by the other side.

As for the Sedes… Not all have valid ordinations. Caveat emptor. But the SSPX fall in the same canonical status, as does the Polish National Catholic Church.
 
SingleMomMonica said:
Is there really any place within the U.S. that there is an Orthodox Church, but *not any *Catholic Churches of any of the Catholic Rites around that someone would have to drive a significant distance to get to a Catholic Church?
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Perhaps someplace in the Alaskan countryside?

Alaska was part of Russia for a while.
 
Kielbasi said:
Perhaps someplace in the Alaskan countryside?

Alaska was part of Russia for a while.
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I was born there and am still finding it hard to believe although I suppose there is a remote possibility…
 
Kielbasi said:
Perhaps someplace in the Alaskan countryside?
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Try the southern half of the state! A lot of villages are single-parish places… Either you go, or you don’t. A significant chunk are RO, and another significant chunk are RC.
Kielbasi said:
Alaska was part of Russia for a while.
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Until shortly after the US Civil War. When Russia sold it to the US.

Alaska is nearly 20% Russian Orthodox, and nearly 25% Roman Catholic.

Plenty of coastal villages in southwest, southeast, and southcentral have significant Russian influence and the only church is Russian Orthodox; most of those are OCA.

Heck, Russian Village School didn’t start teaching all subjects in English until 1986! (And Russian Village still has some streets labeled in Cyrillic, ca 1860’s Russo-Cyrillic, to be precise.)
 
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