Visiting An Orthodox Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicLife
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
SingleMomMonica said:
Is there really any place within the U.S. that there is an Orthodox Church, but *not any *Catholic Churches of any of the Catholic Rites around that someone would have to drive a significant distance to get to a Catholic Church?

I have been in places where the reverse is true, but don’t believe that there is a place where an Orthodox Church is significantly closer than a Catholic Church in the U.S., maybe in Russia or Greece perhaps, but not here.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are referring to (the way of the pilgrim)there is more than one kind of orthodox, the older varity were strict—and no one is going to search you to see if you believe that the word was made flesh or not…I dont think God would hold it against you , but you would still have to deal with apolostic succession, because that is what you profess…dont you?
 
I have been in places where the reverse is true, but don’t believe that there is a place where an Orthodox Church is significantly closer than a Catholic Church in the U.S.,
I know of several towns in the USA (including where my father lies buried) where there is an Orthodox Church, but not a Catholic one.
 
Diak said:
The Western Rite - proof that uniatism is not the sole property of the Catholic Church. Thanks for the reminder.
Click to expand...
It’s already been discussed. WRO is not the same. For starters, there are no Western Rite Orthodox bishops, and WRO is much more small-scale. There is no creation of parallel Western jurisdictions.
 
Patchunky said:
FDR,

I went to Vespers with friends tp Frederika’s parish; they were having a dinner with Vespers afterwards. It was during Great Lent and they were having a guest speaker on ikonography.

My friends took a veggie cassarole with a crumb topping. Not knowing my friends or me,Frederika gave us the 3rd degree including what was the dish made with. When she found out that there was veggie oil in the crumb topping, she went into the kitchen, got a 24" x 24" piece of brown wrapping and a magic marker and wrote NOT A FAST DISH on it and placed it OVER TOP of the veggie cassarole my friends brought.

At this point in time, I picked up the cassarole, looked at my friends and said, I"m outta here and we left. Thank God I was driving so they had to go with me.

I find your story about the shrimp hysterical 'cause don’t they consider shrimp forbidden during Fasting times??👍
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think it would have been better if she had simply accepted what you brought. My last priest said it’s a greater sin to refuse hospitality than it is to break the fast.

Shrimp is not forbidden because shrimp do not have a bony spine.
 
It was an Armenian who used his cigarette lighter in impatience, after which Patriarch Irineos blew out the Armenian’s candle several times. Prior to there was argument over precedence in the ritual.
 
If you don’t get Ghosty’s allusion, then here’s a link.
Apparently the OO celebrant does enter with a lighter. You might have also tried asking Ghosty; I bet he’d say more than “Figure it out”.

Question for Orthodox - both OO and EO - posters:
Is regarding the Holy fire as miraculous in origin a “de fide” matter for Orthodox? Or is this matter in the realm of pious legend? Are there synodal statements from any church that declare the origin of the fire as miraculous?
 
When Patriarch Irineos fought his corner by twice blowing out the Armenian’s candle, the Armenian felt obliged to resort to a shameful expedient to obtain some Holy Fire.

“In this worst situation I had to use my emergency light, a cigarette lighter,” he later admitted.
Click to expand...
It’s a fairly well documented incident, and I figured Madaglan would catch the reference. I’m Armenian, so this event pops immediately to my head whenever the topic comes up. 🙂
Is regarding the Holy fire as miraculous in origin a “de fide” matter for Orthodox? Or is this matter in the realm of pious legend? Are there synodal statements from any church that declare the origin of the fire as miraculous?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if there have been Synodal statements on the matter, but it’s certainly not anything close to a “de fide” matter. There’s quite a bit of skepticism over the issue, though it’s not always brought up in discussions. At least one Russian Orthodox Bishop, Bp. Porphyrius of the 19th century, recorded that the Holy Fire is actually lit from a lamp within the Holy Sepulcre. 🤷

For what it’s worth, a Latin Pope declared it to be a fraud in the 13th century; that’s the closest I know of to an “official” pronouncement of any kind on the matter.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
It’s a fairly well documented incident, and I figured Madaglan would catch the reference. I’m Armenian, so this event pops immediately to my head whenever the topic comes up. 🙂

I don’t know if there have been Synodal statements on the matter, but it’s certainly not anything close to a “de fide” matter. There’s quite a bit of skepticism over the issue, though it’s not always brought up in discussions. At least one Russian Orthodox Bishop, Bp. Porphyrius of the 19th century, recorded that the Holy Fire is actually lit from a lamp within the Holy Sepulcre. 🤷

For what it’s worth, a Latin Pope declared it to be a fraud in the 13th century; that’s the closest I know of to an “official” pronouncement of any kind on the matter.

Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
Here is what Pope Urban said of the Holy Fire in 1096 when he was urging Western Christendom to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims:

"Of holy Jerusalem, brethren, we dare not speak, for we are exceedingly afraid and ashamed to speak of it. This very city, in which, as you all know, Christ Himself suffered for us, because our sins demanded it, has been reduced to the pollution of paganism and, I say it to our disgrace, withdrawn from the service of God. Such is the heap of reproach upon us who have so much deserved it! Who now serves the church of the Blessed Mary in the valley of Josaphat, in which church she herself was buried in body? But why do we pass over the Temple of Solomon, nay of the Lord, in which the barbarous nations placed their idols contrary to law, human and divine? Of the Lord’s Sepulchre we have refrained from speaking, since some of you with your own eyes have seen to what abominations it has been given over. The Turks violently took from it the offerings which you brought there for alms in such vast amounts, and, in addition, they scoffed much and often 'at Your religion. And yet in that place (I say only what you already know) rested the Lord; there He died for us; there He was buried. How precious would be the longed for, incomparable place of the Lord’s burial, even if God failed there to perform the yearly miracle! For in the days of His Passion all the lights in the Sepulchre and round about in the church, which have been extinguished, are relighted by divine command. Whose heart is so stony, brethren, that it is not touched by so great a miracle? Believe me, that man is bestial and senseless whose heart such divinely manifest grace does not move to faith!

fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html
 
Well, the Holy Fire invariably appears on Orthodox Easter.
Actually, Orthodox Holy Saturday.
Is regarding the Holy fire as miraculous in origin a “de fide” matter for Orthodox? Or is this matter in the realm of pious legend? Are there synodal statements from any church that declare the origin of the fire as miraculous?
Orthodox co not think in these terms. If it’s the tradition of the Church, it’s sufficient.

I’ve met too many people who have been to Jerusalem for the Holy Fire on Holy Saturday to doubt its veracity.
For what it’s worth, a Latin Pope declared it to be a fraud in the 13th century; that’s the closest I know of to an “official” pronouncement of any kind on the matter.
And, of course, there is no way this pope would have been biased, is there?
 
And, of course, there is no way this pope would have been biased, is there?
Click to expand...
That’s kind of beside the point, isn’t it? The point is that the ban against the Holy Fire is still technically in force among at least Latin Catholics.

Both sides have bias on this issue. It’s not as if this supposed miracle has ever been given a solid testing, and the reports of those who have investigated (such as the aforementioned Orthodox Bishop) tend to be second hand.

When the miracle is actually allowed to be examined, we can make an unbiased judgement on the matter. Until then it’s just a rallying point for those who believe, and a spectacle for those who don’t. 🤷

I recommend we get back to the original topic, though. 🙂

Peace and God bless!
 
Is regarding the Holy fire as miraculous in origin a “de fide” matter for Orthodox? Or is this matter in the realm of pious legend? Are there synodal statements from any church that declare the origin of the fire as miraculous?

Cluny;4845825
Orthodox co not think in these terms. If it’s the tradition of the Church, it’s sufficient.

Of course they don’t, hence the quotation marks. But what are you saying: what is the tradition, who says, and what is that sufficient for?

Cluny;4845825
I’ve met too many people who have been to Jerusalem for the Holy Fire on Holy Saturday to doubt its veracity.

No one doubts the presence of the fire. What has been doubted, even by Orthodox hierarchs apparently, is the miraculous origin of the fire. Of the “too many people” that you mention, who can give eye-witness testimony on that point?
 
Cluny said:
Well, the Holy Fire invariably appears on Orthodox Easter.
Actually, Orthodox Holy Saturday.
Is regarding the Holy fire as miraculous in origin a “de fide” matter for Orthodox? Or is this matter in the realm of pious legend? Are there synodal statements from any church that declare the origin of the fire as miraculous?
Orthodox co not think in these terms. If it’s the tradition of the Church, it’s sufficient.

I’ve met too many people who have been to Jerusalem for the Holy Fire on Holy Saturday to doubt its veracity.
For what it’s worth, a Latin Pope declared it to be a fraud in the 13th century; that’s the closest I know of to an “official” pronouncement of any kind on the matter.
And, of course, there is no way this pope would have been biased, is there?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right about it being on Holy Saturday.

For some reason I thought it happened later that night, ushering in Pascha, but it seems to happen earlier on Holy Saturday.
 
Ghosty said:
It’s a fairly well documented incident, and I figured Madaglan would catch the reference. I’m Armenian, so this event pops immediately to my head whenever the topic comes up. 🙂
Click to expand...
Sorry, it’s not clicking.

My priest has mentioned a few times the story about the Armenians and how the Holy Fire would not come when they prayed for it to come. Is this the same story to which you refer?
 
Madaglan said:
Sorry, it’s not clicking.

My priest has mentioned a few times the story about the Armenians and how the Holy Fire would not come when they prayed for it to come. Is this the same story to which you refer?
Click to expand...
A link to the story is found in Dvdjs’ post a few up from this.

Peace and God bless!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top