Visiting my friend's Protestant Church?

[followingtheway]

If a Protestant were to say what you said here about going to the Catholic church, he/she would be considered uncharitable and prudish.

How?

I don’t understand why he would have looked at you that way. Anglicans kneel in front of the altar and cross themselves too.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking about too, aren’t Anglicans a lot like Catholics?

Would you believe that this is a Lutheran Mass?

Amazing. I did see a video about something like that. A Lutheran Priest (or Pastor, I’m not sure what they call their ministers) was giving mass somewhat like a Catholic Priest would with candles, incense, a crucifix and so on.

 

[CopticChristian]

Are there rules for this?

I mean

1. 
   *]One of their services is at 11:00 am and my Church has mass at 5:00 pm. So I won’t miss my Sunday obligation
   *]I’m not going to eat their communion wafers or grape juice
   *]I’m not going to convert
   
   So am I good to go? Or are their more rules for an occasion like this? Can I sing or pray with them? Would that violate any rules?

1. 
   I have been to many Protestant services…small ecclesial communities and the Stadiums…man were they trying to get me saved…as you know…all Actions are governed by Intentions…If your intention is pure than your actions will be pure…curiosity, courtesy, investigation, understanding are some intentions…

 

[JRRTFAN]

Of course! Nothing can compare to receiving Jesus. But yeah it’s Pentecostal

Enjoy the music.

 

[JRRTFAN]

If it is a Lutheran Church, feel free to: genuflect, cross yourself at anytime you wish (you might be surprised how many are also crossing themselves), join us in praise, prayer, saying the creed, and listening to His word. Please do not join us at the altar to receive His body and blood, as it is a violation of your communion’s rules, and since we are not yet in full communion, probably our rules, too.

Jon

It’s none of my business, but why in the world would you advise someone to genuflect in a Lutheran church? No disrespect intended but one genuflects before the tabernacle in the Real Presence of the Lord. Said presence does not exist in a Lutheran church. To genuflect would essentially amount to idolatry.

 

[JonNC]

It’s none of my business, but why in the world would you advise someone to genuflect in a Lutheran church? No disrespect intended but one genuflects before the tabernacle in the Real Presence of the Lord. Said presence does not exist in a Lutheran church. To genuflect would essentially amount to idolatry.

I wasn’t advising, more letting him know its ok to do so. But obviously, I would be speaking from the perspective that Christ’s real and true body and blood are present at our altars. And frankly, while this probably isn’t the thread for us to discuss the validity of a Lutheran Lord’s Supper just a little quote from Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
“Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.”

Jon

 

[JustaServant]

Are there rules for this?

I mean

1. 
   *]One of their services is at 11:00 am and my Church has mass at 5:00 pm. So I won’t miss my Sunday obligation
   *]I’m not going to eat their communion wafers or grape juice
   *]I’m not going to convert
   
   So am I good to go? Or are their more rules for an occasion like this? Can I sing or pray with them? Would that violate any rules?

1. 
   A Protestant church encompasses quite a large number of denominations. If it is a church friendly to Catholics (if not agreeing with the Church) then I see no reason not to.
   (If I am ever in North Carolina I plan on sneaking into JonNC’s church.)
   However, I can tell you as a former fundamentalist we always invited our “unsaved” Catholic friends and family to church where the preacher would preach a salvation sermon for the clear expressed purpose of getting them to the “altar”. He might not even mention “Catholic” in the sermon, but as God made little green apples I can tell you YOU are the target. And somehow :“works” will be worked into the sermon somewhere. Guaranteed the preacher has been updated that “my Catholic friend will be here! Pray he ‘gets saved’.”
   I know, I used to do it myself, God forgive me.

 

[Cat]

You won’t violate any rules. I presume you’re not going to a traditional Protestant Church, e.g., Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. and instead are going to a non-denominational community. Don’t expect any communion service, but don’t participate if they have one, they’ll have one every month or so, usually the 3rd Sunday of the month.

Mostly, expect some guy in rolled up sleeves or casual clothes to welcome you from a stage, announce some “amazing things we’re doing this week” (feeding the homeless, having baptisms, giving out tracts, etc.) then reading a “call to worship” i.e., a Bible verse.

This will intro the band, which has been quietly assembling behind him. Said band will play, the words of the song will be up on a screen. Depending on the computer sophistication of the church, the screen may have things on it (helicopter view of the Rockies, volcanos, the sea, etc) while “Our God is an Awesome God” is rocked out. Expect raised hands and rocking motions from the community assembled.

After 3 or 4 songs the “teaching” Pastor will appear, he will read a sentence from the Bible (generally New Testament) then exposit it, another sentence, another exposition, etc. When it’s over you will have heard a great motivational talk.

At the end of his talk, Pastor will pray (the prayer will be a restatement of the sermon in the form of a prayer). As he prays the band will silently reenter the stage. There will be one more song then Pastor will come out again and do a mini-prayer of the sermon and post sermon prayer and dismiss the assembly. And then everybody will tell you how awesome it was.

Then at 5:00 p.m. you can recieve the Lord of the Universe, your creator, into your mouth, body, blood, soul and divinity and the sermon won’t sound so good.

I detect quite a bit of sarcasm in this post.

I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism, and I agree wholeheartedly that nothing–music, sermon, lighting, sound–NOTHING compares with receiving the Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Communion. I recognized Him when I began attending Mass, and He is the Reason for going to church.

But…I see no reason to dis a Protestant worship service.

First of all, many of the people in that church, including the pastors and musicians, absolutely love the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are serving Him to the best of their ability and knowledge. We should not attempt to divide the Christian church more than it is already divided–after all, if they are not against us, they are for us.

You surely know that many Protestant Christians have been martyred (overseas) for their faith, and many evangelical Christians in the U.S. face discrimination due to stereotypes.

Second, many evangelical Protestant Christians are loving, kind, charitable individuals who take their faith very seriously, keep themselves free from sin as much as possible, and visit the orphans and widows in their distress. (“feeding the homeless”)–that, according to St. James, is “true religion.” Who are we to dis this?. And they also have baptism and hand out tracts–that’s what Jesus TOLD Christians to do in Matthew 28: 18-20 (The Great Commission). You’re saying they shouldn’t do what Jesus plainly told us to do?

Third, as much as Catholics love the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, we are still human, and we still enjoy with our hearts and souls GOOD music and sermons. I think that many Catholic Masses, including the ones in my parish, could be much more diligent to offer the Lord Jesus better music and better homilies, but instead, we puff out our chests and say, "We don’t NEED good music and good preaching because we have JESUS! " Well, la di dah. It’s pretty sad when our Lord is used as an excuse to sing tepid songs in tepid voice, and sleep through homilies that are not always clear in their intent.

I realize that the Lord will accept whatever gifts we offer and be pleased if they are truly our best efforts. A priest who is not gifted in public speaking should not be condemned because he’s not “talented”–he has other gifts.

And neither should musicians who can’t sing be condemned because they are not professionally-trained. Heaven forbid that I would ever criticize a cantor, choir, instrumentalist, conductor/director, or congregation for being “poor” musicians.

But I think that many Catholics do not truly give their best, and even hold back gifts that they could be offering (e.g., Catholics who don’t sing could rouse themselves up, open the hymnal, and join in to make the music just a little fuller in the Mass), and that’s probably one reason why our music is so icky compared to Protestant music.

Fourth–those worship services that you are dismissing so cavalierly and with such humor are attracting many thousands of Catholics away from the Catholic Church. IMO, it behooves us to pay attention to and respect our “competition.”

 

[ltwin]

Of course! Nothing can compare to receiving Jesus. But yeah it’s Pentecostal

Well depending on the type of Pentecostal church it is, and I assume they are Trinitarian (lets hope so) it might get wild and crazy. If someone hollers or starts running the aisles just keep paying attention to the rest of the service.

 

[JonNC]

I detect quite a bit of sarcasm in this post.

I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism, and I agree wholeheartedly that nothing–music, sermon, lighting, sound–NOTHING compares with receiving the Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Communion. I recognized Him when I began attending Mass, and He is the Reason for going to church.

But…I see no reason to dis a Protestant worship service.

First of all, many of the people in that church, including the pastors and musicians, absolutely love the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are serving Him to the best of their ability and knowledge. We should not attempt to divide the Christian church more than it is already divided–after all, if they are not against us, they are for us.

You surely know that many Protestant Christians have been martyred (overseas) for their faith, and many evangelical Christians in the U.S. face discrimination due to stereotypes.

Second, many evangelical Protestant Christians are loving, kind, charitable individuals who take their faith very seriously, keep themselves free from sin as much as possible, and visit the orphans and widows in their distress. That, according to St. James, is the definition of true religion. Who are we to dis it?

Third, as much as Catholics love the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, we are still human, and we still enjoy with our hearts and souls GOOD music and sermons. I think that many Catholic Masses, including the ones in my parish, could be much more diligent to offer the Lord Jesus better music and better homilies, but instead, we puff out our chests and say, "We don’t NEED good music and good preaching because we have JESUS! " Well, la di dah. It’s pretty sad when our Lord is used as an excuse to sing tepid songs in tepid voice, and sleep through homilies that are not always clear in their intent.

I realize that the Lord will accept whatever gifts we offer and be pleased if they are truly our best efforts. A priest who is not gifted in public speaking should not be condemned because he’s not “talented”–he has other gifts.

And neither should musicians who can’t sing be condemned because they are not professionally-trained. Heaven forbid that I would ever criticize a cantor, choir, instrumentalist, conductor/director, or congregation for being “poor” musicians.

But I think that many Catholics do not truly give their best, and even hold back gifts that they could be offering (e.g., Catholics who don’t sing could rouse themselves up, open the hymnal, and join in to make the music just a little fuller in the Mass), and that’s probably one reason why our music is so icky compared to Protestant music.

Fourth–those worship services that you are dismissing so cavalierly and with such humor are attracting many thousands of Catholics away from the Catholic Church. IMO, it behooves us to pay attention to and respect our "competition."

Thanks, Cat, for this.
Regarding the bolded, the Pope made reference to some (not all) of these groups when he spoke to Lutherans in Germany last year. He said in part:

Speaking on the second day of his third trip to his homeland as pontiff, Benedict told the Lutherans: "Faced with a new form of Christianity, which is spreading with overpowering missionary dynamism, sometimes in frightening ways, the mainstream Christian denominations often seem at a loss.

“This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability. This worldwide phenomenon poses a question** to us all**: what is this new form of Christianity saying to us, for better and for worse?”

Jon

 

[JonNC]

A Protestant church encompasses quite a large number of denominations. If it is a church friendly to Catholics (if not agreeing with the Church) then I see no reason not to.
**(If I am ever in North Carolina I plan on sneaking into JonNC’s church.)**However, I can tell you as a former fundamentalist we always invited our “unsaved” Catholic friends and family to church where the preacher would preach a salvation sermon for the clear expressed purpose of getting them to the “altar”. He might not even mention “Catholic” in the sermon, but as God made little green apples I can tell you YOU are the target. And somehow :“works” will be worked into the sermon somewhere. Guaranteed the preacher has been updated that “my Catholic friend will be here! Pray he ‘gets saved’.”
I know, I used to do it myself, God forgive me.

You are very kind, and would be most welcome as a sibling in Christ.

Jon

 

[ltwin]

A Protestant church encompasses quite a large number of denominations. If it is a church friendly to Catholics (if not agreeing with the Church) then I see no reason not to.
(If I am ever in North Carolina I plan on sneaking into JonNC’s church.)
However, I can tell you as a former fundamentalist we always invited our “unsaved” Catholic friends and family to church where the preacher would preach a salvation sermon for the clear expressed purpose of getting them to the “altar”. He might not even mention “Catholic” in the sermon, but as God made little green apples I can tell you YOU are the target. And somehow :“works” will be worked into the sermon somewhere. Guaranteed the preacher has been updated that “my Catholic friend will be here! Pray he ‘gets saved’.”
I know, I used to do it myself, God forgive me.

I hope this wouldn’t happen, and I hope that the OP’s friend or whoever invited him to church did not have this as their motives. The poster said it was a Pentecostal church he was going to and from my experience Pentecostals don’t invite friends who already go to church somewhere else for the ulterior motive of “getting them saved.”

My pastor has said at times that God uses the Catholics too. We all have our own way that we worship God, he says, this style of worship isn’t for everybody. We just want the people that God wants to be here. His favorite line: There are many houses, but only one church.

In any event, many Pentecostal preachers don’t really plan their services, so even if the pastor knows that a Catholic is coming to church doesn’t mean he will arrange the service to convert him.

In fact, if this church is like mine, the pastor might not even get a chance to preach!

 

[JustaServant]

In any event, many Pentecostal preachers don’t really plan their services…

In fact, if this church is like mine, the pastor might not even get a chance to preach!

Since I have been in a few Pentecostal churches in my time I realize they do not consider themselves “liturgical” in the strict sense.
Started a new thread to discuss this.

 

[hannajomar]

It’s ok to go as a visitor. And it sounds as though your heart and mind are in the right frame to go.

My husband’s cousin, who is the pastor of his own store-front church invited us to a Sunday service. I just told myself beforehand that I would only engage in things that were at least consistent with my faith. Reading Holy Scripture - great. Singing songs in praise of Jesus - wonderful. Listening to people speaking in praise of Christ - I’ll listen. When I left, my impression of this church is a bunch of people praying together. Not bad, just incomplete compared to the Truth that I have come to experience. They didn’t even have bread and grape juice, so I didn’t have the awkwardness of refusing to eat it. Of course, at the end of the sermon, the pastor invited anyone up to the front who wanted to be “saved.” Husband and I stayed in our seats.

 

[JRRTFAN]

I wasn’t advising, more letting him know its ok to do so. But obviously, I would be speaking from the perspective that Christ’s real and true body and blood are present at our altars. And frankly, while this probably isn’t the thread for us to discuss the validity of a Lutheran Lord’s Supper just a little quote from Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
"Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper."

Jon

Indeed, as the Pope indicates, the Lord is present everywhere in His salvation granting, but not substantial, presence. If he were it would be fine to genuflect in front of a telephone pole the same as one does in front of a Catholic tabernacle.

 

[JonNC]

Indeed, as the Pope indicates, the Lord is present everywhere in His salvation granting, but not substantial, presence. If he were it would be fine to genuflect in front of a telephone pole the same as one does in front of a Catholic tabernacle.

Do you really think the good Cardinal, while corresponding with his friend, a Lutheran bishop, would be so condescending as this, that by saying the Lutheran Lord’s Supper has the salvation granting presence of Christ, but merely mean “where two or more are gathered in my name…”? Surely not.

But the issue is, would the OP be permitted, if he chose, to genuflect in my Lutheran parish? The answer is yes. Certainly, he can choose to or not to, for himself.

Jon

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Followingtheway, did you go? How was it?

 

[followingtheway]

Followingtheway, did you go? How was it?

Eh not yet. Thanks for asking

 

[ltwin]

Eh not yet. Thanks for asking

What do you know about the church?

 

[onemangang]

Do you really think the good Cardinal, while corresponding with his friend, a Lutheran bishop, would be so condescending as this, that by saying the Lutheran Lord’s Supper has the salvation granting presence of Christ, but merely mean “where two or more are gathered in my name…”? Surely not.

But the issue is, would the OP be permitted, if he chose, to genuflect in my Lutheran parish? The answer is yes. Certainly, he can choose to or not to, for himself.

Jon

Protestant “church?” Is there even such a thing as a “Protestant Church” in Catholic Theology

Pope Benedict XVI referred to them as “ecclesial communities” and not as “Churches” which was an uproar in the Protestant communities when Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI if I remember correctly!

On June 29, 2007 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, under the prefecture of Cardinal William Levada, explained why apostolic succession is integral to, and indeed, “a constitutive element” of the Catholic Church.** The Vatican was asked why the Second Vatican Council and all Catholic statements before and after the Council do not consider Protestant Christian Communities as Churches.** The Vatican responded that "according to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called ‘Churches’ in the proper sense"

So, I do think the good cardinal, now Pope chose his words wisely for a reason, in light of his past writings and statements!

 

[onemangang]

When ever I get invited to a protestant gathering, (which is always "non-denominational BTW) I lay out to the person whom invited me, that I do not consider it “Church” more of a gathering of people who get together and share their OPINIONS of who Christ is and what He did, (although, it is usually what He didn’t do that gets espoused Ie: didn’t start a visible Church, institute sacraments yada yada yada!) I equate it to, kind of like going to a “Christian Rock” concert with a guest speaker! To call it a “Church” is to give credence to it, and one may take it to mean you accept it as an equal.

They usually have some good music. I’ve been to a few that had some phenomenal musicians! The first thing you always get asked at these places is “Where do you go to Church?”