Visiting my friend's Protestant Church?

[JonNC]

=onemangang;8828692]Protestant “church?” Is there even such a thing as a “Protestant Church” in Catholic Theology

There isn’t even a such thing as a “Protestant Church” in Lutheran theology. There is the one holy catholic and apostolic Church, of which we consider ourselves a part.

Pope Benedict XVI referred to them as “ecclesial communities” and not as “Churches” which was an uproar in the Protestant communities when Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI if I remember correctly!

There certainly were some who were offended.

On June 29, 2007 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, under the prefecture of Cardinal William Levada, explained why apostolic succession is integral to, and indeed, “a constitutive element” of the Catholic Church.** The Vatican was asked why the Second Vatican Council and all Catholic statements before and after the Council do not consider Protestant Christian Communities as Churches.** The Vatican responded that "according to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called ‘Churches’ in the proper sense"

Quite aware of it, I am.

So, I do think the good cardinal, now Pope chose his words wisely for a reason, in light of his past writings and statements!

Yes. Very wisely, which he is good at doing, most of the time. He didn’t step out and say either, “its the same as Catholic Transubstantiation” (he wouldn’t be pope today if he had, most likely), or “its a nothing, other than where two or more are gathered in my his name” (in facy there’s another quote of his somewhere, as I recall, where he says its not a nothing).
In light of the Catholic view of John 6, for him to say that it has “the salvation granting presence” is rather significant!

Jon

 

[TarkanAttila]

If a Protestant were to say what you said here about going to the Catholic church, he/she would be considered uncharitable and prudish.

No, they would be considered convicted in their faith, and learned.

Most Protestants don’t believe the bread and wine are really the Body and Blood. Or that to become the Body and Blood it must be consecrated by an ordained priest. So it would be blasphemous from both of our perspectives for them to take the Eucharist.

Would you believe that this is a Lutheran Mass?

Hm. They look just like the Orthodox priest I saw on the altar at St. Vincent’s yesterday.

However, looks can be deceiving. Fool’s gold looks real only in the eyes of the common man. An expert, however, can tell you if it’s just pyrite.

Those aren’t ordained priests on the altar; in Lutheran theology, IIUC, practically anyone could get on the altar in those same robes and as long as they know the rubrics they could do much the same thing, and to the Lutherans it would still be valid. Not so in Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

 

[JonNC]

=TarkanAttila;8829228]No, they would be considered convicted in their faith, and learned.

As Omar is Anglican, it is safe to say that he believes in the real presence. So from his perspective, the statement could be viewed and “uncharitable and prudish”

Most Protestants don’t believe the bread and wine are really the Body and Blood. Or that to become the Body and Blood it must be consecrated by an ordained priest. So it would be blasphemous from both of our perspectives for them to take the Eucharist.

But Anglicans are not “most protestants”. So this would not be the issue. The issue is the current state of division between your communion and his.

Hm. They look just like the Orthodox priest I saw on the altar at St. Vincent’s yesterday.

However, looks can be deceiving. Fool’s gold looks real only in the eyes of the common man. An expert, however, can tell you if it’s just pyrite.

Now, this is uncharitable, and doesn’t reflect the nature of the relationship between our communions today.

1. Catholic judgment on the authenticity of Lutheran ministry need not be of an all-or-nothing nature. The Decree on Ecumenism of Vatican II distinguished between relationships of full ecclesiastical communion and those of imperfect communion to reflect the varying degrees of differences with the Catholic Church.(164) The communion of these separated communities with the Catholic Church is real, even though it is imperfect. Furthermore, the decree positively affirmed:

Our separated brothers and sisters also celebrate many sacred actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each church or community, and must be held capable of giving access to that communion in which is salvation.(165)
Commenting on this point, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote in 1993 to Bavarian Lutheran bishop Johannes Hanselmann:

I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of ‘validity.’ Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord’s Supper.(166)

If the actions of Lutheran pastors can be described by Catholics as “sacred actions” that “can truly engender a life of grace,” if communities served by such ministers give “access to that communion in which is salvation,” and if at a eucharist at which a Lutheran pastor presides is to be found “the salvation-granting presence of the Lord,” then Lutheran churches cannot be said simply to lack the ministry given to the church by Christ and the Spirit. In acknowledging the imperfect koinonia between our communities and the access to grace through the ministries of these communities, we also acknowledge a real although imperfect koinonia between our ministries.

nccbuscc.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

Those aren’t ordained priests on the altar; in Lutheran theology, IIUC, practically anyone could get on the altar in those same robes and as long as they know the rubrics they could do much the same thing, and to the Lutherans it would still be valid. Not so in Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

This is false.

From the Augsburg Confession:

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.

Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.

As a layman, I am no more capable of consecrating the Eucharist, or hearing confession and absolving sins in Christ’s name than you are (assuming your not ordained). Further, while lay lectors may read the OT and Epistle lessons from the lectionary, only the Pastor reads the Gospel.

Jon

 

[petrel]

As a convert I very rarely visit my former church. I do so in order to express my affection for the people there and to remind them that their favoured son is still on the face of the earth and is persisting as a Catholic. To attend regularly would be to say to them that I approve of their fellowship and that it is an acceptable alternative to the Catholic church.

Which it is not.

I think that to attend a schismatic fellowship is opening up a whole world of pain. The Vatican Council encouraged this kind of inter-faith dialogue and it has been a horrible experiment which has been utterly disastrous for the Catholic faith.
To attend a schismatic fellowship for reasons of curiousity is opening yourself up to their influences.

Just be alert to the natural arrogance which is in all of us. We all recognise that men can be deceived and fall away from the faith, but none of us think that we are capable of this. Therefore we put ourselves into harms way. As a result we have large numbers of Catholics falling away into protestant fellowships.

Stay away. Run like crazy. The Catholic Church is the fold for the sheep. Curiosity killed the cat.

 

[TarkanAttila]

As Omar is Anglican, it is safe to say that he believes in the real presence. So from his perspective, the statement could be viewed and “uncharitable and prudish”

But Anglicans are not “most protestants”. So this would not be the issue. The issue is the current state of division between your communion and his.

Unfortunately, Anglican and Catholic priests are separated by small but important differences within their holy orders. Small things can be of great importance. Look at the thousands of bitter divisions within lesser forms of Protestantism caused by all kinds of things the common layman would consider trivial. Complete orthodoxy is important. :sad_yes: Even little family churches know this, although they have no way of establishing orthodoxy except starting a new church.

Now, this is uncharitable, and doesn’t reflect the nature of the relationship between our communions today.
nccbuscc.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

Admittedly, this is borne of ignorance on my part. My apologies.

However, the Roman Catholic Church still sees Lutheranism as “deficient”. I do not know what that exactly means, but it does mean that something is missing, or inferior, in Lutheranism. Lutheranism does look very traditionally Catholic, and I thank you for preserving some of that Catholic tradition which we have not preserved in the Ordinary Form.

But unfortunately, Lutheranism is still not the genuine article. It’s not pyrite, but it’s not solid gold, either.

This is false.

From the Augsburg Confession:

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.

Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.

As a layman, I am no more capable of consecrating the Eucharist, or hearing confession and absolving sins in Christ’s name than you are (assuming your not ordained). Further, while lay lectors may read the OT and Epistle lessons from the lectionary, only the Pastor reads the Gospel.

Jon

What does Luther mean by “regularly called”? Or rather, what is the rule of the Lutheran Church for pastors? It is not ordination by the Catholic means, surely, for Luther taught against the ordained priesthood.

 

[JonNC]

=TarkanAttila;8829549] Unfortunately, Anglican and Catholic priests are separated by small but important differences within their holy orders. Small things can be of great importance. Look at the thousands of bitter divisions within lesser forms of Protestantism caused by all kinds of things the common layman would consider trivial. Complete orthodoxy is important. :sad_yes: Even little family churches know this, although they have no way of establishing orthodoxy except starting a new church.

And small and large things can and must be overcome.

Admittedly, this is borne of ignorance on my part. My apologies.

None needed. You said IIUC, so all’s good

However, the Roman Catholic Church still sees Lutheranism as “deficient”. I do not know what that exactly means, but it does mean that something is missing, or inferior, in Lutheranism. Lutheranism does look very traditionally Catholic, and I thank you for preserving some of that Catholic tradition which we have not preserved in the Ordinary Form.

The statement I linked goes into this.

But unfortunately, Lutheranism is still not the genuine article. It’s not pyrite, but it’s not solid gold, either.

Well, this is better than your first pyrite reference.

What does Luther mean by “regularly called”? Or rather, what is the rule of the Lutheran Church for pastors? It is not ordination by the Catholic means, surely, for Luther taught against the ordained priesthood.

The role of the Lutheran pastor is not all that much different. He spends a number of years in semenary, and when he receives his initial a call to a parish, is ordained. So yes, we have an ordained clergy. His duties are pastoral, and he is in charge of the spiritual health of his parish. Only he baptizes (under usual circumstances), preaches from the pulpit, and administers the sacraments.

I don’t believe that your analysis that Luther taught against the ordained priesthood is exactly accurate. Certainly he believed in the priesthood of all believers, but that doesn’t eliminate the need for the ministerial priesthood within the Church.

Jon

 

[DLG123]

You won’t violate any rules. I presume you’re not going to a traditional Protestant Church, e.g., Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. and instead are going to a non-denominational community. Don’t expect any communion service, but don’t participate if they have one, they’ll have one every month or so, usually the 3rd Sunday of the month.

Mostly, expect some guy in rolled up sleeves or casual clothes to welcome you from a stage, announce some “amazing things we’re doing this week” (feeding the homeless, having baptisms, giving out tracts, etc.) then reading a “call to worship” i.e., a Bible verse.

This will intro the band, which has been quietly assembling behind him. Said band will play, the words of the song will be up on a screen. Depending on the computer sophistication of the church, the screen may have things on it (helicopter view of the Rockies, volcanos, the sea, etc) while “Our God is an Awesome God” is rocked out. Expect raised hands and rocking motions from the community assembled.

After 3 or 4 songs the “teaching” Pastor will appear, he will read a sentence from the Bible (generally New Testament) then exposit it, another sentence, another exposition, etc. When it’s over you will have heard a great motivational talk.

At the end of his talk, Pastor will pray (the prayer will be a restatement of the sermon in the form of a prayer). As he prays the band will silently reenter the stage. There will be one more song then Pastor will come out again and do a mini-prayer of the sermon and post sermon prayer and dismiss the assembly. And then everybody will tell you how awesome it was.

Then at 5:00 p.m. you can recieve the Lord of the Universe, your creator, into your mouth, body, blood, soul and divinity and the sermon won’t sound so good.

WOW!!! You hit the nail on the head!
I live in North Texas and that is EXACTLY how the evangelical churches sermon are compiled. Were you a minister?

 

[JRRTFAN]

Do you really think the good Cardinal, while corresponding with his friend, a Lutheran bishop, would be so condescending as this, that by saying the Lutheran Lord’s Supper has the salvation granting presence of Christ, but merely mean “where two or more are gathered in my name…”? Surely not.

But the issue is, would the OP be permitted, if he chose, to genuflect in my Lutheran parish? The answer is yes. Certainly, he can choose to or not to, for himself.

Jon

Of course he would be allowed. I’ve seen it done in a Methodist Church. The point is why does one do it. I supposed that the ones I saw doing it in the Methodist Chruch were former Catholics who didn’t know why they did it in the Catholic Church which is part of the reason they were in a Methodist Church. They don’t know the difference.

I will ask this,do not think that the Lutheran Pastor in the Church you refer to would propose that the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, under the appearance of bread is reserved in his Church or that he has the power to consecrate the elements to become such? If he wouldn’t - and he wouldn’t - it is important not to worship whatever it is, which is bread.

Genuflecting is not just a pious thing to do. It means something.

 

[followingtheway]

What do you know about the church?

1. 
   *]It’s Trinitarian
   *]They speak in tongues (my friend described it as “Holy Ghost/Spirit fire”)
   *]It’s Hispanic based. Since I’m Hispanic it makes it all the more interesting. Because usually you see Hispanics being Catholics.
   *]Where it is
   *]There services are on Friday (late) and on Sunday (early)
   
   What I would like to know is
   1. 
      *]Not that I’m going to take it. But what’s the communion thing like. Is it like us wafers and wife, or do they have grape juice and so on…
      *]Is there a possibility that there going to be Anti-Catholic? There already said something about Buddha and Muhammad. I mean in Latino world, Catholicism is kind of the competing and predominant religion.
      *]What’s the whole service composed of. Will it be more singing or bible reading or preaching or sermons?

 

[JRRTFAN]

WOW!!! You hit the nail on the head!
I live in North Texas and that is EXACTLY how the evangelical churches sermon are compiled. Were you a minister?

No, I’ve not been a minister. My family de-poped about 17 - 18 years ago and I have been to countless services with them in various Evangelical venues, ranging from a YMCA basketball court (food was available buffet style while the service went on, you ate while you prayed and the band played at round 8 top tables), to school cafeterias, to offices, to an NBA basketball arena, to converted movie theatres, to full fledged Evangelical auditoriums with lazer light shows and magnificent electronics and multi-media and video capabilities.

It’s always the same, hip guys, very pretty girl singers and a wonderful fellowship (including upscale coffee) One place even has a franchised breakfast/lunch restaurant vendor in the lobby and a book store that looks like Barnes & Noble!

I’ve seen simulcast worship services with Africans in Namibia, Egyptians in Egypt, confetti cannons for excitement, lazer light shows, communion services where the guy next to you holds up the chiclet of bread and says the consecration (I did not participate, which kind of screws up the program for the whole row of seats). Skits and plays, dancers, soloists, If you can imagine it, they’ve don’e it. There are no crucifixes or crosses, of course, but sometimes they’ll show a classic painting of the crucifixion as part of a video show.

So, I’ve seen most iterations of the franchise. I have NEVER missed mass on Sunday and have pretty much quit going to these things with my family because, underneath it all, there is always a subtle and sometimes overt anti-Catholicism and I dislike that intensly, but I did observe a lot I never would have seen .

 

[JonNC]

=JRRTFAN;8831391] Of course he would be allowed. I’ve seen it done in a Methodist Church. The point is why does one do it. I supposed that the ones I saw doing it in the Methodist Chruch were former Catholics who didn’t know why they did it in the Catholic Church which is part of the reason they were in a Methodist Church. They don’t know the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. It might just have from habit. There were some Catholics in our parish a couple of years ago participating in a choir presentation, who did genuflect.

I will ask this,do not think that the Lutheran Pastor in the Church you refer to would propose that the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, under the appearance of bread is reserved in his Church or that he has the power to consecrate the elements to become such? If he wouldn’t - and he wouldn’t - it is important not to worship whatever it is, which is bread.

Not sure I understand your question. However, while he wouldn’t say he “has the power” (that is the power of the Holy Spirit), he would say that by the speaking of the words od institution andthe power of the Holy Spirit, the bread and wine ARE the body and blood of Christ. And it can be and is, when necessary, reserved.

Genuflecting is not just a pious thing to do. It means something.

I completely understand that. I was simply saying the OP has the invitation to do so, if he chooses.

Jon

 

[hn160]

It’s none of my business, but why in the world would you advise someone to genuflect in a Lutheran church? No disrespect intended but one genuflects before the tabernacle in the Real Presence of the Lord. Said presence does not exist in a Lutheran church. To genuflect would essentially amount to idolatry.

It is our view that Christ is at our altars in the bread and wine as it is in Roman Catholic altars. At my church it is the practice to bow facing the altar before getting into the pew and before kneeling at the altar rail when receiving Holy Communion and afterwards.

At my church, the consecrated elements are always kept in reserve and never mixed with non-consecrated elements.

 

[JRRTFAN]

It is our view that Christ is at our altars in the bread and wine as it is in Roman Catholic altars. At my church it is the practice to bow facing the altar before getting into the pew and before kneeling at the altar rail when receiving Holy Communion and afterwards.

The problem with these forums is that presenting the Catholic position one, almost of necessity, sounds like one is denigrating other communions. I have all the respect in the world for the LC MS and etc. I hope you will understand when I say that it is wrong in its teaching. If I thought it was correct I would join it. I believe Christ is at your altar in the bread and wine and in the very air but I do not believe that the bread and wine ARE Christ, which they are in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

 

[JonNC]

=JRRTFAN;8831927]The problem with these forums is that presenting the Catholic position one, almost of necessity, sounds like one is denigrating other communions. I have all the respect in the world for the LC MS and etc.

I don’t think you are denigrating us, and I’ve seen enough posts from you to believe your are honest in your statement of respect.

I hope you will understand when I say that it is wrong in its teaching. If I thought it was correct I would join it. I believe Christ is at your altar in the bread and wine and in the very air but I do not believe that the bread and wine ARE Christ, which they are in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

You are right to state the position of your communion, The Catholic Church, and I respect you for it, and have high regard and admiration for the Catholic Church and the Bishop of Rome. Nothing would please me more in this entire world than for our communions to completely reconcile.
We believe that the bread and wine at your Church and ours Are the body and blood of our Savior, and I pray for the day when we can be at the same altar to receive His wonderful gift.

Jon

 

[Incomplete]

Nothing would please me more in this entire world than for our communions to completely reconcile.

Jon

You spoke what I’ve been thinking.

 

[twf]

I don’t think you are denigrating us, and I’ve seen enough posts from you to believe your are honest in your statement of respect.

You are right to state the position of your communion, The Catholic Church, and I respect you for it, and have high regard and admiration for the Catholic Church and the Bishop of Rome. Nothing would please me more in this entire world than for our communions to completely reconcile.
We believe that the bread and wine at your Church and ours Are the body and blood of our Savior, and I pray for the day when we can be at the same altar to receive His wonderful gift.

Jon

Jon - I am a convert to Catholicism, but as a former Evangelical Protestant (in the typical North American use of the term ‘evangelical’), your Lutheran positions are very foreign to me. The very notion of a sacramental economy, the Real Presence, confession, ontologically distinct ordained clergy, liturgical worship, authoritative tradition outside of Scripture, etc was completely taboo… as a Lutheran, do you feel that you have more in common with Catholics than with the majority of contempoary Evangelical/Pentecostal communities in North America?

 

[JonNC]

Jon - I am a convert to Catholicism, but as a former Evangelical Protestant (in the typical North American use of the term ‘evangelical’), your Lutheran positions are very foreign to me. The very notion of a sacramental economy, the Real Presence, confession, ontologically distinct ordained clergy, liturgical worship, authoritative tradition outside of Scripture, etc was completely taboo… as a Lutheran, do you feel that you have more in common with Catholics than with the majority of contempoary Evangelical/Pentecostal communities in North America?

Not speaking for all Lutherans, only me. Catholicism, hands down. I’ve often said I would be Catholic long before any other non-Catholic western communion, with the possible exception of certain Anglican communities. Those things you mention, particularly the sacraments - Baptism, Absolution, Eucharist - are the means of grace, and I could never be without them.

Jon

 

[ltwin]

*]It’s Trinitarian

Good. I’d hate for your impression of Pentecostals to be determined by believers in the non-Trinitarian oneness doctrine

*]They speak in tongues (my friend described it as “Holy Ghost/Spirit fire”)

There is an old song my church sings, “It’s just like fire, shut up in my bones . . . I got that Holy Ghost fire shut up in my bones.” Pentecostals like the fire imagery.

The technical Pentecostal explanation is " speaking in tongues is the first evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is an experience that comes after the born again experience. We believe that the experience empowers the believer for Christian service and ministry."

*]It’s Hispanic based. Since I’m Hispanic it makes it all the more interesting. Because usually you see Hispanics being Catholics.

It’s a growing trend. US Pentecostalism will definitely have a large Latin American contingent in the future.

*]There services are on Friday (late) and on Sunday (early)

My guess is that the Friday night service would be the wilder of the two (if this church gets “wild,” it may not). Some churches tend to be calmer on Sundays since that’s when a lot of people bring guests.

What I would like to know is

1. 
   *]Not that I’m going to take it. But what’s the communion thing like. Is it like us wafers and wife, or do they have grape juice and so on…

1. 
   Yea wafers I would think. Perhaps crackers or I’ve even seen loaves of bread that was passed around and you pinched off a piece for yourself. Grape juice I would think. Pentecostals tend to discourage alcohol consumption.
   

   *]Is there a possibility that there going to be Anti-Catholic? There already said something about Buddha and Muhammad. I mean in Latino world, Catholicism is kind of the competing and predominant religion.

   I really can’t say. My church is not hostile to Catholics, we just don’t really understand them much. I have no idea what a Hispanic Pentecostal church’s feelings toward Catholicism would be. As you said, many will probably converts from Catholicism and I would assume their feelings could be quite complex.
   

   *]What’s the whole service composed of. Will it be more singing or bible reading or preaching or sermons?

   Difficult to say. Pentecostals are diverse. It will definitely be low church. Sunday service will probably begin with prayer. Then the praise and worship portion. The music will probably be contemporary (they could be old fashion though but I wouldn’t know what that would look like or sound like in an Hispanic church). Depending on how enthusiastic the church is people may be very expressive in their worship and some might go down to the altar to pray. The singing could last for a while.
   
   Tithes and offering will then be taken up. Then preaching starts. He may read a few verses and preach on that. The preaching could take a while. Then an altar call for salvation and other needs. Announcements and dismissal.
   
   The main elements of a Pentecostal service is 1) Celebrating and worshiping God, 2) Seeking God’s face and praying with and for others seeking God, 3) Receiving the Word, and 4) encountering His tangible presence with other believers.
   
   Someone might speak in tongues and interpret. Or someone might give a prophecy, word of knowledge or wisdom.
   
   All together, the service could last awhile (or it could be short). I’m only speaking from personal experience, but our Sunday morning service starts about 10:15 and we dont get out to around 1:00. However, we don’t have a Sunday night service anymore.

 

[couponfit]

Are there rules for this?

I mean

1. 
   *]One of their services is at 11:00 am and my Church has mass at 5:00 pm. So I won’t miss my Sunday obligation
   *]I’m not going to eat their communion wafers or grape juice
   *]I’m not going to convert
   
   So am I good to go? Or are their more rules for an occasion like this? Can I sing or pray with them? Would that violate any rules?

1. 
   It really depends on which one you are going to. But that aside, as a general rule, it’s fine. It’s not a sin, but, if you are young and attend a pentacostal service it could confuse you. Here in Texas it’s not unusual for a RC priest to actually tell a teenage catholic not to attend a non-denominational born again ministry with their friend. I attended such services as a child but I was with my Grandmother and she was careful on how I did this. Here are some basic pointers I can give:
   1. If you are going to a non-denominational ministry try to attend on any day but Sunday.
   2. In some ministries they will ask new comers to sit in a certain area, offer special vip assistance, etc: avoid this.
   3. Respect the congregants you are praying with, and respect their rights. Do not go there to convert them or to argue with them. You will get more out of this blessing if you simply listen and ask questions when the time is right. Try to ask your questions to only one of two people: either a RC priest or the protestant liturgical leader. Some churches use the concept of 5 pillar ministries so this can confuse you a bit.
   Why attend: well I can’t answer for you, but for me I attend service outside the catholic church for several reasons. 1st, attending these services is a challenge, it sort of puts me on my toes, every difference rings out, and this forces me to bring more into the service and as a result I take out more. I leave with questions as basic as why. I have to look into my own faith and it forces me to come to grip and reality with what it means to be a catholic. Normally it helps me affirm my own faith. When I have issues or confusion it’s best to see a RC priest shortly afterwards, even if by appointment, to discuss your questions one on one.
   
   For me I have grown in faith from this, but only because I took the time to talk to my priest about 3 times over 35 years when I needed to on this.
   
   One nice place to start as a catholic is within the catholic church. often times as catholics we do not realize the universal nature and vastness of worship and faith within our own church. You can put more effort into your own church by joining a ministry or group or fraternity. I’m not really a fan of the fraternities, but I do enjoy the lay orders. You can seek out some of the seminaries or orders and ask for some time with them to pray and discuss. It’s best to do this through a calling! You can attend catholic church in other countries when visiting, that is very interesting. You can even attend eastern catholic service. As you do this you can progress outwards staring with the churches that claim apostolic succession such as the orthodox churches, the oriental orthodox churches, and even the old catholic church; then you can move towards the protestant churches. Anglican, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran will be more familiar to you. A few groups are very unique and not exactly protestant: non-denominational; adventist; Pentecostal. Then there are those with christian canon who have additional or open canon: Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Muslims. The only major group I didn’t mention where was Judaism. That is really a base religion and very beautiful in their own way. Attending a jewish service is quite easy to do and to join them in prayer. I really felt bless having attending these services for a few months.

 

[TarkanAttila]

The statement I linked goes into this.

Might spend some time reading this.

None needed. You said IIUC, so all’s good.

Thank you for your charity. I am very ignorant when it comes to Lutheranism.

Well, this is better than your first pyrite reference.

The role of the Lutheran pastor is not all that much different. He spends a number of years in seminary, and when he receives his initial a call to a parish, is ordained. So yes, we have an ordained clergy. His duties are pastoral, and he is in charge of the spiritual health of his parish. Only he baptizes (under usual circumstances), preaches from the pulpit, and administers the sacraments.

I don’t believe that your analysis that Luther taught against the ordained priesthood is exactly accurate. Certainly he believed in the priesthood of all believers, but that doesn’t eliminate the need for the ministerial priesthood within the Church.

Jon

Hm. The form is more than I thought it was.You do seem very Catholic. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood Lutheranism. (I’m sure I have.)

The problem being that yours is not founded on the rock of Sacred Tradition, and Apostolic succession. Also, I wonder how your people manage to keep your orthodoxy without a central authority like a council of bishops, or a Pope.