Visiting OCDS Communities

[Augustine]

After a long time longing to discern whether God is calling me to join a 3rd order, I’m glad that I’m now ready to start inquiring a couple of local OCDS communities.

My spiritual director advised about visiting more than one community. One of the local communities has been established a few years ago and the other is still a study group.

I’ll visit the community this Saturday and I have to confess that I have some butterflies in my stomach. A lot of things go through my head and I’d appreciate if those familiar with the process would help me out with few questions I have:

1. 
   *]All I have is this identification with the Carmelite spirituality and love for a few Carmelite saints that grew over time through readings and devotions, but is it enough to become an aspirant OCDS?
   *]I’d like to find a community where I could grow spiritually with the help of brothers and sisters in Christ, but how is it possible to figure it out by visiting a community?
   *]I don’t know how these communities are related to 1st and 2nd orders communities, but I’d like one with strong ties to a monastery for spiritual support and retreats.
   *]What is the difference to the formation of an aspirant between a community and a study group?
   *]I don’t know about the faithfulness to the Magisterium of the communities, so would it be OK to ask about some controversial topics such as ordination of women and homosexual “marriage” to gauge their orthodoxy?
   Please, let me know if I’m going overboard with these questions. And pray for me to find Jesus’ calling in Carmel.
   
   

 

[puzzleannie]

by third order I assume you are speaking of a lay institute attached to a religious order. long time member contemplative is a carmelite lay associate, I believe, you may want to search her old posts on the topic.

attending meetings over several months as a visitor while discerning will answer most or all the questions you have posed.

most people seem to join us because they have been invited by a member who knows them, and whom they know and trust. I am a Benedictine oblate. Others join because they are oblates somewhere else and transfer to our monastery because they have moved here.

 

[DBT]

Augustine:

After a long time longing to discern whether God is calling me to join a 3rd order, I’m glad that I’m now ready to start inquiring a couple of local OCDS communities.

Congratulations, Augustine . . . and I’m not suprised

Augustine:

My spiritual director advised about visiting more than one community. One of the local communities has been established a few years ago and the other is still a study group.

Well you’re very lucky in that regard . . . to have options to choose from. All things equal, I’d steer toward the officially sanctioned community rather than the study group. Unless, of course, the original community has grown to large and this new group is an offshoot of that. I’d ask them what the process/timeframe is for becoming an offical community and how that would impact the formation process for you as a potential aspirant.

From what I remember, the Austin community is very strong and vibrant. Elizabeth Korves is a member and she’s a nationally recognized writer, speaker etc. She spoke at the OCDS national congress last year and gave a wonderful talk on St. Therese and living Carmelite spirituality in the workplace.

Augustine:

All I have is this identification with the Carmelite spirituality and love for a few Carmelite saints that grew over time through readings and devotions, but is it enough to become an aspirant OCDS?

Well that’s certainly where it begins! Love of all things Carmel is what brings people to visit a community in the first place and is primary factor in discerning whether you actually have a “vocation” as opposed to a simple attraction or fondness. But don’t worry about figuring all that out now – formation is a long process (5 years) so there’s ample time.

Augustine:

I’d like to find a community where I could grow spiritually with the help of brothers and sisters in Christ, but how is it possible to figure it out by visiting a community?

Just visit the communities for their monthly meeting and try to get a feel for things. Remember, community is a two-way street: you have to feel comfortable with it and the community must also discern if you fit them. Again, that’s an on-going process. At this point, I’d simply try and get a feel for the “personality” of the community and the degree to which you’re comfortable with it. Try and get a handle on the leadership and how faithfully they follow the Constitutions with regard to election of officers etc. And after a few meetings you’ll probably have a pretty good feel for the depth of knowledge of individual members and the degree to which they can help you grow in Carmelite spirituality.

Augustine:

I don’t know how these communities are related to 1st and 2nd orders communities, but I’d like one with strong ties to a monastery for spiritual support and retreats.

Friars (1st Order), Nuns (2nd Order) and Seculars (3rd Order) all have the same rule and charism - - - it’s just lived out in different settings. I’m pretty sure the Austin community is attached to the monestary in your town.

Augustine:

I don’t know about the faithfulness to the Magisterium of the communities, so would it be OK to ask about some controversial topics such as ordination of women and homosexual “marriage” to gauge their orthodoxy?

My guess is the communities you’ll be meeting with will be very orthodox.

I’m not sure if this helped or not . . . and I’m a bit pressed for time at the moment. I have a 12 noon holy hour to keep at our Carmelite monestary here in St. Louis!

Feel free to respond back or PM and we can talk in greater detail. And again, congratulations on taking the first step toward Carmel

Dave

 

[DBT]

Hi Augustine -

Here’s a link to our website. Click the tab called “Links” for many sites that may be useful to you.

www.stl-ocds.org/

The Austin community is part of the Oklahoma Province and there’s a link to their website as well. It has some good info on the Constitutions, formation etc.

Good luck with your meeting Don’t worry about the “butterfly’s” . . . I’m sure they’ll make you feel very welcome!

Dave

 

[DBT]

Hi again Augustine -

I spent a few moments poking around the Oklahoma Province site that I mentioned in the last post. Lot’s of good stuff there. Here’s something directly related to discernment and the aspirancy period:

www.rc.net/lansing/ctk/carmelites/discern.htm

I put this part in quotes because it got cut off from the web link some how:

What will I do during the period of Aspirancy?

In the period of aspirancy the aspirant will pray the daily offices of morning, evening and night prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, will attend mass as frequently as possible and fully participate in the sacraments for their state in life, will study the history of the Order, will share in the life of the local community and while on retreat in the life of extended communities, will share their personal autobiography with the local community, will study the O.C.D.S. Constitutions and Statutes of the Oklahoma Province and government of the Order, will observe the solemnities, feasts, memorials and commemorations of the Order, will learn about the Marian charism of the Order, will learn about the blesseds and saints of the Order, and will close the period of aspirancy studying the Basic Identity of Secular Carmelites, by Anthony Morello, O.C.D., and by writing a personal commentary on it.

The aspirant will be guided in discernment by the Formation Director and supported in this by the Spiritual Assistant and the local community.

What happens at the conclusion of the period of aspirancy?

After the period of aspirancy, the council of the community may invite the applicant to a more serious period of formation that usually lasts for two years leading up to the first promises. At the beginning of this period of formation, the scapular is given to the applicant in the Rite of Clothing. This is an outward symbol of membership in the Order, and the sign that Mary is both Mother and Model on this journey.

Lot’s more like it on that site.

Dave.

 

[franksta]

Augustine,

Congratulations and every blessing to you. As far as asking questions about the community’s orthodoxy, you shouldn’t feel rude about it and it may even be wise to do so. I was actually advised to do that by Fr. Serpa on this forum when investigating third-orders (I am in formation as a Secular Franciscan).

Peace and all good,

Frank

 

[FCEGM]

This is wonderful news, Augustine. I served for a number of years as Director of Formation for my OCDS Community in Santa Clara, CA. Here is something I put together to help aspirants and those who were continuing their discernment to the point of making their Definitive Promise:

Thoughts on Discernment

• Do I cherish the Gospel and desire to imitate Christ?
• Are there any impediments to my following the Rule of Life of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites? (Family obligations; unable to receive the Sacraments)
• Do I desire to follow the Rule with my whole heart?
• Do I desire, and am I able, to attend the monthly meeting?
• Do I desire, and can I commit myself, to a life of prayer in union with Christ and His Church?
• Do I see my life of prayer as the way of bringing Christ into all aspects of my life?
• Do I desire to grow in the self-knowledge which is humility?
• Am I seeking the exotic (extraordinary experiences/manifestations) or the substantial (living by Faith and not by sight)?
• Am I attracted to the Saints of the Order?
• Do I desire to grow through the writings of the Saints of the Order in my knowledge of the life of union with God?
• Will I do the reading and the assignments required?
• Do I want to teach - or to learn?
• Does what I hear and learn at the meetings correspond to the desires of my heart?
• As a result of my entering into the way of Carmel, do I find I am living the Gospel more perfectly?
• As a result of my entering into the way of Carmel, is Christ becoming more and more the center of my life?
• Do I recognize that I am truly a part of the family of Carmel?
• Do I see that I am growing slowly, but surely, in this way of life?
• Do I believe I can accurately describe the vocation of Carmel, its obligations and its mission in the Church and in the world?
• Have I allowed the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Carmel, to enter into my life under tas my mother, teacher and protectress?
• Do I desire to serve Christ’s Mystical Body, His Church, taking the Blessed Virgin as my model for this service?
• Do I recognize within myself the call of the Holy Spirit to tend toward meditative/contemplative prayer?
• Do I recognize that a meditative/contemplative prayer life is not just for my own sake, but for the sake of the whole Body of Christ?
• Am I zealous for the Lord God of Hosts and for His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?
• Do I know and delight in the Carmelite heritage?
• Do I see the Order as another pious group to join, or do I recognize that I am responding to a vocation given to me by God?
• Am I desirous and willing to make a life-long commitment to the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites?

God bless you in your discernment.

 

[Augustine]

Hi, Dave.

Well you’re very lucky in that regard . . . to have options to choose from. All things equal, I’d steer toward the officially sanctioned community rather than the study group. Unless, of course, the original community has grown to large and this new group is an offshoot of that. I’d ask them what the process/timeframe is for becoming an offical community and how that would impact the formation process for you as a potential aspirant.

AFAIK, the study group is still about 4 years from becoming a community and is in another town. So I’m not sure whether it’s an offshoot of the community. I know that the community in Waco is an offshoot of it from a few years back.

From what I remember, the Austin community is very strong and vibrant. Elizabeth Korves is a member and she’s a nationally recognized writer, speaker etc. She spoke at the OCDS national congress last year and gave a wonderful talk on St. Therese and living Carmelite spirituality in the workplace.

That certainly bodes well!

Well that’s certainly where it begins! Love of all things Carmel is what brings people to visit a community in the first place and is primary factor in discerning whether you actually have a “vocation” as opposed to a simple attraction or fondness. But don’t worry about figuring all that out now – formation is a long process (5 years) so there’s ample time.

I ask because when I called the president I was asked what I about my Carmelite readings…

Just visit the communities for their monthly meeting and try to get a feel for things. Remember, community is a two-way street: you have to feel comfortable with it and the community must also discern if you fit them. Again, that’s an on-going process. At this point, I’d simply try and get a feel for the “personality” of the community and the degree to which you’re comfortable with it. Try and get a handle on the leadership and how faithfully they follow the Constitutions with regard to election of officers etc. And after a few meetings you’ll probably have a pretty good feel for the depth of knowledge of individual members and the degree to which they can help you grow in Carmelite spirituality.

Doesn’t the province oversees the communities?

Friars (1st Order), Nuns (2nd Order) and Seculars (3rd Order) all have the same rule and charism - - - it’s just lived out in different settings. I’m pretty sure the Austin community is attached to the monestary in your town.

Is there one? I think that there’s an OCD convent in San Antonio…

My guess is the communities you’ll be meeting with will be very orthodox.

I pray that they are. I’d hate to join a community of “reformers”.

I’m not sure if this helped or not . . . and I’m a bit pressed for time at the moment. I have a 12 noon holy hour to keep at our Carmelite monestary here in St. Louis!

It certainly did! And thanks for the support.

 

[Augustine]

My answer to all questions is “yes”.

For almost a year now, I’ve been trying to follow some aspects of the rule to see if I could abide by them, such as daily Rosary and Mass. Now, if for any reason I cannot do either, I feel as though something is missing.

I’ll let y’all know how it goes tomorrow.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My answer to all questions is “yes”.

For almost a year now, I’ve been trying to follow some aspects of the rule to see if I could abide by them, such as daily Rosary and Mass. Now, if for any reason I cannot do either, I feel as though something is missing.

I’ll let y’all know how it goes tomorrow.

Augustine,
I’m happy that you’re seeking out the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. The only advise I can give you is, be patient and pray, pray, pray.
Being an OCDS member isn’t easy. You’ll be joining a community, and communities all have their lettle quirks and problems. Some, like my former community, were all elderly, we eventually died out, literally.

BTW, did you know that the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, are the only lay order, that you can make vows of chastity and obedience?

All other 3rd orders, make promisses, but not vows.

My our Lady of Mt. Carmel, be with you in your journey
Jim OCDS

 

[Jenlyn]

Wonderful! I have no advise but I pray that God guides to where He wants you to be!

 

[Augustine]

I’m happy that you’re seeking out the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. The only advise I can give you is, be patient and pray, pray, pray.
Being an OCDS member isn’t easy. You’ll be joining a community, and communities all have their lettle quirks and problems. Some, like my former community, were all elderly, we eventually died out, literally.

Yes, I am a little wary about being the “mascot”, even at 40. Sometimes it does happen that I am the youngest person at daily Mass…

BTW, did you know that the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, are the only lay order, that you can make vows of chastity and obedience? All other 3rd orders, make promisses, but not vows.

I did not, but I know that OCD extends to its secular order the status that other orders don’t.

Thanks for the encouragement and prayers.

 

[Augustine]

Wonderful! I have no advise but I pray that God guides to where He wants you to be!

Thank you. All I want is to meet Him where He’s calling me to.

 

[Augustine]

The visit to the local OCDS community was a blast!

When I arrived I had an idea to check the cars for liberal bumper stickers, but i was glad to see but one car with them, and they were pro-life ones.

I was told to be there only after lunch and I could then enjoy great presentations on Carmelite texts and the Psalms. An OCD priest was also present, but he told me that it’s not usual.

The community was welcoming, but I had a little difficulty mingling. Not unusual due to my shyness and to the fact that I was the odd man out.

Speaking of being the odd man, I was afraid I would be a candidate for “mascot”, but although over 1/3 of the heads were white, I wasn’t the youngest person there.

Overall I felt very welcome. I did notice a brief moment of tension between two members, but I guess it’s part of the package of mankind.

The part I liked most was praying Vespers, a 1st for me. I really liked the monotone way of singing the prayers. Kudos to St. Teresa!

I look forward to the next meeting, when a small retreat is going to take place. However, it’s going to be on the same date as the meeting of the study group in a neighboring town. I am so excited about what I heard and saw today that I’m not sure that I need to inquiry another community.

Thanks and, please, pray that I open my heart to the calling of the Lord, wherever it leads me.

 

[FCEGM]

I’m so happy that your visit went well, Augustine. Sniff - makes me homesick for my Community in California.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The visit to the local OCDS community was a blast!

When I arrived I had an idea to check the cars for liberal bumper stickers, but i was glad to see but one car with them, and they were pro-life ones.

I was told to be there only after lunch and I could then enjoy great presentations on Carmelite texts and the Psalms. An OCD priest was also present, but he told me that it’s not usual.

The community was welcoming, but I had a little difficulty mingling. Not unusual due to my shyness and to the fact that I was the odd man out.

Speaking of being the odd man, I was afraid I would be a candidate for “mascot”, but although over 1/3 of the heads were white, I wasn’t the youngest person there.

Overall I felt very welcome. I did notice a brief moment of tension between two members, but I guess it’s part of the package of mankind.

The part I liked most was praying Vespers, a 1st for me. I really liked the monotone way of singing the prayers. Kudos to St. Teresa!

I look forward to the next meeting, when a small retreat is going to take place. However, it’s going to be on the same date as the meeting of the study group in a neighboring town. I am so excited about what I heard and saw today that I’m not sure that I need to inquiry another community.

Thanks and, please, pray that I open my heart to the calling of the Lord, wherever it leads me.

Sounds great!

Be sure that this group is following the Rule of Life, i.e. that they have elected officers and a formation director.

Did they provide you with a copy of the Constitutions for OCDS?!

Jim

 

[DBT]

I’m very happy for you, Augustine

Dave

 

[Augustine]

Jim,

Be sure that this group is following the Rule of Life, i.e. that they have elected officers and a formation director.

Did they provide you with a copy of the Constitutions for OCDS?!

One of the members is president of the provincial council, so I guess that it bodes well WRT abiding by the rules. But I am intrigued about your remark and wonder how I could make sure about that.

No, I left without anything beyond my notes.

As I recall the moments yesterday, I realize that the other 3 visitors had been invited by some member, but I contacted the community president and asked if I could visit. Perhaps I was imposing my presence on them…

Anyways, before leaving I asked if I could come back again and the president said that I’d be welcome at the next meeting for a retreat.

 

[DBT]

Hi Augustine -

Please be at peace that you no way imposed yourself on the community. Visitors are always welcome. Sometimes people are invited by members already in the community; sometimes people contact the council directely. In fact that’s how I got started . . . a call I made directly to the formation director.

On another note, yes, you are very fortunate that Elizabeth is President of the Provincial Council. You can rest assured that everything in your community will be on the straight and narrow since it is her responsibility to make sure ALL the communities in the multi-state region abide by the Constitutions etc.

In fact, just yesterday, at our monthly meeting here in St. Louis, we had a member of the Provincial Council - who works directly with Elizabeth - visit our community. It was a very enjoyable visit

Also, my guess is that once you approch the formation director about becoming an aspirant you’ll be given all the appropriate materials like the Constitutions. Right now they’re probably just very happy that you came for a visit . . . and waiting to see if you have enough interest to come back. And please don’t hesitate to call your president or formation director if you have any quesitons . . . I’m sure they’d love to hear from you

Dave

 

[Augustine]

Dave,

Thanks for the encouraging words.

This morning I left a message to the president apologizing if I imposed myself and stating that I learned a lot in the few hours that I was there. I should have also thanked for opening the doors again for the next meeting, but I forgot.

Indeed, it was amazing to listen to spiritual talks and to share my experiences with others going down a similar path. I’ve had an enduring realization of the presence of Our Lord since the meeting through Sunday. Praised be the Lord Jesus Christ forever.

Ah, I liked the monotone way of singing not only because it gives the prayer a rhythm, but also because even I can sing it without scaring angels and people away.