Visitor on a Holy Day

[Kathrin]

My aunt is visiting us (me and my parents) for a few days.
Today (Jan 1) is a Holy Day.
I am working from 9 to 4 so I went to church last night. That didn’t work out well for my aunt as she was going out with my parents later and the mass was quite far away.
I told her there is a mass today at 10, which I can’t go to, but she could (I have been to that church with her before on other visits, it’s quite close, she can walk).
She says she wouldn’t want to go without me.
There is a mass at 6pm in another town which I COULD go to but it would be a bit much after work, that’s mostly why I went last night.

Questions:
a) Is it ok to expect that she would go to the mass this morning without me or am I somehow morally obliged to make sure she gets to mass and offer AGAIN to go after work (I already offered it to her, but also said that I’d rather she go in the morning.)
b) In such situations, how specific are you with terms about mortal sin etc? I told her Jan 1st was like a Sunday, a Day when Catholics ahve to go to church (she usually goes on saturday nights where she sings in the choir). I avoided terms like “motal sin” or sin in general; I was afraid that such terms would put her (and especially my parents, who were with us, and who I still hope might come back to the church someday ) rather OFF from the church.

Difficult situation.

Kathrin

 

[SteveGC]

Questions:
a) Is it ok to expect that she would go to the mass this morning without me or am I somehow morally obliged to make sure she gets to mass and offer AGAIN to go after work

Your aunt is morally obliged to get to mass. Your expectations sound fine to me. Sounds to me like you’re doing the best you can to exhort a Catholic to do what they ought. You do, however, seem to have a unique opportunity here to make an impression on her. By making the sacrifice to go again with her after work, it may very well provide a good chance for you to explain exactly why you are willing to do so (namely, because you hold the Catholic faith in the highest regard, and know that following The Church’s guidance on faith and morals is so very important for ALL Catholics, not just yourself…etc. etc.) Just an idea there.

b) In such situations, how specific are you with terms about mortal sin etc?

Depends. Some people respond to the negative perspective of things more than they do the positive. I would wager that most do not, however. And so, I usually focus on the positives of avoiding mortal sin, as opposed to exposing someone’s precarious proximity to it. Given the nature of your family as you described, I would certainly think you should stay on the positive end of things. Doesn’t hurt to remind people about Church doctrine, though.

God Bless.

 

[06convert]

She is responsinble for her own salvation.

That being said, if you stand by and let her miss mass without saying anything, you have contributed by inaction and have thus sinned yourself.

You can say something like, "I love you and care for your soul, so I have to tell you that missing mass on a day of obligation is a sin. "

With all of that being said. If she will absolutely not go to mass unless she goes with you then you certainly have the option to be a humble servant of the Lord and take her to mass. You are not required, but it seems like something that God would smile upon you for. Remember don’t be prideful if you choose to do this.

 

[1ke]

a) Is it ok to expect that she would go to the mass this morning without me

Yes

or am I somehow morally obliged to make sure she gets to mass and offer AGAIN to go after work (I already offered it to her, but also said that I’d rather she go in the morning.)

No.

b) In such situations, how specific are you with terms about mortal sin etc? I told her Jan 1st was like a Sunday, a Day when Catholics ahve to go to church (she usually goes on saturday nights where she sings in the choir). I avoided terms like “motal sin” or sin in general; I was afraid that such terms would put her (and especially my parents, who were with us, and who I still hope might come back to the church someday ) rather OFF from the church.

You did fine. The rest is up to her.

 

[Kathrin]

Tell you how it went on.
I had to leave for work before I got any replies back here. My family was still in bed by the time I left.
On the train to work i decided to send my aunt a text message on her cell phone, hoping she would get it and check her messages… I wrote something like: “To explain again why this about church today is so important to me: To miss mass on a Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation (like today) is a grave sin after the Catholic faith. Thus I feel a bit responsible that you, as a visitor, go to mass too.”
So I used the words “grave sin” but didn’t say “mortal” (what is mortal and what cannot so easily be said anyway, right?)

From work I even called home and told my Mom to tell my aunt that I wrote her a message on her phone.

It doesn’t look like she went though. They got up after 10 am I think. It is not for me to judge how grave her sin is (mitigating factors like maybe she doesn’t really believe it, maybe she feels obliged to eat brunch and dinner with her hosts,…) Anyway, just before I got home tonight I lit a candle in the church here for her and for everybody and prayed for her any everyone else who may need prayers too.
Maybe you can say a prayer for her and for my family too?

Anyway, thanks for the replies!

Oh, by the way, I DID offer already yesterday to go again with her after work, I just did also tell her that I’d rather she go in the morning. I am afraid now that she may have not gone in order for me to not have to go.

Well, anyway, I went to another church after work, not to mass, but to bring some leftover food from the care home I work at to a homeless girl I know.

Kathrin

p.s.

Something that went through my head this morning: If somebody doesn’t know that missing church is a mortal sin, that would not make it a mortal sin for the, right? Because they weren’t aware of it?
So, if I, who knows, don’t tell them, in order for them not to sin mortally, would that “give” ME the mortal sin?

It was not exactly like this here because I am really not SURE if my aunt knows or not, and since she grew up Catholic I can assume she has learned it… And I did not NOT tell her, I just didn’t use the word mortal, but not in order for her not to know but because of the other reasons I mentioned… (I hope??) But if it was a clear-cut case like that, what would you say?

 

[Kathrin]

This whole thing resulted in a quite good discussion about faith in my family tonight.

Thank you for any prayers, by the way.

I know a bot more about my aunt’s faith now too. It may have been easier to judge how to behave if I had known beforehand.

Kathrin

 

[SteveGC]

This whole thing resulted in a quite good discussion about faith in my family tonight.

Thank you for any prayers, by the way.

I know a bot more about my aunt’s faith now too. It may have been easier to judge how to behave if I had known beforehand.

Kathrin

God answers prayers. God brings light out of darkness.

God is good.

As for the mortal sin part, it’s difficult to say. But it sounds to me like no one in this story is culpable. Seems to me that if your aunt was fully aware of the graveness of Mass obligations, she would be there. Some would say however that she is not “invincibly” ignorant - she has the means and faculties to know the teaching - and therefore she is culpable of mortal sin, as are all Catholics who miss Mass purposefully. That’s a touchy area of “knowledge of the sinfulness” when it comes to mortal sin, because of the debate over being Catholic, yet not knowing the obligations. On the other hand, if she now KNOWS of this obligation, she certainly is now bound to it. Some would then argue that it would’ve been better for her not to ever know, but that is rubbish. We face and obey truth, not run from it.

Seems to me like your sin of omission (not telling her to go) is venial at best, otherwise all Catholics are culpable of mortal sin for that. I would wager that we all know someone who doesn’t abide by Mass attendance norms. Not that we should feel OK about this, but I just feel that it’s not of a *mortal *nature for the one who omits the exhortation. I don’t proclaim to know that for certain. But, there’s a danger in becoming overly scrupulous about ourselves if we worry too much about that. In your case, your intent was to confront and exhort, you just omitted it because you found difficulty in doing so in a charitable and harmonious way. By and large, I think that’s why all good Catholics commit sins of omission like that. Our heart is there, we just lack the fortitude and courage. Maybe a grave thing, but it’s debatable. At any rate, we should consistenlty pray for these gifts of fortitude and courage. And of course, when in doubt, go to confession.

Anyway, happy to hear that family bonds may have been strengthened through all this. God Bless.

 

[Kathrin]

I would wager that we all know someone who doesn’t abide by Mass attendance norms. Not that we should feel OK about this, but I just feel that it’s not of a *mortal *nature for the one who omits the exhortation. I don’t proclaim to know that for certain.
SteveGC;4614790:

Our heart is there, we just lack the fortitude and courage. Maybe a grave thing, but it’s debatable.

One way to see it is also that coming back to the Faith for a lapsed Catholic orgetting to know and understand and thus hopefully LOVE the rules for someone who doesn’t yet may be a process - and something that may be even hindered by another person TELLING them to.

I don’t necessarily think that was the case in this case, but I am not sure. (I think it IS the case with my parents ).

I came back to the church without another person telling me to. I started going to mass again sometimes, the most times (without knowing everything about attendance rules). Then I decided to get confirmed at around the age of 24 (I hadn’t been at the regular age), went through RCIA and learned more… at the same time going through a process of inner faith-searching that has a lot to do with charity and a simple lifestyle and sharing.

My aunt needs prayers anyway. She has re-married. She says she feels forgiven because of her circumstances. (We talked about stuff like this last night too). I just hope she will be ok. He husband is here with us right now. He doesn’t usually go to church (but again, it may be a process ).
My aunt sings in a chuch choir on Saturday evenings so she usually goes to mass.

Thanks for any prayers.
I want everybody to be able to share in God’s love.

Kathrin

 

[SteveGC]

This is very true. I remember in RCIA, they used to always say…“this is your journey. No two are alike. We are here to help and teach. It is a process”.

Of course, it helps if we can actually get folks into RCIA so they can hear these words!

Many profess to be most attracted to the faith by the EXAMPLE of other faithful…as opposed to the PRODDING of other faithful. There’s something to that.

My wife is a cradle Catholic, and she drifted in her early adult years as so many do. What brought her back were two things, she says. Her baptism…and the example of her mother, a devout Catholic.

I sometimes wonder how many we lose from The Church by being overly aggressive with our evangelization. I think the trick is to not put the cart before the horse. We have to get right with OURSELVES first…be the best Christian we can be, live it out daily…be the example. And THEN the opportunities to talk about it with others will come. I’m guilty sometimes of reversing the process…putting my spiritual growth on hold, falling victim to more worldly behavior, while simultaneously trying to talk people back to Christ. Doesn’t work that way. Makes sense that it wouldn’t.

St. Francis would (and did) say: “preach the gospel at all times…when necessary, use words”

God Bless.

 

[Soutane]

I think she’s blackmailing you.

 

[Kathrin]

I think she’s blackmailing you.

Oh, no, I really don’t think so. She didn’t ask me to do anything.

 

[Ruthie]

You used the right word, “grave.” We are not equipped to read minds, and that is the only way for us to know if someone commits a mortal sin.

I think you did what you could, in charity, do. Therefore, it is in no way your responsibility that she failed to go to Mass. It’s hers. You gave her plenty of opportunity to make the right choice. She is the one who *made *the choice.

God bless you,

Ruthie