Visits with this person an occasion of sin

[As_for_my_House]

I have a person in my life with whom I am forced associate.

I would prefer our visits to be focused on what we are doing ( watching a movie, shopping etc) We share a few associations with other people and this is where this person constantly(obsessively)focuses our conversation. Some of the people she talks about are people I like and care about and some frankly are people I do not like and some of the people are people I do not have a relationship with at all. I am of the mindset that if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all. Her conversation is always about the business of other people. Often it seems to be designed to get a rise out of me. I don’t mind occasional news about so and so but I don’t want a full report on a 24 year old person with whom I barely have a relationship, on their dating life. These conversations always ask my opinion or beg for a comment. I have tried many strategies, acting distracted, pretending I didn’t hear, acting bored, changing the subject. She will then pause but immediately goes back to the gossip at the next opportunity. It seems hopeless to try to steer the conversation.

I am aware that she will carry any comments I make to other people and has hurt others by taking my comments (usually innocent) out of context or twisting my words. She carries many negative story about others, people I barely know to me also. I just let that go in one ear and out the other but it still gets me upset when she shares personal things with a judgmental comment like “I don’t know why she did that” I usually say, people have their reasons or it not mine to say but she will press and press.

My other stress about this relationship is that we don’t share the same moral values and I do have strong opinions about some of the sordid things she tells me about these people. She on the other hand, is person who thinks that people should be able do all kinds of immoral thing as long as it makes them happy.

My husband is the reason, I feel obligated to associate with this person at all. He is also clueless about many teachings on morality, so he does not get it.
I am beginning to think that this person (she is an in-law) is becoming a near occasion of sin for me and that my obligation to her is less important than my own soul.

What to do?

 

[pensmama87]

If this person is your husband’s mother, I don’t see why you would be obligated to spend so much time together, especially if nobody else is present. I actually get along very well with my mother-in-law, but we almost never hang out, just the two of us, and I prefer it that way.

I would suggest you tell your husband that you prefer not to spend so much time with this person because you find it frustrating. You married him and he married you. If you make the decision to grit your teeth and deal with it once in a while, as a favor to him, then that’s fine, but I think either you are putting too much on yourself (or your husband is) for you to view this association as an obligation.

 

[angell1]

I have a person in my life with whom I am forced associate.

I would prefer our visits to be focused on what we are doing ( watching a movie, shopping etc) We share a few associations with other people and this is where this person constantly(obsessively)focuses our conversation. Some of the people she talks about are people I like and care about and some frankly are people I do not like and some of the people are people I do not have a relationship with at all. I am of the mindset that if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all. Her conversation is always about the business of other people. Often it seems to be designed to get a rise out of me. I don’t mind occasional news about so and so but I don’t want a full report on a 24 year old person with whom I barely have a relationship, on their dating life. These conversations always ask my opinion or beg for a comment. I have tried many strategies, acting distracted, pretending I didn’t hear, acting bored, changing the subject. She will then pause but immediately goes back to the gossip at the next opportunity. It seems hopeless to try to steer the conversation.

I am aware that she will carry any comments I make to other people and has hurt others by taking my comments (usually innocent) out of context or twisting my words. She carries many negative story about others, people I barely know to me also. I just let that go in one ear and out the other but it still gets me upset when she shares personal things with a judgmental comment like “I don’t know why she did that” I usually say, people have their reasons or it not mine to say but she will press and press.

My other stress about this relationship is that we don’t share the same moral values and I do have strong opinions about some of the sordid things she tells me about these people. She on the other hand, is person who thinks that people should be able do all kinds of immoral thing as long as it makes them happy.

My husband is the reason, I feel obligated to associate with this person at all. He is also clueless about many teachings on morality, so he does not get it.
I am beginning to think that this person (she is an in-law) is becoming a near occasion of sin for me and that my obligation to her is less important than my own soul.

What to do?

you know, I was recently at a student conference on medicine and this exact thing happened.

there was this girl that a lot of people thought was weird, I’m not sure why, I didn’t have any problems with her. anyways, the whole week, whenever she wasn’t around, they would all start talking about her and gossiping. for the most part, I tried to do other things or stay out of the conversation but they kept trying to get me involved. so eventually, I very bluntly said “I don’t think it’s very courteous to talk about others when they’re not around”

maybe that’s what you need to do? I know it sounds harsh but sometimes it’s necessary

 

[SoulSolace]

you know, I was recently at a student conference on medicine and this exact thing happened.

there was this girl that a lot of people thought was weird, I’m not sure why, I didn’t have any problems with her. anyways, the whole week, whenever she wasn’t around, they would all start talking about her and gossiping. for the most part, I tried to do other things or stay out of the conversation but they kept trying to get me involved. so eventually, I very bluntly said “I don’t think it’s very courteous to talk about others when they’re not around”

maybe that’s what you need to do? I know it sounds harsh but sometimes it’s necessary

The person who doesn’t want to participate in gossip is often left with the decision to either offend others (those being gossiped about), or offending the person enticing them to gossip.
On too few occasions, I have chosen the latter.

God bless.

 

[SoulSolace]

I have a person in my life with whom I am forced associate.

I would prefer our visits to be focused on what we are doing ( watching a movie, shopping etc) We share a few associations with other people and this is where this person constantly(obsessively)focuses our conversation. Some of the people she talks about are people I like and care about and some frankly are people I do not like and some of the people are people I do not have a relationship with at all. I am of the mindset that if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all. Her conversation is always about the business of other people. Often it seems to be designed to get a rise out of me. I don’t mind occasional news about so and so but I don’t want a full report on a 24 year old person with whom I barely have a relationship, on their dating life. These conversations always ask my opinion or beg for a comment. I have tried many strategies, acting distracted, pretending I didn’t hear, acting bored, changing the subject. She will then pause but immediately goes back to the gossip at the next opportunity. It seems hopeless to try to steer the conversation.

I am aware that she will carry any comments I make to other people and has hurt others by taking my comments (usually innocent) out of context or twisting my words. She carries many negative story about others, people I barely know to me also. I just let that go in one ear and out the other but it still gets me upset when she shares personal things with a judgmental comment like “I don’t know why she did that” I usually say, people have their reasons or it not mine to say but she will press and press.

My other stress about this relationship is that we don’t share the same moral values and I do have strong opinions about some of the sordid things she tells me about these people. She on the other hand, is person who thinks that people should be able do all kinds of immoral thing as long as it makes them happy.

My husband is the reason, I feel obligated to associate with this person at all. He is also clueless about many teachings on morality, so he does not get it.
I am beginning to think that this person (she is an in-law) is becoming a near occasion of sin for me and that my obligation to her is less important than my own soul.

What to do?

I have often told a young relative of mine, that if she gossips with one person about others, when she leaves that conversation the person she gossiped with, will gossip about her, and will be thinking that she (the young relative) is doing likewise to her.

It’s a tough situation, but you can take the bull by the horns.

God bless you.

 

[As_for_my_House]

I must be terrible at handling people who gossip. Even as a child I was repulsed by gossip and preferred to be alone rather than have friends who gossip about others. I am always at a loss as to what to say. Gossips usually don’t back down, at least with me, and my experience is they will turn on anyone who calls them out.

For me, when it comes to talk about other people, unless I know them well and can help or am talking about my own problem with someone to a trusted friend, I simple don’t care to talk about people. This is why your (name removed by moderator)ut is so valuable. I don’t care to take this to anyone else.
Here I can receive counsel in without revealing personal information.

This lady is a pro. She has done this her whole long life.
The people who participate with her, love gossip. There are enough of them to cause many hard feelings and division in the family. The ones who don’t (most of her extended family) do not bother with her. It is mostly women. I have had a sister-in-law call me up screaming at me because they have been led to believe I am a horrible person who keeps their brother for them.
I have not done this. It is the MIL and the gossiping SILs and a cousin who have caused division. The MIL’s sister and both of her daughters finally decided to ditch her and her sister’s daughters, they no longer speak. MIL’s grandchildren only send cards but never visit.

I want to ditch her too but I am married to her son. It’s his mother and he just doesn’t see it. He a little naïve and she is very clever. She plays up to men but tears women apart.

 

[Xantippe]

I must be terrible at handling people who gossip. Even as a child I was repulsed by gossip and preferred to be alone rather than have friends who gossip about others. I am always at a loss as to what to say. Gossips usually don’t back down, at least with me, and my experience is they will turn on anyone who calls them out.

For me, when it comes to talk about other people, unless I know them well and can help or am talking about my own problem with someone to a trusted friend, I simple don’t care to talk about people. This is why your (name removed by moderator)ut is so valuable. I don’t care to take this to anyone else.
Here I can receive counsel in without revealing personal information.

This lady is a pro. She has done this her whole long life.
The people who participate with her, love gossip. There are enough of them to cause many hard feelings and division in the family. The ones who don’t (most of her extended family) do not bother with her. It is mostly women. I have had a sister-in-law call me up screaming at me because they have been led to believe I am a horrible person who keeps their brother for them.
I have not done this. It is the MIL and the gossiping SILs and a cousin who have caused division. The MIL’s sister and both of her daughters finally decided to ditch her and her sister’s daughters, they no longer speak. MIL’s grandchildren only send cards but never visit.

I want to ditch her too but I am married to her son. It’s his mother and he just doesn’t see it. He a little naïve and she is very clever. She plays up to men but tears women apart.

There’s no reason for the two of you to do “girl stuff” together by yourselves. You can do group stuff with your husband that involves her, or husband can do solo stuff with her. There’s no need for you to be buddy buddy with her–no woman in my family has ever had this kind of relationship with their MIL. And really, do your husband and your dad do a lot of stuff together?

Don’t cut her off cold turkey–you can taper it off until you are meeting with a frequency that’s acceptable to you without it being hugely dramatic.

There are lots of wonderful, uplifting people that you will be a blessing with–spend more time with them.

 

[mommamaree]

I have a similar problem. I do not get the desire to gossip.
But my MIL gossips or complains. It is either one or the other. I don’t get to talk with her about anything interesting ever. If I try, she tunes me out and changes the topic. Things like hobbies, interesting things that have happened in our family, fun events, plans…none of it can hold her interest.
Recently, my husband and I were regaled with the story of how my husband’s BIL asks my husband’s sister for marital relations in a very specific way. My SIL was outside playing with her preschooler, so apparently my MIL thought it was a good opportunity to betray her own daughter and reveal a juicy secret. And then, to drive home the point of the story, she repeated the story, word for word, as if we hadn’t heard it the first time. My husband and I are just sick to death of having to hear such garbage. He pretends he hasn’t heard, I make no response, and I have started making such pointed comments as “well, I can only imagine what you have told her that I shared in confidence with you”.
This is a common, perennial problem for families. I have completely withdrawn from her, and all others in the family, and only seek out conversation with people who want to enjoy the fun and interesting topics for conversation, like fly fishing and Pinterest and DIY home repair and projects. I do not spend any unnecessary time alone with any family members that gossip. And I am always aware that anything I say or do is fair game for gossip, so it does make me a bit paranoid. My SIL and I are completely alienated from each other, mostly, in my opinion, because of how much they gossip about me behind my back, because later, my MIL will inform me of the mean things that SIL has said about me. Sigh.
It isn’t easy. I am tired of it all. I am very, very glad to live over 600 miles away.

 

[As_for_my_House]

I have a similar problem. I do not get the desire to gossip.
But my MIL gossips or complains. It is either one or the other. I don’t get to talk with her about anything interesting ever. If I try, she tunes me out and changes the topic. Things like hobbies, interesting things that have happened in our family, fun events, plans…none of it can hold her interest.
Recently, my husband and I were regaled with the story of how my husband’s BIL asks my husband’s sister for marital relations in a very specific way. My SIL was outside playing with her preschooler, so apparently my MIL thought it was a good opportunity to betray her own daughter and reveal a juicy secret. And then, to drive home the point of the story, she repeated the story, word for word, as if we hadn’t heard it the first time. My husband and I are just sick to death of having to hear such garbage. He pretends he hasn’t heard, I make no response, and I have started making such pointed comments as “well, I can only imagine what you have told her that I shared in confidence with you”.
This is a common, perennial problem for families. I have completely withdrawn from her, and all others in the family, and only seek out conversation with people who want to enjoy the fun and interesting topics for conversation, like fly fishing and Pinterest and DIY home repair and projects. I do not spend any unnecessary time alone with any family members that gossip. And I am always aware that anything I say or do is fair game for gossip, so it does make me a bit paranoid. My SIL and I are completely alienated from each other, mostly, in my opinion, because of how much they gossip about me behind my back, because later, my MIL will inform me of the mean things that SIL has said about me. Sigh.
It isn’t easy. I am tired of it all. I am very, very glad to live over 600 miles away.

Your situation sounds very similar. Except that your husband seems to get it.
Mine does not.
He is so used to her gossip. It is never aimed at him (her golden boy). It doesn’t faze him.

I’m sorry this is sounding more like me ranting. I wish I could find a way to shut her gossip down but I know it I cross her she will cause more trouble.

Do you have any insight as to why your MIL behaves this way? Perhaps there is a prescription for dealing with this type of person , as one poster said, it is a common problem.

 

[mommamaree]

Your situation sounds very similar. Except that your husband seems to get it.
Mine does not.
He is so used to her gossip. It is never aimed at him (her golden boy). It doesn’t faze him.

I’m sorry this is sounding more like me ranting. I wish I could find a way to shut her gossip down but I know it I cross her she will cause more trouble.

Do you have any insight as to why your MIL behaves this way? Perhaps there is a prescription for dealing with this type of person , as one poster said, it is a common problem.

No, I am sorry that I do not have a clue about why she does it. But I will say that her daughter, my SIL, is known for her haste to escalate and judge harshly, and much effort must be put into not offending her. (I was told to get out of the house once for just saying I didn’t want to discuss a topic that I was getting interrogated about.) There seems to be some kind of negative cycle in the family. My husband did not choose that path, and is so very different from his mother and sister, yet for at least a decade, we did not discuss the elephant in the room. He was so used to managing their moods for them and walking on eggshells around them and he expected me to follow suit. I tried but it didn’t work. I actually love them, and desire a closer, healthier relationship with them, but I recognize that distance is better for them. I present a near occasion of sin for my MIL, as she is likely to betray her daughter and everyone else if she has the opportunity to talk with me behind their back. I remove myself from her presence, and she has one less occasion for sin (gossip and betrayal). It is sad, and she has actually gotten worse as she has gotten older. It has helped me somewhat to simply attribute it to her mind going a bit. I simply suppose her memory and discretion are diminishing. I try to treat everything she gossips about as potentially the ramblings of a person with senility.

One more thing to add: the golden boy thing sounds all too familiar, too. My husband was treated similarly, only it also included an aspect of him being a surrogate spouse for her since she divorced his father while he was still quite young. Over time, when necessity required him to no longer acquiesce to her whims and when he had firmly established the reality of him being bound and loyal to his wife and children, that golden boy treatment tapered off. It gets used again at times, but my husband is now always prepared for the next down turn in the relationship where he is blamed for his sister’s insecurities and loneliness.

 

[Xantippe]

God bless you and thank you for sharing. You know, I read your post three times seeking a reason for you to cut off your relationship with your mother-in-law, however it seems that she is just a gossip. I don’t see that she is doing anything other than being annoying or rude to you, which is extremely annoying to you but not necessarily profoundly evil to you if that makes any sense.

Gossip takes TWO things: lips and ears. You need to cease to be the ears. Maybe by being a “good listener” all of these years you unfortunately crossed the line and got the reputation as someone that would sit quietly and listen to anything and everything which should not be the case. People need to know you will listen to them in a crisis and be a good friend, but people need to know you are not the person to come to with all of their gossip and nonsense.

As she is your mother-in-law it would be wise not to be confrontational, you can be polite but still be firm. Simply smile and say “I don’t have an opinion really.” when she presses you and repeat the same words over and over and over again. Keep saying “I don’t have an opinion really” 50 times in a row if you have to, don’t try to think up another comeback. You cannot be subtle with this woman. You are getting frustrated because she is not getting your hints, well she is never going to get your hints but you already know that which is why you want to run away.

Yes. Be boring. Don’t offer juicy morsels, and don’t be a good listener.

Best wishes!

 

[mommamaree]

Yes. Be boring. Don’t offer juicy morsels, and don’t be a good listener.

Best wishes!

Pretty much my strategy in a nutshell. My MIL can be quite difficult to listen to, but she also does really care about taking good care of the grand babies and being helpful. She has many wonderful qualities, but I have to make sure that we do not have much time to sit and chat, because those opportunities bring out her worst qualities. I would encourage the OP to do her best to identify the strengths of her MIL and learn ways to draw those out. Is she a good planner? Great! Ask for her help to plan something and keep her on task in a humorous, gentle way. Is she an expert gardener? Wonderful. Ask for her expertise to put in a new bed in the garden, and keep to such topics, interrupting in a self-depricating sort of way (“sorry to make this all about me right now but I really need to pick your brain so I can learn how to do the wonderful gardening you can do!”) Is she a fabulous cook? Awesome! Bring up conversations about recipes and cooking techniques as often as possible.

The point is, offer her as many opportunities to enjoy delightful conversation on interesting topics that harm no one, as often as possible. Then, when she lapses into gossip, pretend you have gone deaf, or express your lack of opinion, or even be very forthright about the fact that you do not wish to discuss other people’s lives. Then follow up quickly with “now, about cucumbers…how do you prepare your garden bed for those?”

I have to work very hard to avoid giving an opportunity to gossip to my MIL, or an opportunity to escalate to my SIL, but it is worth it for everyone. Sometimes I wonder if gossips feel stuck in a rut and unable to come up with interesting conversation or unable to connect with others on their own power without resorting to scandal…?

 

[Annie39]

I have a person in my life with whom I am forced associate.

I would prefer our visits to be focused on what we are doing ( watching a movie, shopping etc) We share a few associations with other people and this is where this person constantly(obsessively)focuses our conversation. Some of the people she talks about are people I like and care about and some frankly are people I do not like and some of the people are people I do not have a relationship with at all. I am of the mindset that if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all. Her conversation is always about the business of other people. Often it seems to be designed to get a rise out of me. I don’t mind occasional news about so and so but I don’t want a full report on a 24 year old person with whom I barely have a relationship, on their dating life. These conversations always ask my opinion or beg for a comment. I have tried many strategies, acting distracted, pretending I didn’t hear, acting bored, changing the subject. She will then pause but immediately goes back to the gossip at the next opportunity. It seems hopeless to try to steer the conversation.

I am aware that she will carry any comments I make to other people and has hurt others by taking my comments (usually innocent) out of context or twisting my words. She carries many negative story about others, people I barely know to me also. I just let that go in one ear and out the other but it still gets me upset when she shares personal things with a judgmental comment like “I don’t know why she did that” I usually say, people have their reasons or it not mine to say but she will press and press.

My other stress about this relationship is that we don’t share the same moral values and I do have strong opinions about some of the sordid things she tells me about these people. She on the other hand, is person who thinks that people should be able do all kinds of immoral thing as long as it makes them happy.

My husband is the reason, I feel obligated to associate with this person at all. He is also clueless about many teachings on morality, so he does not get it.
I am beginning to think that this person (she is an in-law) is becoming a near occasion of sin for me and that my obligation to her is less important than my own soul.

What to do?

I could have written this several years ago. She is indeed looking for comments that she can tell the person you commented on as a way to cause problems for you. You should drop her right now. The person in my life is not allowed in my house I don’t care what anyone says. If this person is your husbands sister it might be a little more difficult but it is worth the hassel. I can’t tell you how much better life is now.

Annie

 

[EasterJoy]

One of the best strategies is to talk as if the person were standing behind her, listening in.

“Do you really think she’d approve of you talking about her love life? I wouldn’t like that.”

“Well, I’m sure there is a good explanation. He has always been very kind to me.”

“You don’t know what kind of stress he was under that day.”

And then there is the blunt one: “I’d really rather talk about something else, rather than gossip about Sally. I always feel that’s something I’d rather people not do to me.”

“Let’s talk about you. What’s been going on with you, lately?”

 

[As_for_my_House]

One more thing to add: the golden boy thing sounds all too familiar, too. My husband was treated similarly, only it also included an aspect of him being a surrogate spouse for her since she divorced his father while he was still quite young. Over time, when necessity required him to no longer acquiesce to her whims and when he had firmly established the reality of him being bound and loyal to his wife and children, that golden boy treatment tapered off. It gets used again at times, but my husband is now always prepared for the next down turn in the relationship where he is blamed for his sister’s insecurities and loneliness.

All of your stories sound so familiar. My MIL is divorced, aged, and had her live-in boyfriend die so now she is alone, hence my husbands guilt to see her regularly. SILs are always acting offended on the occasions I have any contact with them. MILs wants her son to keep close ties to his sisters and I am accused of being the one keeping him away.
First I have never done this. He has a weird almost phony relationship with them that I don’t understand but I think it has something to do with " his walking on eggshells" so throughout our dating and marriage he has had long periods to little contact with his family both on their part and on his. I for the most part have been treated as an outsider.

Second, we are very busy people with many other obligations that limit our ability to have frequent contact with any extended family. We barely have time for our own family because of the demands of the business we own together, but that’s another stressful story.

 

[As_for_my_House]

There’s no reason for the two of you to do “girl stuff” together by yourselves. You can do group stuff with your husband that involves her, or husband can do solo stuff with her. There’s no need for you to be buddy buddy with her–no woman in my family has ever had this kind of relationship with their MIL. And really, do your husband and your dad do a lot of stuff together?

Don’t cut her off cold turkey–you can taper it off until you are meeting with a frequency that’s acceptable to you without it being hugely dramatic.

There are lots of wonderful, uplifting people that you will be a blessing with–spend more time with them.

My husband is obligates me to visit her with him. He hates to go alone. He says because we have so little free time together that he wants to be with me when he visits her.
This is probably only a partial truth because me not being there forces him to interact with her and he can’t handle it. The one time I sent him alone, he said when he left she said she needed to lie down. I asked him what he did and got the story that he harassed her about her cheapness. Unfortunately everything he said was true. This is one way they interact when I am not around, another way is when she tries to control him and he allows it. I think he harasses her to shut her manipulations down because he doesn’t know how else to deal with her.

I wish I had time for uplifting people, I know they are out there. You are probably one of them. God bless.

 

[EasterJoy]

This lady is a pro. She has done this her whole long life.

The people who participate with her, love gossip. There are enough of them to cause many hard feelings and division in the family. The ones who don’t (most of her extended family) do not bother with her. It is mostly women. I have had a sister-in-law call me up screaming at me because they have been led to believe I am a horrible person who keeps their brother for them.

I have not done this. It is the MIL and the gossiping SILs and a cousin who have caused division. The MIL’s sister and both of her daughters finally decided to ditch her and her sister’s daughters, they no longer speak. MIL’s grandchildren only send cards but never visit.

I want to ditch her too but I am married to her son. It’s his mother and he just doesn’t see it. He a little naïve and she is very clever. She plays up to men but tears women apart.

Just keep turning the conversation to saying nice things about her children and grandchildren. Talk as if you are taking whatever she says about anyone in the nicest possible way.

“Tara has a real loser as a boyfriend.”
“Oh, I haven’t met him. I hope you’re mistaken, because Tara deserves the best.”
…she goes on to reiterate that he is a louse…
“Well, we’ll be here for Tara, for better or worse. Maybe he’ll surprise everyone. We can hope. How about Michael–did his team do well this season?”

Good luck. Remember: any landing you walk away from is a good one, and any suffering you endure because you did the right thing will be rewarded. If you are bad-mouthed by a bitter, lonely old woman and offer it up on her behalf and ask Heaven to forgive her as you would an enemy, your faithfulness will not go without its reward.

 

[Irishmom2]

I think there comes a time when you need to be honest and you need to be totally clear about what you are saying. No dancing around what is going on.

“I’m sorry, I will not listen if you continue to speak about…like that.”

“Please stop, I am not interested in hearing any gossip.”

 

[EasterJoy]

I think there comes a time when you need to be honest and you need to be totally clear about what you are saying. No dancing around what is going on.

“I’m sorry, I will not listen if you continue to speak about…like that.”

“Please stop, I am not interested in hearing any gossip.”

Sometimes the direct approach is the only one with any chance to work, since the law frowns on using a bat to drive home a rhetorical point.

 

[Irishmom2]

Sometimes the direct approach is the only one with any chance to work, since the law frowns on using a bat to drive home a rhetorical point.

So true.