Vocation & Eliminating personal debt

[Epistemes]

Over the next two years (perhaps sooner, God willing), I hope to eliminate my personal debt, which includes some credit card debt and an auto loan, so that I can finally pursue my religious vocation, which I believe God has been calling me to. I’m considering the Trappists or the Franciscans.

My goal is to definitely eliminate my credit card debt by May 2011. By that time, however, if I continue making the minimum payment on my auto loan, I’ll still owe roughly $14,000. To make more than the minimum payment would require me working longer hours at my current job, or acquiring a second job.

My question is this:

Is it a good idea to sell the car after those two years have expired?

NOTE: I cannot sell the car now because I can’t pay the difference, should there be one. Also, if I sell the car in two years, that’ll be it: I will own no car.

Do you think this would adversely affect me? (For example: if I choose to be a Capuchin Franciscan, will I have any need for a car?)

Is it a better idea just to try to pay off the car completely in two years?

(NOTE: Two years is pretty much my limit. Why? Because I’m sacrificing a lot to hopefully bring this religious vocation into final fruition, and I’ve asked my skeptical parents to allow me two years to decide in which direction I want to go and to pay down on the car. I am nearing 30, I’ve made some horrible financial decisions in my past, and I’m only now achieving some sense of direction.)

 

[bilop]

Over the next two years (perhaps sooner, God willing), I hope to eliminate my personal debt, which includes some credit card debt and an auto loan, so that I can finally pursue my religious vocation, which I believe God has been calling me to. I’m considering the Trappists or the Franciscans.

My goal is to definitely eliminate my credit card debt by May 2011. By that time, however, if I continue making the minimum payment on my auto loan, I’ll still owe roughly $14,000. To make more than the minimum payment would require me working longer hours at my current job, or acquiring a second job.

My question is this:

Is it a good idea to sell the car after those two years have expired?

NOTE: I cannot sell the car now because I can’t pay the difference, should there be one. Also, if I sell the car in two years, that’ll be it: I will own no car.

Do you think this would adversely affect me? (For example: if I choose to be a Capuchin Franciscan, will I have any need for a car?)

Is it a better idea just to try to pay off the car completely in two years?

(NOTE: Two years is pretty much my limit. Why? Because I’m sacrificing a lot to hopefully bring this religious vocation into final fruition, and I’ve asked my skeptical parents to allow me two years to decide in which direction I want to go and to pay down on the car. I am nearing 30, I’ve made some horrible financial decisions in my past, and I’m only now achieving some sense of direction.)

Have you thought about approaching some Catholic organizations that provide financial support for vocations? There’s the Laboure (sp?) group, Mater Ecclessiae Fund, the K of C, the Serrans, to name a few.

Also, if you’re close to 30, why do you need to get your parents permission? You’re an adult, you need to follow your vocation. Would you ask your parents permission to marry, if that was your vocation?

May God Blees your vocation abundantly!

I will say a prayer for you.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

I think you really have an important decision to make. I don’t think it is wise to wait two years until you start pursuing your vocation. Sure, you may still have one by then, but doubt in the human mind causes changes. You may not feel the same in 2 years as you do now.

You say that you need to find a way to make more than the minimum payment on your bills. If it’s a new car, have you thought about trading it for a used car and using whatever money you get for the car towards your bills? It’s not the same as selling, but it would decrease the balance on your loan, which you need.

I would definitely suggest that you sit down with a financial counselor and get yourself a spiritual director. Why are you waiting to receive your parents’ permission? You said yourself that you are nearly 30 years old. You are not under their approval anymore, and you may not get it if you wait for it.

 

[Epistemes]

I would definitely suggest that you sit down with a financial counselor and get yourself a spiritual director. Why are you waiting to receive your parents’ permission? You said yourself that you are nearly 30 years old. You are not under their approval anymore, and you may not get it if you wait for it.

Thank you for your advice. Right now, my pastor has been serving as my regular confessor and as something of a spiritual director. I want to schedule a meeting with him in order to discuss these new developments and continue doing so on a regular basis with either him or someone whom he thinks would serve as a more available director.

I am not waiting on my parents’ permission - I didn’t mean to insinuate that. The point I was trying to make is that I’ve been flandering for the past 5 years with no definite direction. I’ve felt since 2007 that I was being called to a religious vocation, but I was only confirmed in 2007, so I had to wait a couple years to see whether the call was real or not. In that time, I’ve made some very poor decisions, both personally and financially, because while the vocation has been a “goal,” I’ve lacked a sense of clarity on how to achieve it. My parents have one set of ideas for my life, and they themselves don’t understand why it will take two years for me to make a commitment to either the Trappists or the Franciscans, but they do understand that I need to get my debt somewhat settled, especially in this troubled economy. So while I’m not waiting on their permission, I am having to remain in their good graces since I currently live with them, and if this plan falls through for some reason, then I fear that I will become a burden on them and they fear that I will become a burden to myself.

Perhaps this very sorrowful e-mail from my mother explains their position better:

Good to know. I think his main concern is not having a backup plan and the fear of the unknown. Also, you’re going to really have to pray hard for me as I’m having a hard time with this. I can’t sleep and cry at every thought about it. I can hardly type this note. I know it’s my lack of understanding but I am so afraid as a Mom you won’t be happy if you chose living away from family and it seems to me away from the world. You have so much to offer people and I’ve always prayed God would open the right door for you. I just didn’t know you’d pick something that I don’t understand and that would take you away from us. You deserve to be happy, which is what we’ve always told you and I would NEVER stand in your way if you feel led by God. You have to follow his lead but I want you to be sure it’s His lead and not someone else’s influence. This would definitely be a hard decision for you to make I know. Then, as a Mom of course, I fear being alone if you moved away and something ever happened to Mike. I guess I just always thought you’d live close by but I know I’d be okay. I worry you’re choosing this because you don’t have that many friends, don’t have a girlfriend and you think with this, it wouldn’t matter and you’d have another family. Some men don’t find true love until their 40’s or 50’s. I worry if you chose to be a Franciscan you’d never come home, don’t know how you’d even get home, how would you pay for health and life insurance, and all those type things. My mind and I’m sure the Devil is giving me a hard time. I keep praying that the Lord will help me. We’ll need to talk much more and you can help me, I know. I can’t talk at work. Don’t be mad at me for being afraid. You’re the best son ever!

 

[OKCatholic]

Find a good financial adviser to counsel you on your debt reduction. Explain your situation and follow through with their advice. Sadly, financial obligations are a major factor in the discernment process. But, that doesn’t mean that past financial mistakes will forever bar you from religious life.

For most of the major religious orders (Capuchins, etc.) you will not need a personal vehicle. Diocesan seminarians usually need to have one. I would suggest further discernment about where you feel God is calling you and after careful consideration and much prayer, make a commitment. Develop a personal relationship with the vocations director of whichever order or diocese you choose and start working towards the goal of being able to apply without any hindrance or reservation.

I know how hard it is dealing with debt while discerning religious life. But, You owe it to yourself and your potential community to be an applicant who is able to take care of all previous obligations. If it takes a few years then it takes a few years.

Trust me, in the end it’s worth it.

Lance

 

[Epistemes]

Have you thought about approaching some Catholic organizations that provide financial support for vocations? There’s the Laboure (sp?) group, Mater Ecclessiae Fund, the K of C, the Serrans, to name a few.

I will say a prayer for you.

I’m going to apply for a grant through the Mater Ecclessiae Fund. In a way, I don’t want to since there are individuals out there who deserve the grant money more than me, individuals who are really struggling. While I will apply, I’m not going to expect anything. It seems like too easy of a fix for my poor financial history.

God bless!

 

[thelordssheep]

I completely disagree with the above advice that waiting two years is a bad idea. Frankly, it sounds like your only option right now, and God bless you for persisting in the fight!
If you can manage a second small job (even mowing lawns for elderly neighbors on the side) then do it. It may mean some very hard work, but God will fortify your desires and give you many graces for doing it. It takes a real man to own up to the fact that he has made bad decisions and to work to correct them, and this will make you a better Priest/Brother- or, if God wills it, a better husband- in the future.
In the meantime, look to see if there’s anything you can cut out of your life? Different cell phone plan- or get rid of the thing- That’ll save you a significant amount of money. Belong to a gym? Have anything (like collectibles) that you can sell? It sounds drastic to cut these things out, but the prize at the end is worth it.
For now, I also recommend that you contact the orders that interest you- this gives you: 1. something a bit more concrete to fuel your desires and 2. Some strong intercessory prayer for the days when it is difficult. Also, make sure you have a good spiritual director to help you through all of this.
God bless you!

 

[Poor_Clare_tobe]

Find a good financial adviser to counsel you on your debt reduction. Explain your situation and follow through with their advice. Sadly, financial obligations are a major factor in the discernment process. But, that doesn’t mean that past financial mistakes will forever bar you from religious life.

For most of the major religious orders (Capuchins, etc.) you will not need a personal vehicle. Diocesan seminarians usually need to have one. I would suggest further discernment about where you feel God is calling you and after careful consideration and much prayer, make a commitment. Develop a personal relationship with the vocations director of whichever order or diocese you choose and start working towards the goal of being able to apply without any hindrance or reservation.

I know how hard it is dealing with debt while discerning religious life. But, You owe it to yourself and your potential community to be an applicant who is able to take care of all previous obligations. If it takes a few years then it takes a few years.

Trust me, in the end it’s worth it.

Lance

OK Catholic has some very sound advice.

To add just a bit to it. (Mostly a repeat… just different words…sorry if redundant…but important for you to have a plan here)…(BTW OK catholic perhaps said it better)

1. Discern and confirm with your spiritual director that indeed you do have a vocation.
2. If you do indeed have a calling do not wait two full years to act upon it. Now would be the time to contact various communities or Dioceses to find out where you would wish to end up. ( Your Spiritual Director and the Vocations Director for your Diocese would be able to help out in that respect)
3. It is good that you have a plan to get rid of your debt in two years. Stick with the plan… as things progress… if you are indeed called …perhaps there will be some help in the future?
4. Lastly… Do not get rid of your car. You will may need it during seminary, or the order may need it, at the very least… if you enter an order most communities will encourage you to keep belongings (somewhere) until vows [just in case]…if you do decide to dispose of it… is there any family member that perhaps needs the funds? This is the last thing for you to worry about at the moment… priority one… validate the calling. Priority two begin paying off the debts. Priority three if called to religious life find out where and what community. Once accepted then worry about what to do with property…
   Blessings of Peace and All Good!

 

[anode]

OK Catholic has some very sound advice.

To add just a bit to it. (Mostly a repeat… just different words…sorry if redundant…but important for you to have a plan here)…(BTW OK catholic perhaps said it better)

1. Discern and confirm with your spiritual director that indeed you do have a vocation.
2. If you do indeed have a calling do not wait two full years to act upon it. Now would be the time to contact various communities or Dioceses to find out where you would wish to end up. ( Your Spiritual Director and the Vocations Director for your Diocese would be able to help out in that respect)
3. It is good that you have a plan to get rid of your debt in two years. Stick with the plan… as things progress… if you are indeed called …perhaps there will be some help in the future?
4. Lastly… Do not get rid of your car. You will may need it during seminary, or the order may need it, at the very least… if you enter an order most communities will encourage you to keep belongings (somewhere) until vows [just in case]…if you do decide to dispose of it… is there any family member that perhaps needs the funds? This is the last thing for you to worry about at the moment… priority one… validate the calling. Priority two begin paying off the debts. Priority three if called to religious life find out where and what community. Once accepted then worry about what to do with property…
   Blessings of Peace and All Good!

All excellent advice, partic the one about finding a financial counselor–I’m not sure where one does this. Maybe banks or federal,state, or local institutions have them, espec now during the downturn.

Once you start focusing on a few, very few, say, 1-3 communities, it is worthwhile to find out what you will need there and what that community might do re debt. Some let you ‘work it off’ in the community. In some you’ll need health insurance for only part of the time, but once you’re in the novitiate,m you are covered. In some, you won’t need a car after you enter–I suspect this is true of any non-diocesan community. Once you find out what you’ll need, and youu are accepted, you can reassure parents partic re health insurance.

 

[lediana]

The best that go together.

credit auto

 

[anode]

I’m bumping this bec I have read two posts recently about posters with vocations and huge amounts of college debt. one 6 figures, and one about 50k.

If you are in high school or 1st or 2nd year of college and think that there is a reasonable chance you might have a vocation and want to enter a religious order in particular or go to graduate school, like, say, medical school, you should try to eliminate debt as much as possible. This includes transferring to an inexpensive school, living at home, working and adopting a frugal life style. But nothing saves money like changing schools. It is very sad to read again and again, that someone really wanted to go to a private Catholic college for their faith --and ended up not being able to enter bec of all the debt they incurred. If you feel that your faith really requires a four year Catholic college of your choice, then go for it, being aware of this.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m bumping this bec I have read two posts recently about posters with vocations and huge amounts of college debt. one 6 figures, and one about 50k.

If you are in high school or 1st or 2nd year of college and think that there is a reasonable chance you might have a vocation and want to enter a religious order in particular or go to graduate school, like, say, medical school, you should try to eliminate debt as much as possible. This includes transferring to an inexpensive school, living at home, working and adopting a frugal life style. But nothing saves money like changing schools. It is very sad to read again and again, that someone really wanted to go to a private Catholic college for their faith --and ended up not being able to enter bec of all the debt they incurred. If you feel that your faith really requires a four year Catholic college of your choice, then go for it, being aware of this.

It is also important to note that there are religious orders/communities that are willing to take a person who has student debt. They require one to be debt free except for student loans.

 

[anode]

It is also important to note that there are religious orders/communities that are willing to take a person who has student debt. They require one to be debt free except for student loans.

It might be useful to list which orders these are. My suspicion is that they are mainly men’s orders.

One of those I referred to wanted to join the Nashville Dominicans but couldn’t even think about it bec of her debt.

 

[JKS]

I think you’ll develop some very important virtues while you fix your problems that you got yourself into. I’m probably not the only one who’s heard an anecdote about the girl who got others to donate money for her to pay off her debt, then didn’t have enough perseverance to last more than a few weeks in the monastery.