Vocation for repentant homosexuals

[benedict_x]

I have to say that I find some people on this thread very offensive and counter-productive to New2Catholicism’s questions and I find the lack of charity or factual proof regarding homosexuality sad.

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

“10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.”

"11. It has been argued that the homosexual orientation in certain cases is not the result of deliberate choice; and so the homosexual person would then have no choice but to behave in a homosexual fashion. Lacking freedom, such a person, even if engaged in homosexual activity, would not be culpable.

Here, the ** ** What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behavior of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God’s liberating grace."

"12. What, then, are homosexual persons to do who seek to follow the Lord? Fundamentally, they are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross. That Cross, for the believer, is a fruitful sacrifice since from that death come life and redemption. While any call to carry the cross or to understand a Christian’s suffering in this way will predictably be met with bitter ridicule by some, it should be remembered that this is the way to eternal life for all who follow Christ.

It is, in effect, none other than the teaching of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians when he says that the Spirit produces in the lives of the faithful “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control” (5:22) and further (v. 24), “You cannot belong to Christ unless you crucify all self-indulgent passions and desires.”

"16. From this multi-faceted approach there are numerous advantages to be gained, not the least of which is the realization that a homosexual person, as every human being, deeply needs to be nourished at many different levels simultaneously.

The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life."

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Firstly, welcome home to the Catholic Church New2Catholicism.
As a cradle catholic who is gay, loves his faith tremendously and once thought of joining the priesthood I would like to offer you my support and prayers for any trials that you are going through. My take on the whole “gays being priests” thing is this:

When you take on the major orders and eventually get ordained, you are to be celibate. Weather straight, bi or gay, sex or any form of impurity is a HUGE no no. You will be married to Holy Mother Church and to her you shall be faithful so a sexual orientation ceases to exist once you take up Holy Orders hence it doesn’t matter which team you bat for anymore.

I would highly suggest that the time in between making such a decision you join a religious group say Legion of Mary (represent!) and find a spiritual director which could help you. Also be sure to always make sure to tell him of your sexual orientation so he can help discern that part of your life for you. Always be honest!

There is a shortage of priests around the world right now, if you being gay (and hence called to chastity) is a cross that you’re willing to bear and are doing so with ease then I would be more than happy to pray for your vocation.

Much Hugs
Ben

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

My advice is not to join any holy order, especially a priesthood. but you can achieve many great things without joining a holy order. help those who are lost to find their way back to normality, that would be a great achievement and service to mankind and to God. I am sure you didn’t find your way back to normality by yourself, someone was helping you.

Another advice, try to keep your passed life style private, no need to say I’ve done that, been there and all that ****. For two reasons, one is for kids to hear you say that they can interpret it to be okay, and the second is for people like me who will never trust you around my kids. Just start fresh, and once you confess all your sins, you will be pure! No human is immune to temptation.

I congratulate you, and may God be with you for the rest of your journey.

I think you really need to think about changing your signature. Someone with SSA might find that very offensive.

Plus, I don’t believe that keeping his passed life secret is a good idea. Those with SSA (same-sex attraction) need to be honest about their problems. Holy Mother Church recognizes that we all are sinful in our nature. If someone with a SSA is feeling called to be a priest, he needs to seek the advice of a spiritual director. Only the VD and SD can make the determination of whether or not he is truly called. The person can at least TRY.

[SIGN]May God bless you![/SIGN]

 

[Bass]

I think you really need to think about changing your signature. Someone with SSA might find that very offensive.

Plus, I don’t believe that keeping his passed life secret is a good idea. Those with SSA (same-sex attraction) need to be honest about their problems. Holy Mother Church recognizes that we all are sinful in our nature. If someone with a SSA is feeling called to be a priest, he needs to seek the advice of a spiritual director. Only the VD and SD can make the determination of whether or not he is truly called. The person can at least TRY.

[SIGN]May God bless you![/SIGN]

first of all I will not change my signature, unless I have a better one! and I don’t care if truth offends people, that’s their problem. My obligation is to remind those who have forgotten it and correct those who wants to twist it.

what I mean by not making his past public is because it won’t do him or others any good. just move on…and the reason i don’t encourage him to conceder joining a holy order is because none of us are immune to temptation, and more so for him because he was engaged in homosexual activities. don’t you remember the resent scandal in the church? do i need to say more?

 

[benedict_x]

first of all I will not change my signature, unless I have a better one! and I don’t care if truth offends people, that’s their problem. My obligation is to remind those who have forgotten it and correct those who wants to twist it.

what I mean by not making his past public is because it won’t do him or others any good. just move on…and the reason i don’t encourage him to conceder joining a holy order is because none of us are immune to temptation, and more so for him because he was engaged in homosexual activities. don’t you remember the resent scandal in the church? do i need to say more?

And that’s generalization for you.

Immune to temptation? So if straight men become priests they would have to stay away from all women including nuns, the laity and by your second point, little girls. And if there were straight men who experimented with other men when they were younger but later realized that they were heterosexual and had relationships with women before realizing God’s call and thereby joining the priesthood it means they can’t be with men or women because of past homosexual and heterosexual activities.

As for the RECENT scandals, I would like to point out that like heterosexual men, different gay men are attracted to different kinds of men and we’re not all pedophiles. I have friends of all shapes and sizes and builds and all of them like different kinds. I personally like men who are big, muscle built and hairy. If you are living in a country which has a high rate of pedophilia (i.e USA, UK) you would know that heterosexual men can be pedophiles too.

Gross generalization like this is based on ignorance and is very shallow.

Here are some links I provided:
psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
www.joekort.com/PDF/korts_korner_pedophila.pdf

 

[Bass]

And that’s generalization for you.

Immune to temptation? So if straight men become priests they would have to stay away from all women including nuns, the laity and by your second point, little girls. And if there were straight men who experimented with other men when they were younger but later realized that they were heterosexual and had relationships with women before realizing God’s call and thereby joining the priesthood it means they can’t be with men or women because of past homosexual and heterosexual activities.

As for the RECENT scandals, I would like to point out that like heterosexual men, different gay men are attracted to different kinds of men and we’re not all pedophiles. I have friends of all shapes and sizes and builds and all of them like different kinds. I personally like men who are big, muscle built and hairy. If you are living in a country which has a high rate of pedophilia (i.e USA, UK) you would know that heterosexual men can be pedophiles too.

Gross generalization like this is based on ignorance and is very shallow.

Here are some links I provided:
psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
www.joekort.com/PDF/korts_korner_pedophila.pdf

you can mock me all you want. If not all, but majority of the scandalous purists who were convicted had molested children and yes they all had homosexual tendencies.

 

[benedict_x]

you can mock me all you want. If not all, but majority of the scandalous purists who were convicted had molested children and yes they all had homosexual tendencies.

I’m not mocking you, that would be ad hominem. I have given my sources and if you wish to refute them then please state your sources or at least give a logical train of thought and not just make unfounded judgments.

However, I am criticizing your generalization of homosexuals. It is shallow and borderlines on the intolerant which, contrary to the Catholic faith, lacks charity.

 

[Bass]

I’m not mocking you, that would be ad hominem. I have given my sources and if you wish to refute them then please state your sources or at least give a logical train of thought and not just make unfounded judgments.

However, I am criticizing your generalization of homosexuals. It is shallow and borderlines on the intolerant which, contrary to the Catholic faith, lacks charity.

all molesting persists that molested boys are homosexuals. do you not agree?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

all molesting persists that molested boys are homosexuals. do you not agree?

No. Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex.

Those who have an attraction to prepubescent children are pedophiles and those who have an attraction to adolescents are ephebophiles. Both of these can be either homosexual or heterosexual.

Just because a person may have homosexual tendencies does not mean that they are either a pedophile or a ephebophile.

 

[Bass]

No. Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex.

Those who have an attraction to prepubescent children are pedophiles and those who have an attraction to adolescents are ephebophiles. Both of these can be either homosexual or heterosexual.

Just because a person may have homosexual tendencies does not mean that they are either a pedophile or a ephebophile.

all these priests who molested boys could have easily targeted girls as well, no? but they chose boys, in my opinion that makes them both homosexuals and pedophiles.

are you equating these two behaviors? “Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex”.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

all these priests who molested boys could have easily targeted girls as well, no? but they chose boys, in my opinion that makes them both homosexuals and pedophiles.

are you equating these two behaviors? “Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex”.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You’re basically saying that the unfortunate events that occurred made the victims to blame. Please correct me if I am mistaken in misinterpreting what you said. Just because someone targets them does not mean that they, themselves, are homosexual.

We should not persuade a person from their true vocation in life just because they have had temptations and have sinned in the past. Are we not all sinners? Just because we do not have SSA does not mean we are inherently better than those with SSA. God gives us all trials to face. Those with SSA suffer no less than anyone else. God chooses who to give trials to. I’m not saying that He makes someone gay (some would argue that the jury is still out on that one), but He permits SSA so to bring someone closer to Him by giving the person a chance to live a chaste, pure lifestyle. It does not mean that anyone with SSA has a particular temptation to molest children. How did we get on this topic anyway? It’s not the issue here.

Everyone must humble himself before God to be received into His Kingdom, and only He can judge.

This is the last I will say on the matter for now.

 

[benedict_x]

all these priests who molested boys could have easily targeted girls as well, no? but they chose boys, in my opinion that makes them both homosexuals and pedophiles.

are you equating these two behaviors? “Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex”.

And we’re back on being very general again.
By your theory if all African American male musicians you see on television are rappers who deal drugs, are violent and disrespect women that would mean ALL African American men deal drugs, are violent and disrespect women.

You’re basing your views on stereotype and gross exaggeration. If you’ve got no evidence then don’t make assumptions. Unless of course you know first hand as you yourself are homosexual and a pedophile. Even then your argument wouldn’t hold weight as it’s based on a one person view (yourself) of a situation.

 

[benedict_x]

all molesting persists that molested boys are homosexuals. do you not agree?

I do not agree. Show me the evidence that all the Priests who have committed pedophilia are homosexual.

 

[Bass]

I do not agree. Show me the evidence that all the Priests who have committed pedophilia are homosexual.

are you serious? the age doesn’t matter, a male priest having sex with young male boy is a homosexual act. why is this so difficult?

 

[Thunderbird]

Looks like the thread is starting to get just a little off topic, doesn’t it? I think there are other, far better threads in which to discuss the unfortunate issue of pedophilia in the Mother Church.

Right after Easter last year, I was so fired up that I was considering becoming a Nun (imagine my protestant family’s reaction to that! ). It lasted for quite some time, until I discovered that God essentially has other plans for me… at least for the time being.

It’s absolutely thrilling that you’re considering Holy Orders, but just be sure you’re open to God wanting you to do something else. Remember that vocations come in all shapes and sizes and I think you’ll be more than fine.

Good luck, sir. This week you will be the subject of my prayers.

 

[benedict_x]

are you serious? the age doesn’t matter, a male priest having sex with young male boy is a homosexual act. why is this so difficult?

So age doesn’t matter. When a 40 year old male has heterosexual sex with a 10 year old girl and gets her pregnant it’s alright?

By the way you did not answer my theory based on your presumption that since gay priests can’t be near men (and boys) because of the temptation to sin therefore straight priests can’t be near women (and girls) because of the same temptation.

 

[benedict_x]

Looks like the thread is starting to get just a little off topic, doesn’t it? I think there are other, far better threads in which to discuss the unfortunate issue of pedophilia in the Mother Church.

I would like to agree with you Thunderbird but when people like Bass say that all homosexuals are pedophiles therefore no gay man should enter the church (despite the fact that Holy Orders call upon a priest to be celibate therefore making no difference) I take a huge offense to the lack of charity and obscene presumptions.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

all these priests who molested boys could have easily targeted girls as well, no? but they chose boys, in my opinion that makes them both homosexuals and pedophiles.

This could be so, but you appear to be saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles which is not true.

are you equating these two behaviors? “Homosexuals have an attraction to the same sex, just as heterosexuals have an attraction to the opposite sex”.

No where in this statement is any form of equation of the two behaviors. No moral statement was made, just a statement of fact as to what sex each is attracted to.

I am a Catholic and I stand by all the Church teaches. No active homosexual should enter into any form of religious life just as no active heterosexual should either. As for those men with homosexual tendencies, I have no opinion on it at the moment.

 

[Bass]

This could be so, but you appear to be saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles which is not true.

No where in this statement is any form of equation of the two behaviors. No moral statement was made, just a statement of fact as to what sex each is attracted to.

I am a Catholic and I stand by all the Church teaches. No active homosexual should enter into any form of religious life just as no active heterosexual should either. As for those men with homosexual tendencies, I have no opinion on it at the moment.

Thanks for the clarification.

as for all homosexuals are pedophiles, perhaps not now. but the reason they look for something else to satisfy their sexual urges is because the normal sex (man and a women) is not satisfying, so therefore they look for something else to make it more exciting. just like heterosexuals, vaginal sex is not kinky enough so they try anal sex, threesome, wife swapping, and so on. in MY opinion, if a person can not be satisfied from a natural sex then they will look for different things, and when homosexuals (maybe not in our lifetime) run our of ways to satisfy themselves sexually they will target something else. just like what they are doing with the issue of marriage, they can simply live with each other and do whatever they want, but no that’s not satisfying enough, so they go and try to conform the rest of us to their way of thinking. Sodom and Gomorrah started that way too, it took centuries to get the point of utter perversion, and if we don’t educate these confused ones, then the perverts (yes perverts, those who wants to push their ideology on the word) will take us there.

Let me affirm, yes sex between two people of the same sex is perverted, you can call it love, genetics, condition, whatever…it is still a perverted act.

So age doesn’t matter. When a 40 year old male has heterosexual sex with a 10 year old girl and gets her pregnant it’s alright?

By the way you did not answer my theory based on your presumption that since gay priests can’t be near men (and boys) because of the temptation to sin therefore straight priests can’t be near women (and girls) because of the same temptation.

it is so typical of you and your kind, is when you are challenged, you quickly call the challenger a hater and bigot, and you try to put words in my mouth. my comment above may answer your question.

 

[benedict_x]

Thanks for the clarification.

as for all homosexuals are pedophiles, perhaps not now. but the reason they look for something else to satisfy their sexual urges is because the normal sex (man and a women) is not satisfying, so therefore they look for something else to make it more exciting. just like heterosexuals, vaginal sex is not kinky enough so they try anal sex, threesome, wife swapping, and so on.

And you know this how? State your evidence? Are you a psychologist? have you done research on this?

in MY opinion, if a person can not be satisfied from a natural sex then they will look for different things, and when homosexuals (maybe not in our lifetime) run our of ways to satisfy themselves sexually they will target something else. just like what they are doing with the issue of marriage, they can simply live with each other and do whatever they want, but no that’s not satisfying enough, so they go and try to conform the rest of us to their way of thinking. Sodom and Gomorrah started that way too, it took centuries to get the point of utter perversion, and if we don’t educate these confused ones, then the perverts (yes perverts, those who wants to push their ideology on the word) will take us there.

Once again you are basing this on YOUR opinion. As I’ve stated before these are generalizations based on either two possibilities:

1. You yourself are homosexual and a pedophile therefore you have firsthand experience of what gays think and feel. Like I’ve said before if you are gay and a child sex offender you are basing this on your own experience and not the vast majority and therefore statements you have made do not hold any weight.
2. This is a worse option: You’re just mouthing off on something that you have no idea about and this verbal diarrhea has no evidence or study to substantiate your claim. This makes you arrogant as well as ignorant.

it is so typical of you and your kind, is when you are challenged, you quickly call the challenger a hater and bigot, and you try to put words in my mouth. my comment above may answer your question.

And what you have done is change the topic by refusing to answer the questions I’ve posed. I believed I asked if your statements in this thread meant that you:

1. condone heterosexual pedophilia.
   “are you serious? the age doesn’t matter, a male priest having sex with young male boy is a homosexual act. why is this so difficult?” - Bass
2. think that because of temptation, priests should stay away from the gender that they are attracted to - i.e gay priests can’t be near men (and boys) because of the temptation to sin therefore straight priests can’t be near women (and girls) because of the same temptation.

Also, give me evidence in this whole thread that I called you a hater and a bigot?

I know I’ve been asking you to give me evidence (or at least a logical train of thought) but till now you’re still spouting statements without any backing whatsoever.

 

[Bass]

And you know this how? State your evidence? Are you a psychologist? have you done research on this?

Once again you are basing this on YOUR opinion. As I’ve stated before these are generalizations based on either two possibilities:

1. You yourself are homosexual and a pedophile therefore you have firsthand experience of what gays think and feel. Like I’ve said before if you are gay and a child sex offender you are basing this on your own experience and not the vast majority and therefore statements you have made do not hold any weight.
2. This is a worse option: You’re just mouthing off on something that you have no idea about and this verbal diarrhea has no evidence or study to substantiate your claim. This makes you arrogant as well as ignorant.

And what you have done is change the topic by refusing to answer the questions I’ve posed. I believed I asked if your statements in this thread meant that you:

1. condone heterosexual pedophilia.
   “are you serious? the age doesn’t matter, a male priest having sex with young male boy is a homosexual act. why is this so difficult?” - Bass
2. think that because of temptation, priests should stay away from the gender that they are attracted to - i.e gay priests can’t be near men (and boys) because of the temptation to sin therefore straight priests can’t be near women (and girls) because of the same temptation.

Also, give me evidence in this whole thread that I called you a hater and a bigot?

I know I’ve been asking you to give me evidence (or at least a logical train of thought) but till now you’re still spouting statements without any backing whatsoever.

i believe i have answered you already, but what you are trying to do is meek me trip so you can prove me wrong and prove you are right. your questions and arguments at this point are meaningless. the fact still remains that homosexuality is sinful, wrong, sick and destructive. if you were really roman catholic you would know all this.

Catechism,
Chastity and homosexuality,
2357 which all homos and pro homos here never mentions
2358 which homos and pro homos keep throwing at me, and yet they still don’t get it
2359 which they avoid as well
2396 which you avoid as well
2398
and finally 2400

now, go get educated…