Vocations from Converts vs Longtime Catholic Families

[JRKH]

I read recently that those orders of religious (especially women’s religious) that retain distinctive habits are having greater success in recruiting novices than those orders who dropped the habit. This apparent desire among the young for the “traditional” got me to wondering about the types of families these young people come from.

I was wondering if there has been anything published on where the majority of new vocations are coming from in the US.
Whether there are more vocations coming from Converts or Children of Converts to the faith than from “traditionally” catholic families (multigenerational catholic)

Peace
James

 

[Cloisters]

I read recently that those orders of religious (especially women’s religious) that retain distinctive habits are having greater success in recruiting novices than those orders who dropped the habit. This apparent desire among the young for the “traditional” got me to wondering about the types of families these young people come from.

I was wondering if there has been anything published on where the majority of new vocations are coming from in the US.
Whether there are more vocations coming from Converts or Children of Converts to the faith than from “traditionally” catholic families (multigenerational catholic)

Peace
James

It’s all over the place. A large number of “traddie” vocations are coming from homeschooled families, though.

There’s also a boatload of older vocations who remember life with habited nuns, and are trying to find a traditional niche now for themselves.

Not a lot of help, but perhaps CARA or the Institute on Religious Life could help.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

One thing to remember though is do they last?

While yes some groups have large numbers entering, how many actually are still there after the postulancy and novitiate? For many of those orders/communities that is three years later.

Then there is, at a minimum, three years of temporary vows, how many make it though that?

Then how many are still there after five years of permanent vows?

That is the true test.

For the secular priesthood that would be how many finish the seminary and how many make it to five years after their ordination.

The Legion of Christ, for example lists thousands as seminarians but they ordain a little over a hundred a year. They do not tell us how many last five years.

 

[anode]

Hear, hear, Byz!

it’s how many last to final profession, and perhaps, 5 or 10 years down the road. There may not be drop-out among professed nuns, but I wonder about priests. I don’t know if there is data about this.

VISION’s recent polls of those self-identified as seriously interested in religious life indicate that most want structure–(for the women, a habit), community life, regular devotions. But I don’t know how many of these enter and persevere. Another poll by two organizations, LCWR and CMSM on preferences is due out soon.

It’s true that women’s habited orders, famously the Nashville Dominicans, attract a lot of postulants, 22 in this year’s class!!–usually young, just out of high school. But the attrition rate is also high, 6 out of last year’s 18 receiving the habit. I think that this reflects poor selection. I am also puzzled how home-schooled young women can make effective teachers.

From an anecdotal standpoint, there are a lot of potential vocations on the forums who are converts, or at least this group is posting, maybe for support as they don’t have it at home. I doubt that there are reliable stats on this. CARA publishes stats every year on total numbers, but seems to be more interested in parish life and ethnic issues–issues that involve more people. I don’t know if IRL does any ‘sociology’.

Older women interested in traditional habits should search closely in VISION and on the IRL vocation website, and order by order, in religiousministries.com. I see a lot of small orders in habits that look as if they could use candidates.

 

[JRKH]

One thing to remember though is do they last?

While yes some groups have large numbers entering, how many actually are still there after the postulancy and novitiate? For many of those orders/communities that is three years later.

Then there is, at a minimum, three years of temporary vows, how many make it though that?

Then how many are still there after five years of permanent vows?

That is the true test.

For the secular priesthood that would be how many finish the seminary and how many make it to five years after their ordination.

The Legion of Christ, for example lists thousands as seminarians but they ordain a little over a hundred a year. They do not tell us how many last five years.

This would be another question thugh not directly related to the OP.
I’m sure many interesting studies could be done on this both from the viewpoint of the different orders, - their charisms and “lifestyle” - to the historical angle - How many dropped out last decade vs 100 years ago for instance.
Vocations are indeed a complex issue and not something to be entered into lightly.

My reason for asking I think has to do more with the “intensity” of faith that some families have. Presumably this may be more prevalent in convert families. “per capita” than in life long or “historically” catholic families. After all, we all know many catholics who are not as fervent or as devout as they could be, and this most likely willl be reflected in their children. Converts on the other hand, having made the consious decision to become catholic and embrace the Church’s teachings, are more likely to be fervent and devout and this too should be reflected in their Children.

• Or perhaps not -
  
  Peace
  James

 

[Cloisters]

Hear, hear, Byz!

it’s how many last to final profession, and perhaps, 5 or 10 years down the road. There may not be drop-out among professed nuns, but I wonder about priests. I don’t know if there is data about this.

VISION’s recent polls of those self-identified as seriously interested in religious life indicate that most want structure–(for the women, a habit), community life, regular devotions. But I don’t know how many of these enter and persevere. Another poll by two organizations, LCWR and CMSM on preferences is due out soon.

It’s true that women’s habited orders, famously the Nashville Dominicans, attract a lot of postulants, 22 in this year’s class!!–usually young, just out of high school. But the attrition rate is also high, 6 out of last year’s 18 receiving the habit. I think that this reflects poor selection. I am also puzzled how home-schooled young women can make effective teachers.

From an anecdotal standpoint, there are a lot of potential vocations on the forums who are converts, or at least this group is posting, maybe for support as they don’t have it at home. I doubt that there are reliable stats on this. CARA publishes stats every year on total numbers, but seems to be more interested in parish life and ethnic issues–issues that involve more people. I don’t know if IRL does any ‘sociology’.

Older women interested in traditional habits should search closely in VISION and on the IRL vocation website, and order by order, in religiousministries.com. I see a lot of small orders in habits that look as if they could use candidates.

I never say ‘congrats’ until someone makes final profession. Even then, some still leave after making final vows. I know of a number of women who have done that for one reason or another.

I take issue with the homeschooling question, though. I homeschooled for four years, two of which I had both boys, and they teach each other. Also, the structured co-op we attended, Classical Conversations, includes presentations.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[anode]

I never say ‘congrats’ until someone makes final profession. Even then, some still leave after making final vows. I know of a number of women who have done that for one reason or another.

I take issue with the homeschooling question, though. I homeschooled for four years, two of which I had both boys, and they teach each other. Also, the structured co-op we attended, Classical Conversations, includes presentations.

Blessings,
Cloisters

I am not alleging anything, only questioning. I don’t know how many of Nashville’s postulants are homeschooled, or when they are homeschooled, through high school?

I have read somewhere that homeschoolers seem younger, less mature. I have no idea. And is there a difference between boys’ and girls’ reaction to homeschooling?

Again, I don’t know.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I never say ‘congrats’ until someone makes final profession. Even then, some still leave after making final vows. I know of a number of women who have done that for one reason or another.

I think it is okay to offer “congrats” at every step along the vocational discernment/formation path, especially if the person decides on their own to leave.

Another thing I have noticed is the “vocational shopping” (can not think of a better term for it). That is those who get turned down by one group and look for another. Even if they are honest in the application process orders/communities/dioceses are careful when talking to vocations people from other orders/communities/dioceses because of possible legal issues.

I have had experience in formation with men who have been in multiple orders and ended up with us… Not good experiences either.

 

[Cloisters]

I am not alleging anything, only questioning. I don’t know how many of Nashville’s postulants are homeschooled, or when they are homeschooled, through high school?

I have read somewhere that homeschoolers seem younger, less mature. I have no idea. And is there a difference between boys’ and girls’ reaction to homeschooling?

Again, I don’t know.

Just from dealing with homeschooled discerners, they are more settled and more focused both mentally and spiritually, and would be real jewels to whichever community God is calling them to. I wouldn’t mind having a convent full of them if they were true vocations.

About the only thing I can say is that the boys are more manly, the girls are more lady-like, yet independent, and both sets are all-around good citizens.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[Cloisters]

I think it is okay to offer “congrats” at every step along the vocational discernment/formation path, especially if the person decides on their own to leave.

Another thing I have noticed is the “vocational shopping” (can not think of a better term for it). That is those who get turned down by one group and look for another. Even if they are honest in the application process orders/communities/dioceses are careful when talking to vocations people from other orders/communities/dioceses because of possible legal issues.

I have had experience in formation with men who have been in multiple orders and ended up with us… Not good experiences either.

I get a lot of older “vocational shoppers,” too, which is one reason why I started the delayed vocations yahoo group. The biggest complaint I get from the orders is that the older women in particular are still spiritual teenagers, so we focus on getting spiritual directors and becoming spiritually mature.

Religious life is for the spiritually mature, and that is likely the reason why St Cecilia has such a turnover rate for their novitiate. Many of them often discern that they definitely don’t have a calling to that vocation, and it’s rough to leave, but they do.

We are finding that something akin to aspirancy schools is needed, and are mulling bringing back the Beguine experience partially for such a purpose. One discerner is helping with the idea. I think the Beguines/Beghards would be a good solution to so many “floating around.” I truly believe that in a Beguine setting, discerners could get a taste for religious life, and that Beguines themselves are a vocation.

We have developed “Discerner Practice” for the three forms of religious life–the Reparatrices of Charity of the Miraculous Medal; Dr. Gianna’s Assistants for Life; and the Lay Cloisterites. If anyone is interested, they can PM me for the information.

A discerner with whom I am working who has felt the attraction to founding the Sisters of the Holy Innocents & St. Gianna Molla said she thinks the OPs need some kind of vocational discerner associates, since the Third Order is off-limits to them. This is one reason why we developed “Discerner Practice.”

Anywho, that’s my two cents.

Blessings,
Cloisters