Vocations & Girl-Altar Boys

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Germany has a long tradition of female altar servers… and recently more seminarians 👍

So the matter can’t be connected too close. We have about 50-50 female/male servers, but they do not attend the same groups but serve together, and we try to make our plans accordingly so that the grups serve together, so that we might have masses with more female servers and others with more males, so it avoids boys skipping out of serving because they are part of a girl’s thing. At mass, there are many women anyway, so if they would regard it as a women’s celebration just because there are female servers/lectors/singers, they’d have a serious problem 😉
 
About five. Two of them that I used to attend back in the 80s are now closed. If you are in seminary then I will pray for you – you will soon be running 2 or 3 parishes simultaneously.

Then you have had some exceptional experiences, because the statistics don’t bear you out:

vocation.com/content-ahrk.htm

Also, you may want to read this book. As a priest, you may find yourself the only male on the parish staff besides possibly the janitor.

amazon.com/Church-Impotent-Feminization-Christianity/dp/1890626198/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5389719-7466844?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182899944&sr=1-1
While I see the merit in getting out the real information about vocation statistics, I have to wonder if a more positive approach might achieve more. In business, you learn never to tell anyone that things are slow. Whenever someone asks how things are, you reply “business is great, I’m so busy I can’t stand it!”. Why? Because no one wants to do business with a company that’s already having problems.

Armed forces recruiting does the same thing…they never come out and say they’re desperate for recruits. They say “ARMY, Be all you can be!” and make it sound like everyone wants to join up and there’s a line around the block.

I’m not saying we should lie…just that when potential vocations hear that they’re in for 3 parishes and 20-hour days working for a church that can’t get anyone to work for it, they may think twice. I would! Put the best foot forward, present the plusses of priesthood and service. There are dioceses with full seminaries…hopefully other dioceses are looking at their programs and implementing their best practices.
 
If a boy actually leaves the altar because he’s afraid of getting “cooties” from standing next to a girl, he’s the one that has a problem. Whether some boy might be “afraid” of standing near a girl, or might be “distracted” by her, why is the solution always to kick the girls out when they’ve done absolutely nothing wrong :confused:

Are our expectations for young men so low that we can’t teach them that cooties aren’t real, and we can’t teach them to pay attention in Mass?

And we should kick the girls out because “they might do a better job than the boys, and the boys will feel bad”? Maybe we should help the boys improve, instead of punishing girls that do the job well.
 
Personally, no, i don’t think they should be. However, the Church says that they can, and i can’t argue with that. Allowing girls to be altar servers (in my opinion) is planting the seeds for girls wanting to be priests. In some of my CCD classes, the girls used that very argument (that if they can be altar servers, they should be allowed to be priests). It is also my belief that the vocations crisis was not caused or is being continued because of female altar servers. That problem comes from teaching the faith poorly and unholy families. If every family went to mass and confession weekly, vocations would be overfilling.
I think I agree with you-- female altar servers are not responsible for a vocational shortage. Although, I do think properly catechized girls can make fine altar servers.
 
Even though the Church allows for girl and boys servers, she encourages boys to server.

From what I witness, I see the altar girls increasing in numbers and altar boys decreasing. If you want boys to stop doing something, make it a girl-thing. Just as when the boys get older…if you men to stop doing something, make it a gay-thing.

I do not mean for this to be a generalization, but it is my experience. I see the altar girl being ostentatious where the altar boy is scared out of his wits not wanting to do anything wrong. The girl covets the attention while the boy is hoping no one is watching him(I know this for I was an altar boy). The effect from where I sit is that the altar girl is full of pride being able to serve up on the altar while to altar boy looks like a humble servant.

However, IMHO, the best influence on a boy seeing the beauty of the priesthood is a good priest.
 
I guess what I’m trying to say is…why is the solution to simply kick the girls out, instead of teaching all the altar boys and girls to serve with humility and confidence?
 
IMO, I have seen both reverent boy and girl servers at the altar. I believe that boys should be more actively ‘recruited’ for serving, but girls should be allowed to serve at the altar as well.
 
About five. Two of them that I used to attend back in the 80s are now closed. If you are in seminary then I will pray for you – you will soon be running 2 or 3 parishes simultaneously.

Then you have had some exceptional experiences, because the statistics don’t bear you out:

Also, you may want to read this book. As a priest, you may find yourself the only male on the parish staff besides possibly the janitor.
I hope your statistics are not from the 80’s too. I know that it is true that some seminaries that were open 20 some years ago are not doing too well or have since closed, however, I think it is an unfair estimation to say that because of their closing the Church must be hurting. I also know that right now some dioceses are not doing too hot either when it comes to vocations. Unfortunately I think we need to ask the question of whether this means God is not calling men from these dioceses or is it something that is not being done in the way of response of these dioceses’ Bishops; just a thought.

I have had some exceptional experiences. I have been blessed to have been formed in two great seminaries. Every year I am in awe of how many new guys come into the seminary and how many of them stay and become priests. We have over 30 new men that came in this year and my graduating class is over 30. But then again my seminary could be an exception to the statistics.

I also know that there are some dioceses that have priests running between 2 to 3 parishes because their numbers are low. At the present time I know that my diocese is in good shape. Also, I figure that most of my staff is going to be women. I would assume that their husbands have better paying jobs and that they are out there working to provide for their family.

Either way, despite low numbers or having a mostly female staff (none of which would bother me) or anything else, I will just be happy to be a priest and to be able to exercise that ministry. I am not at the point of letting some statistics get me down.

I would really appreciate the extra prayers – thanks.
 
This argument seems so ridiculous to me. If there are so many boys that have SUCH a problem with girls, then perhaps we should go back to sex-segregated schools.

In my parish, there are tons of altar servers, boys and girls. They all do a good job. Any mistakes are usually related to newness, not gender. The boys and the girls work fine together. In my kids school, same thing. The boys and the girls run all ability levels, and yet work fine together. They don’t have this whole “I can’t work with the other sex” thing going on. I think we, as adults, sometimes project that stuff onto them. Perhaps I am just lucky, or we live in some kind of specially blessed area, I don’t know.

Frankly, we see the issue as one of service. What can our family do to help our parish run better? We have already had the kids involved in hospitality ministry, serving donuts and cofee after Masses, cleaning up and doing set-up work. They really enjoy it and love feeling useful. Now that my oldest is old enough and has made the required sacraments in order to be an altar server, she is eager to do it. She wants to serve her community in that way. It has nothing to do with future vocations, whether she might be a nun or a married mother, her brothers priests, brothers, or married fathers. It’s being of use to her community right now in a meaningful way. Why does it have to be more than that? Just because some people used to view it that way?

I think making a huge issue out of this, and especially taking a “let’s throw the girls out” stance can only hurt the Church in the end. Do you want to turn off the next generation of mothers to the Church? Do you want to reinforce the secular idea that the Catholic Church is sexist, and arbitrarily so, in their minds? Do you want them to feel that Church itself does not value their service or talents? My daughter is a very dedicated little Catholic, better than her parents much of the time. I wouldn’t destroy that for anything, and I think people who would because they see some link between her service and the lack of vocations are extremely short sighted.

The Vatican says it’s OK. Our (very traditional) bishop has approved it. I thought that was supposed to be good enough for a Catholic. And has already been mentioned, in times of shortage and crisis, it is often the women who step up and keep parishes running. Do you want them to stop doing that, just because they are women? Is it the women’s fault that the men of the parish don’t come forward to be administrators, catechesis directors, liturgists, etc? Perhaps women who were altar servers as children will have a stronger attachment to their parish and want to help it keep running, instead of sitting back and saying she can’t do anything because she is a woman, and letting the men around her allow the parish to stop operating because they don’t come forward to do the jobs. This is not a slam on men, but it’s true that for some reason, women are the ones who mostly are stepping in to help the overwhelmed priests manage parishes.
 
I hope your statistics are not from the 80’s too.
Please read the statistics before arguing them. You will see that the statistics are summarized in five year increments from 1965-2005, and the numbers are sobering.
I have had some exceptional experiences. I have been blessed to have been formed in two great seminaries. Every year I am in awe of how many new guys come into the seminary and how many of them stay and become priests. We have over 30 new men that came in this year and my graduating class is over 30. But then again my seminary could be an exception to the statistics.
Unfortunately, yes it is an exception. Thirty men, not matter how good they are, can’t make up for the shortfall of the tens of thousands. Intelligent decisions can’t be based on personal anecdotes.
I also know that there are some dioceses that have priests running between 2 to 3 parishes because their numbers are low. At the present time I know that my diocese is in good shape.
Any diocese that has a priest running 2-3 parishes has a problem. Some are worse than others.
I would really appreciate the extra prayers – thanks.
You’ve got them. God bless you!
 
In July 2001, the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship issued a response to a bishop’s question (dubium) concerning the possible admission of girls and women as altar servers. The response, a further explanation of the Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2, that granted permission for bishops to admit female altar servers, made it clear that only a diocesan bishop may decide whether to permit female servers in his diocese; furthermore, that no priest is obliged to have female servers, even in dioceses where this is permitted. The letter stressed that no one has a “right” to serve at the altar, and also strongly reaffirmed that altar boys should be encouraged.

The citation below is from the Vatican document:
adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid.)
 
Please read the statistics before arguing them. You will see that the statistics are summarized in five year increments from 1965-2005, and the numbers are sobering.
I am curious where I can get my hands on these statistics. If you could put a link up or something that would be cool.
 
Just thought some might like to know that watching his big sister prepare to be an altar server has inspired an eagerness in her brother to become one when he is old enough and has made his First Communion and Confirmation. (Our bishop has reinstated the original order of the sacraments and moved the age down, so he will do both in his third grade year.)

Perhaps the girls aren’t damaging the boys’ role quite as much as some think? 👍
 
I honestly do not feel that this is a significant factor in the decline to vocations (for either sex.)

I haven’t done the research, or even read all the posts yet, but from my experience growing up in a “lost” generation when it comes to the faith, I believe the faults are the following (though this is a very complex, long evolving process that is not limited to the following):

-Extreme secularization of the media (TV, Movies, music, magazines, etc), public schools and colleges (i.e. cramming the separation of Church and State so far down everyone’s throat that kids are afraid to even mention God anywhere but church) and other forms of “authority” or entities that are perceived as “authorities,”
-Lack of transmission of the faith by parents, very likely due to the reason above.
-while not intending this to sound racist or prejudice: the mass integration of society which sort of results in people questioning their beliefs due to contact with other belief systems. (Of course one can argue that a faith this easily dismantled was not very strong to begin with but it is also sort of a divided we fall situation.)
-the rise of popularity and glamorization/romanticization of counter cultures that promote secular and/or non-Christian or even anti-Christian values. (Yes, I blame the hippies for some of this….)

I think there are other issues of course.

I wasn’t alive back before things are generally believed to have taken a downturn (i.e. before the 60’s) so it is hard for me to completely get a grasp as to whether this is “selective memory” by society as a whole (i.e. romanticizing the past as we do with childhood) or what. However, I do think there is a general downturn in all values and morals in the last couple decades (since I have been old enough to observe it) and I realistically think it is going to get much worse before it gets better. Sorry.

However, the solution lies with us. We need to be more vocal and proactive, especially with our kids if we have them. Be charitable examples of disciple-ship.

“Be not afraid.”
 
-while not intending this to sound racist or prejudice: the mass integration of society which sort of results in people questioning their beliefs due to contact with other belief systems. (Of course one can argue that a faith this easily dismantled was not very strong to begin with but it is also sort of a divided we fall situation.)

“Be not afraid.”
I wanted to append my statement here before I get accused of something ugly: what I mean here is the watering down of communities and people being more or less forced to accept ideas that are contrary or at least questionable to a believing group – like extreme PC-ism where one is instantly labeled a homophobe because one does not support gay marriage.

I meant the integration of ideas or belief systems strictly – not racial integration. Or the dismantling of coherent, tight knit communities by accusations of exclusionism.
 
**The traditional place of altar boys is a source of vocations, & the tendency of some younger boys to not want to share activities with girls.

So, The Big Question is Not whether girls can do just as good as the boys,
The Important Question is:

Does Having Girl Altar Boys Help with Vocations To The Priesthood, or Hurt it?****
Great Question. I live in the only diocese in the United States that doesn’t allow altar girls (Lincoln Diocese, Nebraska). We also lead the nation in seminarians per capita. We presently have 52 young men in the seminary, 19 who entered this year alone. While seminarys are closing around the nation, we just built a new one in Seward, Nebraska.
How do altar girls lower vocations? It’s very simple, a girl will never be a priest. So when a girl is serving mass she is taking away a spot from a young boy/man to serve. The close interaction with priest serving mass is when many boys hear their calling to the priesthood. Also boys tend to not want to do what girls do. So if you have all girls serving mass the boys will say, “hey I’m not doing that it’s a girls job.”
I have attended mass thoughout the country and often times there are all women on the altar except the priest. Do you think a young man or boy is going to look at that situation and say, “thats what I want to do.”
When the Vatican allowed for altar girls in the early 90’s this was only to be the case if there was a need, in other words if there were no boys around. It was never ment to be a replacement for boys, or something that was to be shared with boys. The next time you watch EWTN and the Pope is saying mass, look and see if there are any girls serving. I will bet you $100.00 you won’t find one.
It isn’t that women are second class citizens in the eyes of the Church. It’s all about vocations.👍
 
So when a girl is serving mass she is taking away a spot from a young boy/man to serve.
THIS IS B.S.! I am willing to bet my house that no parish in this country has EVER turned away a boy who wanted to be an altar server in favor of a girl. Many parishes struggle with getting enough volunteers for all ministries. They will train anyone who expresses an interest and meets the qualifications. If a boy never expresses a desire to be an altar server, that is not the fault of the girl who does.
 
**Ditto! Jared123! :tiphat:

Same is true for Extra-Ordinary Ministers,
They have become so Ordinary it’s not even funny!**
 
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