Vocations & Girl-Altar Boys

[Sixtus]

**The traditional place of altar boys is a source of vocations, & the tendency of some younger boys to not want to share activities with girls.

So, The Big Question is Not whether girls can do just as good as the boys,
The Important Question is:

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Does Having Girl Altar Boys Help with Vocations To The Priesthood, or Hurt it?****

A Church where I worship, the priest was for a number of years against girl altar servers as it was felt that the OP’s arguement held true. I was eventually priviledged to invite girls to serve.

My experience is that ‘taught to serve and taught to serve well’ bonding servers together, making them feel valued and part of a very special core of people, boys tend to take their serving duties very seriously and are not put off by the presence of girls. On the contrary, are happy to share duties and see their gender opposites do well.

Girl altar servers who are properly trained and serve well, help raise the dignity of the Mass and keep focus of the congregation on the Lords Table. This in turn has the knock on effect of helping the congregation to raise their minds and hearts to God. It is my belief that in this context, folk begin to think more deeply about the Mass and their role within it, ministeries including vocations to the religious life.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Once a diocese does there is no going back. **Arlington, Virginia **was the only other diocese to not allow girl altar servers, but as of recently caved in on the issue and now allows this. I hope they realize there will be no going back on this issue.

Not all parishes in the diocese do allow girl servers. In fact I believe it is still the minority of parishes that have them.

 

[Jared123]

A
Girl altar servers who are properly trained and serve well, help raise the dignity of the Mass and keep focus of the congregation on the Lords Table.

How do altar girls raise the dignity of Mass? If this is the case why did the Church wait almost 2,000 years to allow this?
If what you think is the truth than vocations to the priesthood, and religious life should be increasing since now we have altar girls. The objective truth is that vocations are down worldwide. If your argument held water there should be more women joining the convent since now they are serving on the altar? This definantly isn’t the case, ironically here in Lincoln where we don’t allow altar girls our convents are doing quite well. Go back to post #44 and read the summary of the article in post #43.
It all has to do with keeping a diocese orthodox, and altar girls are one aspect of this.

 

[Jared123]

Not all parishes in the diocese do allow girl servers. In fact I believe it is still the minority of parishes that have them.

Unfortuanantly it will only be a matter of time before each pastor will be pressured to have girls on the altar and he won’t have the backing of his Bishop. I was very sad to see the Bishop cave on this issue.

 

[Jared123]

An interesting fact about the Arlington Diocese is that in the past it has had a high number of Vocations to the Priesthood. If you look at the numbers it was consistantly up there with Lincoln in vocations. These were the last two dioceses in the nation to not allowed altar girls. Arlington has sinced caved in and now allows this practice. It will be interesting to see what happens to the number of vocations in that diocese. Lincoln now is the only diocese left that doesn’t allow altar girls and currently has 52 young men in the seminary. The diocessen website needs to update for I think it only states that there are 38 seminarians.

 

[Sr_Sally]

An interesting fact about the Arlington Diocese is that in the past it has had a high number of Vocations to the Priesthood. If you look at the numbers it was consistantly up there with Lincoln in vocations. These were the last two dioceses in the nation to not allowed altar girls. Arlington has sinced caved in and now allows this practice. It will be interesting to see what happens to the number of vocations in that diocese. Lincoln now is the only diocese left that doesn’t allow altar girls and currently has 52 young men in the seminary. The diocessen website needs to update for I think it only states that there are 38 seminarians.

Yes, this will be something to watch.

 

[chicago]

Look at it this way, what did the Church do before 1992? Every mass was served by boys. This didn’t matter if it was in a large Archdiocese with millions of Catholics or in a small diocese with thousands of Catholics.

That’s not true. The reality was that in many places girls were ALREADY serving (thus the reason the Vatican had to respond). In some parishes and dioceses where they weren’t, the notitiae that it was permissible did lead to girls joining boys, but more often the case was simply that it had already happenned and was just being confirmed as legitimate by Rome.

Remember altar girls is a tradition within the Church that can change. At anytime Rome can say, we now will not allow altar girls.

Of course, that is also true of altar boys.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

what did the Church do before 1992? Every mass was served by boys

Somedays it seems like 1992 was millions of years ago. I don’t remember seeing many people with tatoos much before 1992. I see 60 year old women with tatoos now. Things have changed tremendously, especially in the big cities. That was my point about my diocese being huge. Our Archbishop, actually let me correct myself, Cardinal, is really doing a wonderful job here and I have to trust his judgement and not think a man of his intelligence and faithfullness is being bullied or afraid to take any action that he thinks would have a positive influence on our Church.

 

[chicago]

If what you think is the truth than vocations to the priesthood, and religious life should be increasing since now we have altar girls. The objective truth is that vocations are down worldwide. If your argument held water there should be more women joining the convent since now they are serving on the altar? This definantly isn’t the case, ironically here in Lincoln where we don’t allow altar girls our convents are doing quite well. Go back to post #44 and read the summary of the article in post #43.
It all has to do with keeping a diocese orthodox, and altar girls are one aspect of this.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees. What you noted in my emphasized phrase actually has more to do with things than anything. While there are legitimate and worthy arguments both for retaining boys only as altar servers or having both boys and girls, there is much more at play in attracting vocations than oversimplifiying matters to this. There is a need for development of spirituality, strong faith filled families, positive exposure to and interaction with priests and religious, and the fostering/recruitment of vocations for these ways of life to thrive. Absent these essential factors, it really doesn’t matter who is serving at the altar. You won’t have vocations.

 

[chicago]

…and not think a man of his intelligence and faithfullness is being bullied or afraid to take any action that he thinks would have a positive influence on our Church.

I think it naive to believe that most bishops (and especially ones in large archdioceses which there is always an ecclesiastical politic to play) don’t regularly get bullied in one form or another these days.

 

[Pius_X]

Pius X,
If you get a chance go back and post #43, the article about the Lincoln Diocese. Or you can go back and read post #44 were the article was summerized.
As I stated earlier the proof is in the pudding. If the Lincoln Diocese was doing such a disservice to women why do we have some young women entering religious orders in this diocese, and young men joining the priesthood.
I also don’t understand what you mean by how it inspires a better sense of what the liturgy is, by using altar girls? And if this was the case why did the Church just now allow altar girls in the early 90’s? Don’t you think the Church would of wanted to inspires us as much as possible before the 1990’s?

I see young men joining the priesthood in more places than Lincoln. In the early church, deaconesses helped with baptism of women, so there is a place for a feminine liturgical role.

The altar server only takes the place of a cleric. If the church wanted to encourage vocations of young men by having them serve, then why do they only take the place of those already clerics? Don’t you think the church would want to inspire these vocations all the time?

 

[Pius_X]

Unfortuanatly Pius X you have been misinformed about the Vaticans view on altar girls. The Vatican never expected there to be altar girls used at every mass while young men sat in the pews and watched. But this is the reality of what has happened throughout the country and world. Girls were ONLY to be used if there were no boys to serve. Unfortunantly many diocese took this as we can have girls serve all time, it’s no big deal. Also many Bishops didn’t have the guts to stand up and say “no we are not allowing altar girls”, even though this decision is left up to the Bishop. The end result in many places has been a whole bunch of altar girls and very few boys who will now serve.
Something else that hasn’t really been spoken about is how there is a direct correlation between this and the movement in the U.S. of Catholics who want women ordination. We now have all these girls who serve mass, pass out communion, so why can’t they be a priest? This is what many Catholics now think and believe, even though any informed Catholic knows that a women can’t ever bee ordained a priest. If you keep a Diocese orthodox it will flourish…

The Vatican approved them, get over it. Rome has spoken, the matter is closed. I believe that is a term commonly used by self-proclaimed traditionalists. Do you have stats for these “many places?” If the boy does not volunteer, that is his fault, not the girl’s fault. I, as a teenage altar server, have no problem serving with girls, even though I am a guy. I had no problem volunteering, neither did other guys.

 

[Pius_X]

It strikes you odd that if a girl will do a job, the boys will gladly let her??? Check out any job at your local parish, be it altar servers, EMHC’s, readers, choir etc and see how many are women and how many are men. This isn’t a slight on women at all, but rather shows how men can be very lazy.

I have said before, as a guy, I have no problem serving with a girl. Why would you want lazy men to do a job in a lazy way, when a girl who is not lazy would do it and give everything to doing the task?

 

[Pius_X]

I will state this again, why is there such a need for altar girls througout the country but not in the Linclon Diocese? -Snip- Eventually girls would be on the altar while the boys sat in the pews and watched. Eventually this would be another reason why young men would not want to be a priest, hence we have a very large vocation shortage throughout the country.

The rest of the country, apparently, is not the Diocese of Lincoln.

At my parish, girls are not the only servers, and guys do not sit in the pews. I am in high school, and am seriously considering the priesthood. Serving with girls does not lessen this in anyway.

 

[verdigirl]

I don’t see any problems with girls serving, and I don’t think they have any detriment whatsoever to male vocations.

Additionally, I think it could teach boys some gender sensitivity. If they do actually go on to be priests, they will be accustomed to working with females from waaaaaay back. This could go a long way to curbing sexism.

 

[Jared123]

That’s not true. The reality was that in many places girls were ALREADY serving (thus the reason the Vatican had to respond). In some parishes and dioceses where they weren’t, the notitiae that it was permissible did lead to girls joining boys, but more often the case was simply that it had already happenned and was just being confirmed as legitimate by Rome.

Of course, that is also true of altar boys.

You are very much correct, some places were using altar girls before this was o.k.'d by the Vatican…I guess this shows how faithful those dioceses were to the Magesterium. Since when have Catholics been allowed to tinker with the mass and add certain elements without the approval of Vatican…never.

 

[Jared123]

Somedays it seems like 1992 was millions of years ago. I don’t remember seeing many people with tatoos much before 1992. I see 60 year old women with tatoos now. Things have changed tremendously, especially in the big cities. That was my point about my diocese being huge. Our Archbishop, actually let me correct myself, Cardinal, is really doing a wonderful job here and I have to trust his judgement and not think a man of his intelligence and faithfullness is being bullied or afraid to take any action that he thinks would have a positive influence on our Church.

Of course things change with time, but it always for the best? Your Cardinal is probably wonderful and is very intelligent. He is also intelligent enough to know how much critcism he would take if he didn’t allow altar girls. Most Bishops and Archbishops are having enough trouble with elements within their diocese than to have to worry about altar girls. Issues such as scandels, call to action, Catholics leaving the faith etc.

 

[Jared123]

I think you are missing the forest for the trees. What you noted in my emphasized phrase actually has more to do with things than anything. While there are legitimate and worthy arguments both for retaining boys only as altar servers or having both boys and girls, there is much more at play in attracting vocations than oversimplifiying matters to this. There is a need for development of spirituality, strong faith filled families, positive exposure to and interaction with priests and religious, and the fostering/recruitment of vocations for these ways of life to thrive. Absent these essential factors, it really doesn’t matter who is serving at the altar. You won’t have vocations.

Like I have stated throughout this thread altar girls are not the only reason for the shortage of vocations but this is one element.

 

[Jared123]

I see young men joining the priesthood in more places than Lincoln. In the early church, deaconesses helped with baptism of women, so there is a place for a feminine liturgical role.

The altar server only takes the place of a cleric. If the church wanted to encourage vocations of young men by having them serve, then why do they only take the place of those already clerics? Don’t you think the church would want to inspire these vocations all the time?

Of course there are plenty of holy Catholic men joining the priesthood in other places than Lincoln. The question how many men and will it be enough to fill the needs of the Church now and in the future. In almost every diocese the answer is NO.
Were there really deaconesses within the Catholic in the past? I haven’t ever heard this or read about this. Please cite me a source. I am pretty sure this title doesn’t exist today.
I also don’t understand what your mean by altar servers taking the place of a cleric? Define cleric?
Pius X are you in favor of women ordination since you seem to think there is a feminine liturgical role?

 

[Jared123]

I don’t see any problems with girls serving, and I don’t think they have any detriment whatsoever to male vocations.

Additionally, I think it could teach boys some gender sensitivity. If they do actually go on to be priests, they will be accustomed to working with females from waaaaaay back. This could go a long way to curbing sexism.

Verdigirl,
Are you in favor of women ordination? In other words women being ordained as priest?