Voice therapy for trans client(s)

[Bruised_Reed]

I really don’t know if that translates to a “feed the fantasy” approach.

It’s not a fantasy. People with GID acknowledge what they look like, sound like. At this time psychotherapy, nor drug therapy (save for hormones and hormone blockers) correct GID.

We don’t treat paranoia by helping people purchase a gun.

Psychotherapy and anti-psychotics are effective treatments.

We don’t treat people who believe they are George Washington by putting them on the ballot for the presidential race. I am unclear as

Ugh. Sorry that’s cut off, my phone and this site are often at odds…anyway. Again, psychotherapy and medication are effective. Those examples aren’t comparable.

 

[therese1998]

I would say no, it would be encouraging them to live the lie. Extreme example: if you know a person is suicidal, would you teach them the right way to cut themselves or the how to get the best drugs to off themselves?

Also, you would most likely have to address them by their preferred pronoun- would you want to do that?

True

I, personally, would decline.

In private practice, that is a consideration. Lost money. In the public sphere, it can result in loss of job, benefits, pension and, potentially, license to practice which means we have no way to pay the mortgage and a significant portion of our bills.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Also, you would most likely have to address them by their preferred pronoun- would you want to do that

I don’t address people by their pronouns but by their name. And calling people by their preferred name is polite.

These people (regardless of religious feelings) need mental help

They usually are, especially if they are transitioning or plan to.

 

[exnihilo]

Your vocation is in working with pathologies. A male sounding like a male isn’t a pathology. If anything a male sounding like a female would be the pathology. I would consider unnecessary or harmful treatments of any kind to be unethical. So in my opinion I would decline such work.

 

[LisaB]

If you have a choice, I would decline such work. If you don’t have a choice, and your job is on the line, contact https://www.ncbcenter.org/. It’s National bioethics center trained to advise on such issues. I called them recently about a work related dilemma I was having, and they responded promptly and provided excellent advice.

My opinion about your specific situation is that you’d be helping them do something highly immoral, but check with professionals.

 

[therese1998]

I would say no, it would be encouraging them to live the lie.

This has also been my feeling. Still processing…

I really don’t know if that translates to a “feed the fantasy” approach.

I don’t know. It seems very much of a working backwards “they’re such nice people, I don’t want to be mean to them”----->scientific “proof” when the issue of LGBTQ actions and a nice personality or a beloved status really are separate issues.

There is also a growing body of evidence that transgender regret (particularly after surgery) is as high as 20%, with people reporting that many trans-gendered individuals feel ashamed or even threatened to stay quiet about it.

That’s a less-than-majority but still quite significant number. This is speculation, but it reminds me of the “tip of the iceberg” type issue we’ve seen when all but the bravest of victims was willing to come forward against teachers, bosses, priests, judges, etc.

Those examples aren’t comparable.

Well, unless they are and it’s a political and not medical/scientific reason that we encourage the dysphoria of gender and sexuality but not the dysphoria of anxiety, suicidal ideation, body image, psychiatric conditions, etc. Complicated…

Your vocation is in working with pathologies…

Yes, true. I’ve thought that, as well.

If you don’t have a choice, and your job is on the line, contact https://www.ncbcenter.org/

Thank you. That’s a helpful resource.

 

[Augustinian]

To be clear, I don’t have a problem providing speech therapy in general to clients of trans-gender or homosexual orientation. It’s this particular issue that is of concern to me. It makes me uncomfortable, primarily because I see it as active (but, forced) participation in a life-style that is intrinsically disordered
It’s a tough question and I go back and forth…

How would you feel if someone is killed because of this training?

A lot of transgendered individuals try to trick men into thinking they are actually women. This training seems like it is likely to make that more feasible.

Some men get really enraged if they find out that they’ve been deceived.

Its one thing for someone to sell a man women’s clothes, but this is taking it a lot further.

 

[therese1998]

How would you feel if someone is killed because of this training?

Stop right there, please. I’m not looking for scare tactics and don’t particularly appreciate them, either.

If people can legally sell guns to adults without being liable for their crimes, then voice training is not a problem. The issue I have is whether I find voice training to be complicit with something I find morally ambiguous. Extending a professional, credentialed service to a client is no more complicit in murder than is selling them a wrench which is later used in a killing. Please do not attempt to guilt-trip me into the action you wish to condone. If you have a reasonable argument for why providing voice therapy to a trans client is morally questionable to the degree of giving up my means of making a living, then let’s hear it.

reduced to a decision tree? I

I don’t think that is the purpose of the “decision tree” at all. I think the decision tree is there to guide our decisions, or help us organize our thoughts, not make them.

 

[therese1998]

Not knowing the origin makes it challenging

Arguably, I agree; but we really don’t know the origin of many psychiatric, emotional and mental illnesses. This argument re: origin really only seems to deflect the issue. Also, trust me when I tell you that not all of the issues I have mentioned have “cures” in the way that you are suggesting. It is a life-long battle that in no way is eliminated by meds/counseling. Functional is a long way from cured: what we DO have (and thank God for it) is a life-long struggle against a scary and sometimes very intrusive condition that is eased, sometimes a lot, by maintaining positive emotional and physical health, chemical intervention and support systems that provide support and, often, accountability for related self-injurious behaviors. Not enabling.

For centuries people who are LGBT were hidden, ignored, treated like freaks instead of listening to their experiences. So now we have little understanding and LGBT persons still marginalized.

For centuries people who are LGBT were hidden, ignored, treated like freaks instead of listening to their experiences.

For centuries people who are LGBT were hidden, ignored, treated like freaks instead of listening to their experiences. So now we have little understanding and LGBT persons still marginalized

Agreed. And that was not a loving response. And one of the places that LGBTQ people sef-report feeling isolated is in the CC.

You are an example; you obviously know little about GID but are looking for a way out of treating people with it.

But we need to be very careful not to swing in the opposite direction of assuming there is no issue, either. While our compassion and love can always increase, Catholic teaching on sexuality remains the Truth.

You are an example; you obviously know little about GID but are looking for a way out of treating people with it.

You need to check your arrogance, a bit. You neither know me nor are you qualified to interpret my feelings on any issue, much less this one. As it turns out, I’d be happy to be able to treat people with LGBTQ orientation/actions. Help someone with an issue I’m credentialed in, keep my means of supporting my family AND avoid complicit sin? Sounds like a win-win to me! What is never a win-win is when someone makes presumptions about someone else based on a true interior struggle. You might want to check your own bias, there.

You potentially could be offering one of the least invasive and least permanent aspects of transitioning,

This is true.

 

[Feanor2]

A professional doesn’t base their work on catholic morality. They provide their services based on education, experience, and ethics.

It would be inappropriate to inject ones take on catholic morality ito professional practice. This goes for psychiatrists, psychologists, therapist of various kinds etc…
Indeed a professional shouldn’t be seeking advice related to practice on a catholic forum. These questions are for supervisors and the state licensing body

 

[Iterum]

You’d be teaching someone how to lie more effectively.

 

[Iterum]

It would be inappropriate to inject ones take on catholic morality ito professional practice

I completely disagree.

 

[Thorolfr]

Arguably, I agree; but we really don’t know the origin of many psychiatric, emotional and mental illnesses. This argument re: origin really only seems to deflect the issue. Also, trust me when I tell you that not all of the issues I have mentioned have “cures” in the way that you are suggesting. It is a life-long battle that in no way is eliminated by meds/counseling. Functional is a long way from cured: what we DO have (and thank God for it) is a life-long struggle against a scary and sometimes very intrusive condition that is eased, sometimes a lot, by maintaining positive emotional and physical health, chemical intervention and support systems that provide support and, often, accountability for related self-injurious behaviors. Not enabling.

If giving someone voice therapy would help relieve their mental suffering, I would think that that would be preferable to “chemical intervention.” Voice therapy doesn’t hurt someone’s body the way that “chemical intervention” does. Almost all medications have side effects of some sort. Antidepressants can cause weight gain, fatigue, insomnia, nausea, etc. Medications for ADHD can cause blood pressure and heart rate to go up. Voice therapy seems rather benign in comparison to what most psychotropic medications do to the body.

 

[therese1998]

A professional doesn’t base their work on catholic morality. They provide their services based on education, experience, and ethics.

It would be inappropriate to inject ones take on catholic morality ito professional practice. This goes for psychiatrists, psychologists, therapist of various kinds etc…
Indeed a professional shouldn’t be seeking advice related to practice on a catholic forum. These questions are for supervisors and the state licensing body

Thanks for the smackdown.

As it turns out, I live out my Catholic faith in ALL aspects of my life. Contrary to your insinuation, there is no conflict in living out morality in your chosen profession.

 

[therese1998]

The sin was committed before you showed up, or before the wedding cake is made, or before the electrician did the lights in the Episcopal church where the wedding is held, or the government clerk signed the papers. Money’s good, do it. You’re not urging them that this is good and beautiful, you’re just doing your job.

Interesting…thanks.

You’d be teaching someone how to lie more effectively.

Thank you.

If giving someone voice therapy would help relieve their mental suffering, I would think that that would be preferable to “chemical intervention…”

Hadn’t thought of that, thanks.

 

[exnihilo]

A professional doesn’t base their work on catholic morality. They provide their services based on education, experience, and ethics.

It would be inappropriate to inject ones take on catholic morality ito professional practice. This goes for psychiatrists, psychologists, therapist of various kinds etc…
Indeed a professional shouldn’t be seeking advice related to practice on a catholic forum. These questions are for supervisors and the state licensing body

What would you think morality shouldn’t be part of professional practices? I generally avoid immoral or amoral people even if they are a professional. Many professions, including doctors, actually have a morality oath.