Volunteer Firefighters VS Living Wage Principle

[Darrel]

The moral question,

I have no doubt that it is good and honorable to volunteer as a firefighter. In some cases volunteers have out performed payed firefighters. They choose to do good and risk there safety for others while saving lives, property, and providing medical help.

The issue I have is there existence within the town. I feel that towns save serious money sending young people into harms way under the umbrella of volunteers. Many towns can afford full blown paid firefighters and choose volunteers.

Many towns could raise taxes to pay for full blown paid firefighters. The principle I see violated is the idea of a living wage. If we are sending people into situations that could kill them, should they not make a living wage? The people who volunteer are usually young and eventualy get out for the most part. Some older people stay on as leaders.

What say ye?

 

[Della]

If a community can afford to pay firefighters they ought to pay them the going pay rate. That’s only right and fair.

 

[KCT]

I feel that towns save serious money sending young people into harms way under the umbrella of volunteers. quote]

The town isn’t sending them. They volunteer to go. —KCT

 

[buffalo]

Darrel;1646772:

I feel that towns save serious money sending young people into harms way under the umbrella of volunteers. quote]

The town isn’t sending them. They volunteer to go. —KCT

Yes, the keyword is volunteer. Community service is noble and a good thing. It should be encouraged. Everything is not about money.

 

[Darrel]

KCT;1646847:

Yes, the keyword is volunteer. Community service is noble and a good thing. It should be encouraged. Everything is not about money.

Fair enough,

But the next town over might be paying a guy 45,000 a year to do the same thing an 18 year old does for free. What about the towns choice to be volunteer, is it ok to use volunteers this way? Whats the reason for it?

-D

 

[buffalo]

buffalo;1646860:

Fair enough,

But the next town over might be paying a guy 45,000 a year to do the same thing an 18 year old does for free. What about the towns choice to be volunteer, is it ok to use volunteers this way? Whats the reason for it?

-D

Sure it is. Many volunteers go into harms way. They do so without complaint.

In my town the volunteers do a heroic job and I appreciate it. But the townspeople do not wish to pay for these services. There are probably over 200 volunteers x 45,000 - 9 million dollars. It is unlikely to pass.

Everthing in this country always has to be somebodies fault.

 

[KCT]

buffalo;1646860:

Fair enough, But the next town over might be paying a guy 45,000 a year to do the same thing an 18 year old does for free. What about the towns choice to be volunteer, is it ok to use volunteers this way? Whats the reason for it?-D

I suppose you’d have to ask each town. I imagine there are many reasons a town would need to use the money in another way.

If this is happening in your town, I’m sure you can get budget info.
—KCT

 

[Darrel]

Darrel;1646880:

I suppose you’d have to ask each town. I imagine there are many reasons a town would need to use the money in another way.

If this is happening in your town, I’m sure you can get budget info.
—KCT

Well,

The money always comes into question. In CT they all have to be trained at the fire academy. The towns still have to pay huge money for equipment like fire trucks scott packs and the like. The training with constant turnover is expensive as well. But putting all of the money aside, I would still feel better sending a payed pro into a fire. Would any of us feel comfortable going to an 18 year old volunteer firefighters funeral as a first slectman or mayor? I would pay more in taxes for a pro department. I wonder how much we realy save as individual tax payers.

-D

 

[buffalo]

KCT;1646936:

Would any of us feel comfortable going to an 18 year old volunteer firefighters funeral as a first slectman or mayor?

-D

Not anymore than a 40 year old paid fireman’s funeral.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

First question is, what is a living wage.

Second, seems to be some misconnceptions on what a volunteer firefighter is.

I was a volunteer firefighter within two different systems.

Some communities could afford them but they do not wish to increase the tax burden on the tax payers or the tax payers do not wish to pay for it.

Fire departments can get expensive.

Some volunteer firefighters are really what is called part paid.

Even those systems where the volunteer is not paid there are many compensations for them.

They are also covered by a very good health and life plan for injuries on the fire ground.

A volunteer fire department can field many more men than a paid one. Some systems work with both paid and volunteer personnel.

One I worked in has a paid group that covers the day time and then a very scaled down paid group and volunteers for the night.

The other system employs paid fire fighters to take the equipment and run it at the fire scene while the volunteers do the other work.

Its not the towns and cities that do not want them, it is the tax payer. Please keep that in mind.

 

[Darrel]

First question is, what is a living wage.

Second, seems to be some misconnceptions on what a volunteer firefighter is.

I was a volunteer firefighter within two different systems.

Some communities could afford them but they do not wish to increase the tax burden on the tax payers or the tax payers do not wish to pay for it.

Fire departments can get expensive.

Some volunteer firefighters are really what is called part paid.

Even those systems where the volunteer is not paid there are many compensations for them.

They are also covered by a very good health and life plan for injuries on the fire ground.

A volunteer fire department can field many more men than a paid one. Some systems work with both paid and volunteer personnel.

One I worked in has a paid group that covers the day time and then a very scaled down paid group and volunteers for the night.

The other system employs paid fire fighters to take the equipment and run it at the fire scene while the volunteers do the other work.

Its not the towns and cities that do not want them, it is the tax payer. Please keep that in mind.

I can’t make it any more clear then I have. This is about about the towns not the volunteers and there good deads. I still think in principal we should pay firefighters. We pay cops we pay soldiers. My theory is that volunteer departments are a wonderful tradition that became very financialy usable. It’s one of those things we ‘just accept as normal and ok’. Will they be around 50 years from now? What does the Firefighters union think about the issue? Are alot of good jobs lost this way? I guess my main question is, why is it ok for us to use volunteers for dangerous important work that could equal life or death? And why not do the same for police and army?

-D

 

[frleo]

The moral question,

I have no doubt that it is good and honorable to volunteer as a firefighter. In some cases volunteers have out performed payed firefighters. They choose to do good and risk there safety for others while saving lives, property, and providing medical help.

The issue I have is there existence within the town. I feel that towns save serious money sending young people into harms way under the umbrella of volunteers. Many towns can afford full blown paid firefighters and choose volunteers.

Many towns could raise taxes to pay for full blown paid firefighters. The principle I see violated is the idea of a living wage. If we are sending people into situations that could kill them, should they not make a living wage? The people who volunteer are usually young and eventualy get out for the most part. Some older people stay on as leaders.

What say ye?

Come to Jordan or Circle, Montana and wait for the fire call to come in. You may have to wait a month or more, or you may have 7 fires flare up within 12 hours. See Linkhttp://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/07/21/news/state/20-contain.txt

You can not have a paid staff with our sparse population and irregular fire fighting needs.

I run with the wildland fire fighting crew in Garfield County. If we fight fires on federal or state lands we get paid. If we fight on private land we don’t. In the summer, the Bureau of Land Management and the National Wildlife Service both have an engine and a crew in the county and they are paid for the season. We usually help each other out as needed.

Jordan’s neighboring fire dept is 67 miles away in Circle. They are also volunteers. The closest paid dept is in Miles City, 84 miles south of town. I think the Custer County (where Miles City is located) Rural Fire Dept may have a mix of paid and volunteers.

I suppose if you live in a populated area, you might question whether or not you should have a paid dept vs volunteers. Here we see the practicallity of volunteering. 5000 square miles of Garfield county with a population of 1,200 people has a sheriff, an under-sheriff, a deputy and a Highway Patrolman. A completely volunteer ambulance service and the volunteer fire dept. In this case is it just to put the burden on the locals to provide a service that is rarely used as compared to where you might be?

 

[mary_bobo]

Come to Jordan or Circle, Montana and wait for the fire call to come in. You may have to wait a month or more, or you may have 7 fires flare up within 12 hours. See Linkhttp://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/07/21/news/state/20-contain.txt

You can not have a paid staff with our sparse population and irregular fire fighting needs.

I run with the wildland fire fighting crew in Garfield County. If we fight fires on federal or state lands we get paid. If we fight on private land we don’t. In the summer, the Bureau of Land Management and the National Wildlife Service both have an engine and a crew in the county and they are paid for the season. We usually help each other out as needed.

Jordan’s neighboring fire dept is 67 miles away in Circle. They are also volunteers. The closest paid dept is in Miles City, 84 miles south of town. I think the Custer County (where Miles City is located) Rural Fire Dept may have a mix of paid and volunteers.

I suppose if you live in a populated area, you might question whether or not you should have a paid dept vs volunteers. Here we see the practicallity of volunteering. 5000 square miles of Garfield county with a population of 1,200 people has a sheriff, an under-sheriff, a deputy and a Highway Patrolman. A completely volunteer ambulance service and the volunteer fire dept. In this case is it just to put the burden on the locals to provide a service that is rarely used as compared to where you might be?

Beautiful state, Montanta, at least many parts of it. Do the volunteer firemen have other jobs?

 

[mary_bobo]

KCT;1646936:

Well,

The money always comes into question. In CT they all have to be trained at the fire academy. The towns still have to pay huge money for equipment like fire trucks scott packs and the like. The training with constant turnover is expensive as well. But putting all of the money aside, I would still feel better sending a payed pro into a fire. Would any of us feel comfortable going to an 18 year old volunteer firefighters funeral as a first slectman or mayor? I would pay more in taxes for a pro department. I wonder how much we realy save as individual tax payers.

-D

The part of the country where you live is densely populated and in a better financial state to have a regular fire department. But that is not true in very small towns and villages. There is no tax base to pay for that. Folks who don’t accept things the way they are in these small towns usually move to a larger, more populated area.

 

[frleo]

Beautiful state, Montanta, at least many parts of it. Do the volunteer firemen have other jobs?

Most have jobs in town, but some are ranchers and farmers.

You can end up with some strange combonations sometimes. You might have a mechanic, a priest the sheriff or a deputy all in the same firetruck.

Or, in the ambulance I’ve been on it where you have the VP from the bank, a priest and a waitress making the run.

 

[mary_bobo]

Darrel;1646880:

Sure it is. Many volunteers go into harms way. They do so without complaint.

In my town the volunteers do a heroic job and I appreciate it. But the townspeople do not wish to pay for these services. There are probably over 200 volunteers x 45,000 - 9 million dollars. It is unlikely to pass.

Everthing in this country always has to be somebodies fault.

Usually somebody else’s fault.

 

[Darrel]

buffalo;1646907:

Usually somebody else’s fault.

Mary,

This quote here is not my quote I think it’s a quote from buffalo.

Originally Posted by Darrel

forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif

*Sure it is. Many volunteers go into harms way. They do so without complaint. *

In my town the volunteers do a heroic job and I appreciate it. But the townspeople do not wish to pay for these services. There are probably over 200 volunteers x 45,000 - 9 million dollars. It is unlikely to pass.

Everthing in this country always has to be somebodies fault.

-D

 

[Darrel]

Darrel;1646987:

The part of the country where you live is densely populated and in a better financial state to have a regular fire department. But that is not true in very small towns and villages. There is no tax base to pay for that. Folks who don’t accept things the way they are in these small towns usually move to a larger, more populated area.

True,

Yet where there is a will there is a way. I don’t dispute the logistics issues of the need for volunteers. I do question the principal. If it’s sound principal to pay all firefighters then we could make it happen. We dont have towns without water or sewage because of small tax payer bases usualy. I’m sure the state could assist.

-D

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I can’t make it any more clear then I have. This is about about the towns not the volunteers and there good deads. I still think in principal we should pay firefighters. We pay cops we pay soldiers. My theory is that volunteer departments are a wonderful tradition that became very financialy usable. It’s one of those things we ‘just accept as normal and ok’. Will they be around 50 years from now? What does the Firefighters union think about the issue? Are alot of good jobs lost this way? I guess my main question is, why is it ok for us to use volunteers for dangerous important work that could equal life or death? And why not do the same for police and army?

-D

Again, it is not the volunteers’ fault nor the towns fault. It is joe taxpayer who refuses to pay for it though his taxes.

I was a part paid firefighter and every year when the vote for taxes came it it was a very hard thing to get the money we needed let alone more.

As to what the union thinks, they think what all unions think, that volunteer steal jobs. I am not a pro-union guy so I will leave it at that.

Police departments also use volunteers, they are called auxiliaries (there is another term some places use but I can’t think of it right now) and they are police and carry weapons. Some departments place some limits on them but some do not.

 

[frleo]

Again, it is not the volunteers’ fault nor the towns fault. It is joe taxpayer who refuses to pay for it though his taxes.

I was a part paid firefighter and every year when the vote for taxes came it it was a very hard thing to get the money we needed let alone more.

As to what the union thinks, they think what all unions think, that volunteer steal jobs. I am not a pro-union guy so I will leave it at that.

Police departments also use volunteers, they are called auxiliaries (there is another term some places use but I can’t think of it right now) and they are police and carry weapons. Some departments place some limits on them but some do not.

Sheriff reserves are common.

While the under sheriff was mobilized with his guard unit, the local sheriff’s office hired another deputy. He is now a member of the sheriff’s reserve since the department can not hire another person without going into a whole new pay structure. They are sending him off to the law enforcement academy though so he may be able to get a job someplace else if he choses.