Voter’s Guide for Serious Catholics

[Lampo]

I’ve done that-for as long as I’ve been able to vote. I’m tired of being used by the Republican party. I’ve voted for them and voted for them and voted for them-and what have they done with my vote? How have their actions supported my beliefs? When I look at my beliefs and try to line them up with the actions of the Republican party, I cannot find enough common ground to continue to support them.

So you get back at them by voting for the candidate of the other party that flatly admits he/she is pro-abortion?

 

[Lampo]

Why not go further? Why not support candidates who actually do something on moral issues that the Church has identified as non negotiable?

I couldn’t agree more. That’s why I’m seriously considering to “write-in” a candidate in November.

 

[frankadams]

And yes, we never will get a reply from Frank Adams on what issues convinced him it was ok to vote for John Kerry, who advocates taxpayer funded abortion on demand.

Posters can check Post #87 and #213 if they want to see my detailed answer to this question. I don’t want to reproduce it here (again), but I did want to expose Estebob’s statement for the vicious and spiteful lie that it is. Estebob may view lies combined with posting a clever green emoticon as being a legitimate response. I do not.

 

[frankadams]

So you get back at them by voting for the candidate of the other party that flatly admits he/she is pro-abortion?

I can’t speak for Fitswimmer, but I doubt any serious Catholic voter votes in order to “get back at” a political party. Many Catholic voters, using the same ideas of “proportionality” and “limiting harm” that the Church instructs us in, have come to the conclusion that the “pro-life” party will not end abortion. History, logic, and facts seem to support this conclusion.

 

[Lampo]

I can’t speak for Fitswimmer, but I doubt any serious Catholic voter votes in order to “get back at” a political party. Many Catholic voter, using the same ideas of “proportionality” and “limiting harm” that the Church instructs us in, have come to the conclusion that the “pro-life” party will not end abortion. History, logic, and facts seem to support this conclusion.

That makes sense and I agree. What do we do? If there is a candidate that says he/she is 100% pro-life across the board running against a candidate that says he/she is 75% pro-life across the board, I’m going to vote for the former and not assume he/she is lying.

 

[Fitswimmer]

So you get back at them by voting for the candidate of the other party that flatly admits he/she is pro-abortion?

I don’t recall mentioning who I have chosen to vote for-it would be pretty difficult to do since I haven’t chosen yet. I just know who I’m NOT going to vote for.

But I would ask how are the results going to be different? If I vote Republican, I vote for a party that has boasted of it’s plan to end abortion for 35 years and done nothing-even when they had the perfect opportunities. (not to mention that they had a significant hand in appointing the judges who made it legal) If I vote Democrat, I vote for a party that has said they will do nothing to end abortion and have done exactly what they said they would do.

So, since the results regarding abortion are the same either way-I have the choice of going to a third party, a write in, staying home or moving on to other significant issues.

My pastor suggests that we move onto other Catholic issues-but clearly states that is his personal opinion, not Church teaching.

 

[Lampo]

I don’t recall mentioning who I have chosen to vote for-it would be pretty difficult to do since I haven’t chosen yet. I just know who I’m NOT going to vote for.

You didn’t. I didn’t mean to insinuate that you did. Sorry about that.

But I would ask how are the results going to be different? If I vote Republican, I vote for a party that has boasted of it’s plan to end abortion for 35 years and done nothing-even when they had the perfect opportunities. (not to mention that they had a significant hand in appointing the judges who made it legal) If I vote Democrat, I vote for a party that has said they will do nothing to end abortion and have done exactly what they said they would do.

The results are going to be different for you when you might have to answer to the Almighty. When you vote for someone that is pro-life you have done the moral, right thing. You cannot control how they actually legislate however. The burden is off of you. When you vote for a pro-abortion candidate you automatically have done the immoral, wrong thing.

So, since the results regarding abortion are the same either way-I have the choice of going to a third party, a write in, staying home or moving on to other significant issues.

I’m leaning towards the write-in.

My pastor suggests that we move onto other Catholic issues-but clearly states that is his personal opinion, not Church teaching.

At least he admits that.

 

[Fitswimmer]

What am I to say about voting for a President who launched a pre-emptive war that cost thousands of lives? How do I answer the question of why I voted for a Party that continually worked to enrich the top 1% while putting more Americans out of work and into poverty? How do I answer the question of why I voted for a President who vetoed a health care bill for children?? How do I answer my Lord when He asks why I supported candidates who advocated the death penalty-even for the mentally ill?

“oh, but Lord, he said he was Pro Life!”

I keep going back to the story of the Sheep and the Goats. The difference in the two groups wasn’t in what they SAID, it was in what they did or didn’t DO.

 

[Lampo]

What am I to say about voting for a President who launched a pre-emptive war that cost thousands of lives? How do I answer the question of why I voted for a Party that continually worked to enrich the top 1% while putting more Americans out of work and into poverty? How do I answer the question of why I voted for a President who vetoed a health care bill for children?? How do I answer my Lord when He asks why I supported candidates who advocated the death penalty-even for the mentally ill?

“oh, but Lord, he said he was Pro Life!”

I keep going back to the story of the Sheep and the Goats. The difference in the two groups wasn’t in what they SAID, it was in what they did or didn’t DO.

You are not able to know for certain how they will vote/legislate. You can only hope they will keep their word. Those issues that you mentioned come after the life issues. Health care for children doesn’t matter if the children are murdered before they’re born.

 

[Lampo]

“oh, but Lord, he said he was Pro Life!”

So do you think the Lord will say, “Since he did not hold up his end of the bargain, I’m going to hold you responsible.”?

 

[SoCalRC]

So do you think the Lord will say, “Since he did not hold up his end of the bargain, I’m going to hold you responsible.”?

If you keep accepting lip service and an absence of results again and again, and the candidates promote other evils, why would He not?

 

[Lampo]

If you keep accepting lip service and an absence of results again and again, and the candidates promote other evils, why would He not?

You don’t know each time it’s going to be lip service. I just don’t see how one votes for the candidate that admits he is pro-abortion because you don’t believe the other candidate when he says he’s pro-life. What if you write-in your candidate and then he ends up being a pro-abortionist? Would God say, “Since he did not hold up his end of the bargain, I’m going to hold you responsible.” in that circumstance too?

 

[Fitswimmer]

If you keep accepting lip service and an absence of results again and again, and the candidates promote other evils, why would He not?

True, and if we continue to accept lip service, why should anyone give us anything more substantial? They’re getting their power without having to do anything!

 

[Lampo]

…if we continue to accept lip service, …

How do you not accept lip service? By voting for the candidate that says what he will do and then does it? - ala allow abortion on demand? Then you can tell the Lord, “oh, but Lord, he said he was Pro Abortion!”

 

[Ender]

If I vote Republican, I vote for a party that has boasted of it’s plan to end abortion for 35 years and done nothing-even when they had the perfect opportunities.

The Republican party has consistently opposed abortion. There is no “plan” to end it since only the Supreme Court has that authority. I will ask again: what is it a president can do to end abortion and would you support him if you felt there was a likelihood that he would do it?

My pastor suggests that we move onto other Catholic issues-but clearly states that is his personal opinion, not Church teaching.

Here’s an opinion from Archbishop Chaput on the issue:

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_myblog&Itemid=127

Ender

 

[Fitswimmer]

How do you not accept lip service? By voting for the candidate that says what he will do and then does it? - ala allow abortion on demand? Then you can tell the Lord, “oh, but Lord, he said he was Pro Abortion!”

I would consider the other line that you left out.

If you keep accepting lip service and an absence of results again and again, and the candidates promote other evils, why would He not?

Do we not have to answer for those other evils? Or are they mitigated because the candidate said he was Pro Life? Conversely, if the Pro Abortion candidate ends a war (and doesn’t start another one), makes significant advances to end poverty, makes health care more available or does other positive things to help people live better-is that all negated because of the Pro abortion plank? What if the actual number of abortions is reduced by other policies the Pro abortion candidate enacts?

 

[estesbob]

I would consider the other line that you left out.

Do we not have to answer for those other evils? Or are they mitigated because the candidate said he was Pro Life? Conversely, if the Pro Abortion candidate ends a war (and doesn’t start another one), makes significant advances to end poverty, makes health care more available or does other positive things to help people live better-is that all negated because of the Pro abortion plank? What if the actual number of abortions is reduced by other policies the Pro abortion candidate enacts?

\

A peron who supports unlimited abortion on demand is morally unfit to hold office.

 

[Lampo]

What if the actual number of abortions is reduced by other policies the Pro abortion candidate enacts?

Then would he consider that result a failure? That would be a good thing, but unlikely. I’m not willing to take the slight chance that a pro-abortionist’s other policies might reduce abortions. That torchers logic and commonsense.

 

[Lampo]

Do we not have to answer for those other evils?

Sure we do. But we must address the most evil first.

 

[Lampo]

I would consider the other line that you left out.

Do we not have to answer for those other evils? Or are they mitigated because the candidate said he was Pro Life? Conversely, if the Pro Abortion candidate ends a war (and doesn’t start another one), makes significant advances to end poverty, makes health care more available or does other positive things to help people live better-is that all negated because of the Pro abortion plank? What if the actual number of abortions is reduced by other policies the Pro abortion candidate enacts?

Here again is what the Church you belong to says about abortion:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - #2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish. 75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes. 76

Please show me somewhere either in the Catechism, Encyclical or some other official Church document that justifies voting for someone that directly opposes this teaching.