Voter's Guides

[JoeyWarren]

the poor - half-socialism is working splendid in Europe

Do unto others as you would have them done unto you. What you do for the least of mine you do to me

the unborn - way down at the bottom (for you, and for those you vote for…)

It’s at the top. Does it make it more of a priority?

the thirsty…
the hungry - can’t you consolidate these two?

Jesus did not consolidate them.

the sick - socialist medicine is excellent in Canada, right?

I don’t know. I play euchre with a lot of Canadians, the vast majority have no complaint. God uses our technology to heal and cure the sick. American Greed in Pharamceutical Sales is not very Jesus like.

the imprisoned - true that dems are big fans of criminals
the naked…

So was Jesus.

the homeless - easily consolidated…

Did Jesus consoldiate them?

the enslaved - in America?

We are enslaved by a number of things. Just think hard about it.

the unemployed - right this is a Dem winner

You want to screw the unemployed? I have Catholic brothers that are unemployed do to base closures.

the uninsured - because you shouldn’t have to pay for some services

I hope you never become unemployed and loose your insurance and something happens to a loved one in your immediate family and hospital rejects sevices. A lot of Catholic hospitals were shutdown due to the Protestant hospitals rejecting non-insured patients and sending them to the charity of of a Catholic Hospital.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I been searching for abortion statistics. It seems the newest statistics are 10 years old. There is no new statistics. Why is this.

So based on 1996 here are some statistics.

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 46 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 126,000

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who’s having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4%

Catholic women account for 31.3%,

**Jewish women account for 1.3%, and **

women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7%

I8% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.

But then again these are 1996 statistics.

Source: abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

If someone have a link to some newer and verifiable statistics, please share.

MAYBE IT’S BETTER TO BE JUDAIC…

 

[estesbob]

Once again, you are replacing Catholic teaching with your own definition of the term “proportionate reasons”…Church teaching does not say that proportionality applies only when faced with two pro-abortion candidates…you are just flat out making that up. You are trying to take away peoples right to decide to vote how they choose to vote, no doubt to serve your own politically partisan ends. I did not vote for Bush in 2004, because I do not believe a word the man says…that was my proportionate reason for voteing for his opponent who called himself prochoice. Neither Bush nor Kerry promised to end abortion, both said they were personally opposed to abortion. That is proportionate reasoning…even though Bush called himself prolife, he had no credibility with this voter so I voted for a candidate who called himself prochoice but at least had some credibility with me. I am a democrat, but of all the candidates talked about for the 2008 election I would most align myself with Hagel or McCain…both are Catholic and the Republicans have never nominated a Catholic for president yet so it is very unlikely either of them will get the nomination. Unfortunately I will probably end up haveing to vote for some prochoice democrat over a “pseudo”-prolife republican. But if I am still around in 2008, I will vote for the man or woman I JUDGE as best for the country and most in line with Catholic teaching.

I and others have posted several times the catholic teaching on this. You choose to ignore it . Thats fine FOR YOU. You can deal with God anyway you want over it(or more imoroitantly anyway HE wants). BUT Catholics visiting these forums need to know you arer dead wrong when you say one can licitly vote for a pro-aborion canidate over a pro-life canidate if you think he is “porportionally” better. That is flat out wrong-it is your perverted defintion created by you to justify your supporting of abortion It is wrong for you to try and pass off your weak rationalizations as Church Teaching.

 

[estesbob]

I been searching for abortion statistics. It seems the newest statistics are 10 years old. There is no new statistics. Why is this.

So based on 1996 here are some statistics.

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 46 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 126,000

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who’s having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4%

Catholic women account for 31.3%,

**Jewish women account for 1.3%, and **

women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7%

I8% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.

But then again these are 1996 statistics.

Source: abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

If someone have a link to some newer and verifiable statistics, please share.

MAYBE IT’S BETTER TO BE JUDAIC…

And the point is?

 

[estesbob]

There are more issues as well. Should I list them all?

Only if you follow them up with a statment from the Magestrium that they are more important than abortion. But of course how can any issue trump the Right to Life???

It is appearst that your Faith is poor second to your politics. it should be the other way around.

 

[estesbob]

Corki;1563497:

I think you are putting the ONLY in the wrong place. The USCCB said it would be a sin to vote for a candidate just because he/she is pro-choice. They did not say that this was the only way to vote sinfully. They couldn’t possibly list all of the possibilities.

No Corki, I put it exactly where I meant to and you know exactly what I meant.

This is not in any way proportionate to the death of 4000 per year.

4000? EstesBob claims it is 1.3 million per year. Sort of like aporx. Bush claims he has only killled 30,000 civilians in Iraq and those stupid old folks at MIT and Johns Hopkins think it is more like 600,000. Our constitution prohibits “loading” courts, Corki. Nominations to the court are not to be put forth because of their views on speicific issues that may come before the court. So attempts to vote in politicians who will put prolife judges on the bench is contrary to the spirit of the constitution. I don’t recall Jesus ever promoting lawlessness in his Gospel, do you? If you want ot outlaw abortion the way to do it is by amending the US constitution…something that doesn’t get talked about anymore because it doesn’t help so-called prolifers elected.

The 4,000 figure, as anyone who follows the issue at all knows, is aprox. # of abortions per DAY. You supports of killing children because you hate Bush is duly noted.

 

[Pug]

Who’s having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4%

Catholic women account for 31.3%,

**Jewish women account for 1.3%, and **

…]

MAYBE IT’S BETTER TO BE JUDAIC…

I thought it might be helpful to know that in 2001, 1.3% of the US population was Jewish. I’m not good at looking stuff up on the internet, so maybe someone else could find out the stats for 1996 to match yours.

I think if there were more Jewish people in the US, they likely would account for more of the abortions. I’d also want to know how many times they are inclined to get pregnant and how many kids they are likely to have. I’d also want to know what type of Jewish person is on the poll. Are they religious or not, I wonder? Stuff like this could influence the numbers.

Sadly, I think there are many people who were at least nominally raised Catholic who might choose to have an abortion. Such is man.

 

[buffalo]

I didn’t know Bush killed anyone in Iraq? How did I miss this news? :banghead:

There is a simple solution. Tell Congress to not fund military operations in Iraq from now on. Ohhhhh! They won’t do it? Ask them why? And ask them why they voted for it in the first place?

Dumb old Bush really hoodwinked all those intelligent folks didn’t he?

 

[buffalo]

Sadly, I think there are many people who were at least nominally raised Catholic who might choose to have an abortion. Such is man.

Cafeteria Catholics account for many. Anyone who is a faithful Catholic and understands the faith won’t have an abortion for they undestand it is homicide.

Blame obstinate denial, poor catechesis, secularism and selfishness.

 

[Pug]

Blame obstinate denial, poor catechesis, secularism and selfishness.

Poor catechisis. Ouch. I’ve always known about the quote in James where he says that teachers will be judged more, but poor catechesis could lead to a death. Sobering thought for me, a member of an RCIA team.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Which reinforces the idea of separation of church and state…

The separation of Church and state all too often is used as an excuse to silence people of faith and discourage them from legitimately participating in the public square. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution, of course, does not advocate for a separation of Church and state at all, but rather the protection of religious freedom from the state.

Our founding fathers intended all persons to have the equal right to voice their opinions, including those based on religious convictions. Even more, they understood that it was imperative that the state not infringe upon the religious beliefs of its citizens. The Constitution is aimed at allowing all people to have a voice in the government, including those whose voice is distinctively religious.

In other words, there is nothing in the Constitution excluding people from bringing their faith into the public square.

(Words from Most Reverend Thomas J. Olmsted)

 

[mary_bobo]

And the point is?

And these stats prove what? That people don’t give a rats nose what is right and what is wrong. And folks who use stats such as this to try to prove that it is okey are just plain wrong.

 

[phantom]

That’s not how it is to be read. It is not a sin for proportionate reasons to vote pro-choice when given no other choice. In that situation you are not voting because the pro-choice position.

That is not what the Pope or the Bishops say, so how can you say that is the teaching of the Catholic Church?

 

[phantom]

I and others have posted several times the catholic teaching on this. You choose to ignore it . Thats fine FOR YOU. You can deal with God anyway you want over it(or more imoroitantly anyway HE wants). BUT Catholics visiting these forums need to know you arer dead wrong when you say one can licitly vote for a pro-aborion canidate over a pro-life canidate if you think he is “porportionally” better. That is flat out wrong-it is your perverted defintion created by you to justify your supporting of abortion It is wrong for you to try and pass off your weak rationalizations as Church Teaching.

I do NOT support abortion and I do not support fake politicians who claim to be prolife and get in office and do nothing about it. I have listened to the Republican party use this issue for 25 years and do NOTHING.

 

[phantom]

I didn’t know Bush killed anyone in Iraq? How did I miss this news? :banghead:

There is a simple solution. Tell Congress to not fund military operations in Iraq from now on. Ohhhhh! They won’t do it? Ask them why? And ask them why they voted for it in the first place?

Dumb old Bush really hoodwinked all those intelligent folks didn’t he?

Your right, Buffalo…Bush wouldn’t have the guts to serve in combat himself, he sends others to do hi dirty work.

 

[buffalo]

That is not what the Pope or the Bishops say, so how can you say that is the teaching of the Catholic Church?

I’ll try again:

*Ten Easy Steps to… *Voting with a Clear Conscience
*by Fr. Frank Pavone
*
*…*Pope John Paul II put it this way: “Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights – for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture – is false and illusory if *the right to life, *the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination” (Christifideles Laici, 1988).

 

[buffalo]

Your right, Buffalo…Bush wouldn’t have the guts to serve in combat himself, he sends others to do hi dirty work.

I am truly amazed. Please answer the questions posed.

 

[buffalo]

…*Living the Gospel of Life *declares, “Any politics of human life must work to resist the violence of war and the scandal of capital punishment. Any politics of human dignity must seriously address issues of racism, poverty, hunger, employment, education, housing, and health care. Therefore, Catholics should eagerly involve themselves as advocates for the weak and marginalized in all these areas. Catholic public officials are obliged to address each of these issues as they seek to build consistent policies which promote respect for the human person at all stages of life. But being ‘right’ in such matters can never excuse a wrong choice regarding direct attacks on innocent human life. Indeed, the failure to protect and defend life in its most vulnerable stages renders suspect any claims to the ‘rightness’ of positions in other matters affecting the poorest and least powerful of the human community. If we understand the human person as the “temple of the Holy Spirit” – the living house of God – then these latter issues fall logically into place as the crossbeams and walls of that house. All direct attacks on innocent human life, such as abortion and euthanasia, strike at the house’s foundation. These directly and immediately violate the human person’s most fundamental right the right to life. Neglect of these issues is the equivalent of building our house on sand” (23).

 

[buffalo]

…In particular, capital punishment and the waging of war are troubling to the consciences of many voters. The Church clearly urges us to avoid both, but also teaches that at times, both activities can be morally legitimate. Take, for example, what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) wrote in a letter in July 2004: “*Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. …While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia” (Letter to Cardinal McCarrick, n.3).

Case closed…
*

 

[buffalo]

Your right, Buffalo…Bush wouldn’t have the guts to serve in combat himself, he sends others to do hi dirty work.

Do you believe our system of government is a dictatorship? :banghead: