Voting for Pro Abortion candidates

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What would constitute “other” grave proportionate moral issues? Well, I came up with a list of 10 just as a thought experiment (see previous post), but it would depend on the (1) candidate; (2) political office at stake; and (3) political situation and issues facing the electorate at the time. What does the candidate’s history tell me about him? Where do his interests lie? The list would not be the same voting for the local dog catcher as it would be for the President, a legislator, or a judge. Each office has distinct considerations within its own balliwick.

For example, this year, the cutbacks proposed by the Allegheny County Port Authority in the event the Pennsylvania General Assembly does not come up with $72MM to cover its budget deficit will likely leave the City of Pittsburgh a ghost town. Fares will increase out of the range of the minimum-wage workers who will no longer be able to pay them. Routes will be cut leaving workers unable to get to their places of employment, and the elderly, homebound, and disabled will be stranded, as the Access vans are already stretched to capacity. Unemployment will skyrocket, the welfare rolls will swell, and traffic will slow to a crawl throughout the county. Crime will increase. People will suffer. Jobless and uninsured, they will get sick and die. Children will not be properly educated. Of particular interest to you, Planned Parenthood will grin as the panicked underclass crowd their doors to rid themselves of responsabilities they can no longer afford, as is the trend under these circumstances.

This will happen because the Federal government refused to approve a bid to make Route 80 a toll road, which the Port Authority desperately needed to balance its budget. And the General Assembly refused to come up with emergency funds to cover the loss, despite the desperate urgings of Gov. Rendell. We will also be the only state not to tax natural gas drilling. And the lame-duck Governer was powerless to do anything about it. You see, the corporate lobbyists funding Sen. Toomey and Gov. Corbett don’t actually have to live here, and they are beholden only to their shareholders, so if Western Pennsylvnaia degenerates into a backwater, it’s nothing to them. Those that can afford it will be buying more gasoline. That’s the bottom line. All else is peripheral.

So I voted for Sestak and Onorato and I voted for Democrats running for seats in the state legislature. And many lost. But when I run into my neighbor, a soon-to-be-unemployed single mother of 3 whose route to work will be cut March 30th, and whose fate I really don’t want to think about at the moment, I’ll be able to look her in the eyes. And I’ll be able to sleep at night. And I’ll recieve communion with a clear conscience.

Perhaps nobody on this message board is guilty of this, but there are those who cling to a “one-issue” solution to provide a post-hoc justification for their pre-existing political beliefs. It’s very convenient, and it spares them the pain and cognitive dissonance of actually having to think about the consequences of their political decisions. Indeed, there’s a peculiar
American pride in advancing an anarchist / capitalist / libertarian / every-man-for-himself Weltanschauung that becomes giddily gratifying when one believes one can cloak it with the mantle of religious respectability. “Hey, I would have liked to have voted for the guy who’d’ve made sure your dad could support your family, but the other guy said the ‘magic words’, what can I say? Dominus vobiscum and lots o’ luck to ya”

The political process isn’t that simple, is it?
Have you thought about voting with a “Catholic” conscience and forming a group at Church who would be willing to give her financial help and support? Then you could really sleep with a clear conscience instead of a narcotized (lulled) one.

The politcal process may be complex, but the Catholic one isn’t. It is really very simple. 'Thou shall not kill '.(nor be the cause of it) That is where Christianity starts.

So don’t give me the cop out of “having to look in your neighbor’s eye” unless you are going to do something to help her.
 
The Catholic Church teaches many intrinsic evils apart from abortion and euthanasia.

Yes, intrinsic evils may never be condoned.

The point is, when voting, politically, the choices are not always (if ever!) available between a candidate who supports all Catholic moral teaching vs. those who don’t.

When no one candidate supports all Catholic moral teaching, a prudential and informed judgement must be made. And this can include voting for a candidate who, ostensibly, disagrees with Catholic teaching on one or more “intrinsically evil” issues.

It comes down to a properly formed conscience.
Really. If you voted for bo. you goofed and your conscience wasn’t clear.

There has never been a political candidate who supports ALL Catholic moral teaching. You are wrong. One must vote according to the hierarchy of good and evil. Intrinsic Evils are at the apex of all evil. Prudential Judgement may be used on PRUDENTIAL issues, such as economy, help for the poor, war etc. In voting, one must vote for the candidate who does not promote Intrinsic evil. ie. bo. completely pro abort. McCain pro abort in cases of rape or incest. bo for embryonic stem cell research. McCain changed stance on this and finally was against it. Which of these candidates was following the natural law to a greater degree? It was McCain. Not because he was/is Republican, but because he, to all appearances, would contain the evil of abortion and would not promote the exploitation of embryos/babies for scientific research.

If both candidates were to support an Intrinsic Evil, then because of our obligation to vote, we must look at other issues which are of Prudential Judgement, or vote a third party.

Abortion is not a political issue, but a MORAL one and must be faced with the strongest morality we have in our bodies and minds.
 
Really. If you voted for bo. you goofed and your conscience wasn’t clear.
Your opinion. Not Catholic Church teaching (regardless of who I voted for!). Let’s be clear on the difference between Church teaching and our own opinions.
There has never been a political candidate who supports ALL Catholic moral teaching. You are wrong.
Ok, Give me an example of where I am wrong? Just one?
One must vote according to the hierarchy of good and evil.
No, one must vote according to one’s properly formed conscience.
Intrinsic Evils are at the apex of all evil.
No, intrinsically evil acts are acts that are always wrong, morally, Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that intrinsically evil acts are “the apex of all evil.”

Do you know otherwise?
In voting, one must vote for the candidate who does not promote Intrinsic evil
Where does the Catholic teach this, precisely? Thanks for your reference.
Abortion is not a political issue, but a MORAL one and must be faced with the strongest morality we have in our bodies and minds.
Don’t be silly. OF course abortion is a moral issue, but it’s also a political issue.

I am in the U.S. If you can show me where, in the U.S. the Church teaches that abortion is not a political issue, please provide a reference.

For Catholics, it is a moral issue and therefore also a political issue.
 
Your opinion. Not Catholic Church teaching (regardless of who I voted for!). Let’s be clear on the difference between Church teaching and our own opinions.

Ok, Give me an example of where I am wrong? Just one?

No, one must vote according to one’s properly formed conscience.

No, intrinsically evil acts are acts that are always wrong, morally, Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that intrinsically evil acts are “the apex of all evil.”

Do you know otherwise?

Where does the Catholic teach this, precisely? Thanks for your reference.

Don’t be silly. OF course abortion is a moral issue, but it’s also a political issue.

I am in the U.S. If you can show me where, in the U.S. the Church teaches that abortion is not a political issue, please provide a reference.

For Catholics, it is a moral issue and therefore also a political issue.
One’s “properly formed conscience” would first of all consider the hierarchy of evil. The Intrinsic Evils that are a part of the Dem. platform are “life” issues. LIFE is the beginning, the apex of all other issues. Therefore the life issues, or rather the Intrinsic Evils which threaten life should be to any Christian, the apex of all other issues.

Of course there are those whom even if the Pope were confronting them individually would still not believe this.
 
The other night on the internet I spoke to someone who is a seminarian, he said “is disappointed at some of the people he follows on here; the Republican Party isn’t the “Catholic Party”, and voting Democrat is okay”

I replied “well its not catholic to vote for any candidate who supports abortion, stem cell research or homosexual marriage”

they went on to say

“Republicans aren’t very pro-life themselves. Supporting an unjust war, the death penalty, embryonic stem cell research. GoBama”

and “We aren’t single issue voters. We need to participate in the future of our country while preserving Catholic Social Teaching”

and

“The dignity [of human life] goes beyond abortion. Also defending others from unjust war, the death penalty, pro-healthcre.”

I said that voting for a pro abortion candidate no matter what is wrong because in a way you are supporting them in everything that they are doing by voting them into office.

He replied with "No, I am not. Is the bus driver who drives the girl to the street where the abortion clinic is guilty? "

Am I wrong with what I was saying? Was he going along with church teaching in what he was saying? I am sort of thinking about this because he is learning to be a priest and I thought he would know better than I do about voting. He is correct?
The seminarian you refer to seems to me to be articulating Catholic teaching completely faithfully.
 
In an unprecedented move, Pope Benedict lead a world wide vigil for the protection of unborn children. In his homily he stated…

There are cultural tendencies that seek to anesthetize consciences with misleading motivations. With regard to the embryo in the womb, science itself highlights its autonomy capable of interaction with the mother, the coordination of biological processes, the continuity of development, the growing complexity of the organism. This is not an accumulation of biological material, but a new living being, dynamic and wonderfully ordered, a new unique human being. So was Jesus in Mary’s womb, so it was for all of us in our mother’s womb. With the ancient Christian writer Tertullian we can say: ” he who will be a man is already one” (Apologeticum IX, 8), there is no reason not to consider him a person from conception.

I make mine Pope John Paul II’s passionate appeal to** the responsibility of each and every individual:** ” respect, protect, love and serve life, **every human life! **Only in this direction will you find justice, development, true freedom, peace and happiness!”(Encyclical Evangelium vitae, 5). I urge the protagonists of politics, economic and social communications to do everything in their power to promote a culture which respects human life, to provide favorable conditions and support networks for the reception and development of life.

To the Virgin Mary, who welcomed the Son of God made man with faith, with her maternal womb, with loving care, with nurturing support and vibrant with love, we entrust our commitment and prayer in favour of unborn life . We do in the liturgy – which is the place where we live the truth and where truth lives with us – worshiping the divine Eucharist, we contemplate Christ’s body, that body who took flesh from Mary by the Holy Spirit, and from her was born in Bethlehem for our salvation. Ave, verum Corpus, natum de Maria Virgine!

Lord Jesus,
You who faithfully visit and fulfil with your Presence
the Church and the history of men;
You who in the miraculous Sacrament of your Body and Blood
render us participants in divine Life
and allow us a foretaste of the joy of eternal Life;
We adore and bless you.

Prostrated before You, source and lover of Life,
truly present and alive among us, we beg you.

Reawaken in us respect for every unborn life,
make us capable of seeing in the fruit of the maternal womb
the miraculous work of the Creator,
open our hearts to generously welcoming every child
that comes into life.

Bless all families,
sanctify the union of spouses,
render fruitful their love.

Accompany the choices of legislative assemblies
with the light of your Spirit,
so that peoples and nations may recognise and respect
the sacred nature of life, of ever human life.

Guide the work of scientists and doctors,
so that all progress contributes to the integral well-being of the person,
and no-one endures suppression or injustice.

Gift creative charity to administrators and economists,
so they may realise and promote sufficient conditions
so that young families can serenely embrace
the birth of new children

Console the married couples who suffer
because they are unable to have children
and in Your goodness provide for them.

Teach us all to care for orphaned or abandoned children,
so they may experience the warmth of your Charity,
the consolation of your divine Heart.

Together with Mary, Your Mother, the great believer,
in whose womb you took on our human nature,
we wait to receive from You, our Only True Good and Saviour,
the strength to love and serve life,
in anticipation of living forever in You,
in communion with the Blessed Trinity.
Amen. 👍

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2010/11/28/benedict-xvi-leads-vigil-for-all-nascent-human-life/
 
**1: **“Sure candidate/party A supports killing innocent people inside the womb, but I’ll still vote for them because their other policies are so good.”

2: “Sure candidate/party A supports killing innocent people outside the womb, but I’ll still vote for them because their other policies are so good.”

**3: **“Sure candidate/party A supports killing me, but I’ll still vote for them because their other policies are so good.”

If you’d not vote for 2 or 3, why would you vote for 1?
 
This is exactly why America is in such danger right now. Being a one-issue voter is dangerous and will ultimately bring America down. Republicans know this, and they take advantage of it. Republicans could start all the false wars they want, and deny kids health insurance all because they have the one-issue voters that falsely believe Obama controls abortions. Basically can do whatever they want because people fall for this trap.
Republicans support killing people for crimes (playing God). Many people killed by the death penalty are later proven innocent. Republicans support the “me” attitude, which has left thousands of kids without health insurance. Not very “pro-life.”

The cure for this? Educate America. Only about 25 % of Americans have passports and fewer ever travel to diverse, populated cities. Studies have shown that people who experience diversity tend to be more open-minded, better educated, and do not fall into the one-issue vote trap.
 
One’s “properly formed conscience” would first of all consider the hierarchy of evil. The Intrinsic Evils that are a part of the Dem. platform are “life” issues. LIFE is the beginning, the apex of all other issues. Therefore the life issues, or rather the Intrinsic Evils which threaten life should be to any Christian, the apex of all other issues.

Of course there are those whom even if the Pope were confronting them individually would still not believe this.
A properly formed conscience involves many things, as the Catholic Church teaches, and as the Catechism states.

The Church (and Catechism) does not teach that any political party contains “evils” as part of their platform.

The Catholic Church teaches that certain things are intrinsically evil, regardless of a given party or platform. No preference for Democrats, Republicans, etc.

This is the first I’ve heard us of the word “apex” relevant to Catholic moral teaching, particularly regarding intrinsic evils. Is there anywhere the Magisterium uses this term? Just curious.
 
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