Voting Republican

[wcknight]

Not every muslim wants to commit suicide for the cause. It’s only the fanatics who believe such nonsense. To assume that every prisoner was a fanatic willing to commit suicide and guilty without trial or investigation is typical Republican mentality that only the guilty are arrested.

The fact that many have been released already proves that this was not the case.

 

[steveandersen]

A friend recently presented this argument to me when discussing voting and the moral issues that we face today, especially abortion: “The Republican party is the party that is pro-life. But we have had a Republican president for 6 years now, and the Republicans have held the House for many years as well, and STILL nothing definitive has been done to bring an end to abortion. We vote Republican (for some it is for many issues) largely to combat abortion. But is anything actually being done by our Republican politicians to put an end to abortion? Certainly the opportunity is there…”

That was the gist of the statement. Any thoughts on this?

Remember that of the 9 judges who decided Roe v Wade 7 were appointed by republicans and 6 of those went with the majority.
So claiming that the Republicans are necessary pro-life may not be true

The way the law is now there is not a whole lot either party can do short of amending the constitution, controlling the purse strings, or trying to build a law that will pass constitutional muster.

The current court is very conservative and a loathed to overturn precedent. The best we might be able to hope for in the short term is a return to the pre 1973 status quo.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Europe has Christian and Catholic minority parties–why not start them here in the US?

The two party system is producing evil. 3d parties are the only answer.

You can be pro-life and liberal in many ways

You can be conservative and be anti death peanaly and anti unjust war.

You can be liberal or conservative and be against gay marriage.

If both of the TWO parties are getting it wrong on at least some of the moral issues and if there’s no way candidates can get elected in those parties then forming 3d parties that may agree with Republicans or Democrats on many issues–but not on some moral issues is the way to go!

Those parties could always vote with either the Democrats or the Republicans on many other issues.

If America stays wedded to the two-party system it will always make people choose between the lessor of two evils.

That’s not Catholic!

 

[mosher]

Since when did the National Guard become a major resource for foreign occupation ? and even IF that is the normal policy, IF we have sufficient troops why are they being rotated back in on a regular basis ? Your claim doesn’t hold water.

Again this is just a matter of your ignorance of the new way in which the American military is being managed. As I said, when I myself was raining to be an Officer of Marines in the late 1990’s we were being briefed on these modifications. It was all designed to make the whole of the US Military more mobile and more interdependent. This was one of the changes that was devised after the first Gulf War based on lessons we learned there about mobility, versatility and specialization. Of this some Guard units are more effective particularly in such units where their mission is directly related to infrastructure and containment. Whether you think my argument holds water or not is irrelevant it is just a fact about the way in which we manage our military now.

Iraqis voted for democratic rule, not for whether they wanted Americans to stay. There should be a referendum on whether they want the American occupation to continue. IF they want us to leave, then we need to pack up and go. The American press would have us believe the majority wants us out, and IF it this were not the case, I would think the President would be stressing that the Iraqis do want us there…

It is funny how that message doesn’t get out even thought the elected officials of Iraq keep stating over and over again that they want and need US involvement and even bring the vote to the floor in their government. The democratic process is working just fine we just need to give it time. Remember it took us until the 1780’s to get our act together. We cannot expect Iraq to move faster than we did. There are issues of thousands of years of tribal violence in that region. These problems will not go away in short order. So, it is incumbent upon us to leave an effectively trained Iraqi police and military force so that they can take over that role for themselves and not destabilize the region. If you think it is bad now you should wait to see how bad it would get if we leave too early.

Not every muslim wants to commit suicide for the cause. It’s only the fanatics who believe such nonsense. To assume that every prisoner was a fanatic willing to commit suicide and guilty without trial or investigation is typical Republican mentality that only the guilty are arrested.

The fact that many have been released already proves that this was not the case.

You are mischaracterizing my position. My position is not that only the guilty are arrested. I am saying that nobody was arrested. This has been a military action and not a criminal justice action. While many don’t understand the difference federal regulation makes a significant difference.

First of all in a military action there is no habeas corpus there is not Miranda rights and there are no unlawful detainment rules. Military actions are treated under a different section of the Constitution reflected in Federal Regulations and US Code and International Treaty. What I am saying is that the Enemy Combatants and Detainees do not have the same rights as normal prisoners as they are not treated under Penal Law. Those classifications are not just words used to obscure their status. Rather they are technical terms that categorize them into different official well defined groupings consistent with the controlling legislation. The fact that some have been released shows the generosity of this administration because under federal statute they can be held indefinitely. However, this administration has seen fit to release some and also to treat some as criminal cases. However, as the law stands if in a combat situation a person is perceived to be an enemy we have the right to detainee them until the end of hostilities at a location of our choosing. Some people may not like that but it is the law in both of the controlling US and International Codes

 

[mosher]

Europe has Christian and Catholic minority parties–why not start them here in the US?

The two party system is producing evil. 3d parties are the only answer.

You can be pro-life and liberal in many ways

You can be conservative and be anti death peanaly and anti unjust war.

You can be liberal or conservative and be against gay marriage.

If both of the TWO parties are getting it wrong on at least some of the moral issues and if there’s no way candidates can get elected in those parties then forming 3d parties that may agree with Republicans or Democrats on many issues–but not on some moral issues is the way to go!

Those parties could always vote with either the Democrats or the Republicans on many other issues.

If America stays wedded to the two-party system it will always make people choose between the lessor of two evils.

That’s not Catholic!

The Founding Fathers never intended a two party system. In fact they intended a no party system. However, as we see the natural inclination of our Republican form of Government was a two party system reflected in the election of John Adams. It is actually a hallmark of the success of our nation. If we had a large amount of dominant political parties such as they have in the United Kingdom or Israel we would not have the same consolidation of authority called for in our system of government. It is in fact that very system of government that gave birth to an almost necessity of a two party electorate.

However, as we see in the history of our nation one party is supplanted by another according to their relevance. However, it usually takes a significant issue to do this. Even the civil rights movement was not substantial enough to spawn a new party. However, as we become more polarized we may see an eventual end to one of our current dominant parties. I would argue that the DNC is on the verge of collapse and another party will take its place. If you look at the shift in the DNC over the last 80 years you will see that it is a much more liberal (in the American sense of the word) than it was even 20 years ago. This is the same for the GOP as is evidenced by the current president who conservatives consider very left of center.

Most conservatives would consider the positions of Rush Limbaugh/Ronald Reagan as the center line of the conservative movement. While this idea is repugnant to liberals it is what it is. Persons like Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter and Mike Savage are right of Limbaugh and people like McCain, the Bush family, and Schwarzenegger are left of Limbaugh. I think liberals would make a similar qualification with people falling left and right of Bill Clinton; him being the center of that movement. The point is that conservatives are moving more right in reaction against the current president and liberals are moving more left for the same reason. It will only be a matter of time until one or the other reaches a breaking point. It is just my opinion that the DNC is closer to the cliff than the GOP mostly as a result of Libertarian Ethics (the lack of ethics) infecting it.

 

[mary_bobo]

Again this is just a matter of your ignorance of the new way in which the American military is being managed. As I said, when I myself was raining to be an Officer of Marines in the late 1990’s we were being briefed on these modifications. It was all designed to make the whole of the US Military more mobile and more interdependent. This was one of the changes that was devised after the first Gulf War based on lessons we learned there about mobility, versatility and specialization. Of this some Guard units are more effective particularly in such units where their mission is directly related to infrastructure and containment. Whether you think my argument holds water or not is irrelevant it is just a fact about the way in which we manage our military now.

It is funny how that message doesn’t get out even thought the elected officials of Iraq keep stating over and over again that they want and need US involvement and even bring the vote to the floor in their government. The democratic process is working just fine we just need to give it time. Remember it took us until the 1780’s to get our act together. We cannot expect Iraq to move faster than we did. There are issues of thousands of years of tribal violence in that region. These problems will not go away in short order. So, it is incumbent upon us to leave an effectively trained Iraqi police and military force so that they can take over that role for themselves and not destabilize the region. If you think it is bad now you should wait to see how bad it would get if we leave too early.

You are mischaracterizing my position. My position is not that only the guilty are arrested. I am saying that nobody was arrested. This has been a military action and not a criminal justice action. While many don’t understand the difference federal regulation makes a significant difference.

First of all in a military action there is no habeas corpus there is not Miranda rights and there are no unlawful detainment rules. Military actions are treated under a different section of the Constitution reflected in Federal Regulations and US Code and International Treaty. What I am saying is that the Enemy Combatants and Detainees do not have the same rights as normal prisoners as they are not treated under Penal Law. Those classifications are not just words used to obscure their status. Rather they are technical terms that categorize them into different official well defined groupings consistent with the controlling legislation. The fact that some have been released shows the generosity of this administration because under federal statute they can be held indefinitely. However, this administration has seen fit to release some and also to treat some as criminal cases. However, as the law stands if in a combat situation a person is perceived to be an enemy we have the right to detainee them until the end of hostilities at a location of our choosing. Some people may not like that but it is the law in both of the controlling US and International Codes

Very enlightening post. Thanks so much.

 

[boppaid]

Name calling does nothing to advance your opinions. I am sure you can find better ways to express yourself.

I didn’t see it as namecalling, but rather using an adjective to describe a person, place or thing. And, imo, the adjective fit.

 

[boppaid]

Sorry for serial posting.

I would say that in this war the killing of non-combatants is minimal.

You know, when an Iraqi soldier dies, it’s not only his life that is destroyed, but that of his wife, children, mother, father, aunts, uncles, etc. Add those numbers to the figure, and you’ll see the greater picture of the destruction of this war that the majority of this country did not want.

 

[boppaid]

You know what i find disgusting? That Clinton gets impecahed for lying about an affair, yet when Bush lies and kills thousands, nothing happens. That alone shows how bad our country has gotten in the last 6 years.

I know. The guy lied about oral sex. Oooooh. This guy lied about the reasons we needed to go to war. No impeachment.

 

[boppaid]

Sorry again to serial post! But I just saw this.

Nydas, please quit saying that President Clinton lied about sex. He lied to a grand jury and around here that is considered a crime.
At least get your facts straight before you make accusations you cannot back up. Have a good day.

He did lie to a Grand Jury…about sex. Yes, a crime. But to lie to the country and falsely try to garnish support for murdering thousands in another country with these lies, is (at least imho) a great moral crime.

 

[mary_bobo]

Sorry again to serial post! But I just saw this.

He did lie to a Grand Jury…about sex. Yes, a crime. But to lie to the country and falsely try to garnish support for murdering thousands in another country with these lies, is (at least imho) a great moral crime.

If your statement is true, many others lied also, i.e. John Kerry, Bill Clinton and on and on. It is widely believed that UK intelligence and Israeli intelligence is the best in the world and they agreed with the flawed US intelligence. You are certainly welcome to your opinion that Bush lied, but me thinks your bias against the GOP precedes your rational thought.

 

[boppaid]

If your statement is true, many others lied also, i.e. John Kerry, Bill Clinton and on and on. It is widely believed that UK intelligence and Israeli intelligence is the best in the world and they agreed with the flawed US intelligence. You are certainly welcome to your opinion that Bush lied, but me thinks your bias against the GOP precedes your rational thought.

Actually, I was a Republican until Bush’s lies. So, no, that’s not what has clouded my judgemnt.

 

[mary_bobo]

Actually, I was a Republican until Bush’s lies. So, no, that’s not what has clouded my judgemnt.

What about the others who said the same thing. They they also lie i.e. Tony Blair, numerous dems, Israeli intell.

 

[wcknight]

Again this is just a matter of your ignorance of the new way in which the American military is being managed. As I said, when I myself was raining to be an Officer of Marines in the late 1990’s we were being briefed on these modifications. It was all designed to make the whole of the US Military more mobile and more interdependent. This was one of the changes that was devised after the first Gulf War based on lessons we learned there about mobility, versatility and specialization. Of this some Guard units are more effective particularly in such units where their mission is directly related to infrastructure and containment. Whether you think my argument holds water or not is irrelevant it is just a fact about the way in which we manage our military now.

Well there you go again, for one it’s awfully condenscening to keep pointing out what you think about someone elses intelligence, not to mention that it does nothing to prove your point. I admit I’m not up on military matters and I’m not an avid student of history. However I too lived through the Vietnam war era and I have a college education, and have some level of education above your average Jay Walking all star. All of that is irrelavant.

Regardless of what policies the military has adopted with the guard, you have still NOT addressed the main point, and that is, that the miltary has in fact rotated troops back through several times. IF we had adequate numbers of troops that would NOT have been necessary.

Thanks for YOUR interpretation of the enemy combatants excuse and I do call it an excuse. That is far better than anything the administration has put forward. I disagree with the notion that the military has a right to suspend human rights. That is patently unamerican.

 

[mosher]

You know, when an Iraqi soldier dies, it’s not only his life that is destroyed, but that of his wife, children, mother, father, aunts, uncles, etc. Add those numbers to the figure, and you’ll see the greater picture of the destruction of this war that the majority of this country did not want.

Yes that is the nature of war. But in a Republic it is not the will of the people who determine what is in the best interest of the country but rather it is the judgment of the elected officials. As I mentioned earlier a majority of the people did not want the Revolutionary War but that did not stop it then.

He did lie to a Grand Jury…about sex. Yes, a crime. But to lie to the country and falsely try to garnish support for murdering thousands in another country with these lies, is (at least imho) a great moral crime.

To lie is to intentionally mislead. There is yet to be any evidence that the President lied. Rather there is evidence that the intelligence that he based his judgment on was faulty. That is very different than a lie.

Well there you go again, for one it’s awfully condenscening to keep pointing out what you think about someone elses intelligence, not to mention that it does nothing to prove your point. I admit I’m not up on military matters and I’m not an avid student of history. However I too lived through the Vietnam war era and I have a college education, and have some level of education above your average Jay Walking all star. All of that is irrelavant.

Ignorance has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with knowledge. On this point as has been established (at least in part) you don’t have all the information. This is not condescension but rather commentary on knowledge level of a subject. If you took it as a personal attack on your intelligence I apologize as that is not my intention.

Regardless of what policies the military has adopted with the guard, you have still NOT addressed the main point, and that is, that the miltary has in fact rotated troops back through several times. IF we had adequate numbers of troops that would NOT have been necessary.

I think I may not have answered this because I don’t understand why it is even a question. This practice seems very normal to based on my understanding of the way the military is managed now as opposed to how it was done in the past. Think of it as being modeled after the submarine (fast attack) rotation - a third of a year rotation underway. This rotation is designed to help guard against fatigue. I think it is a great model for managing troop rotation in a hot zone.

Thanks for YOUR interpretation of the enemy combatants excuse and I do call it an excuse. That is far better than anything the administration has put forward. I disagree with the notion that the military has a right to suspend human rights. That is patently unamerican.

What you are calling human rights are not human rights. Rather they are rights that the US has chosen to give criminals. There is not international standard that can justify an argument that they are being deprived of basic human rights but rather there are plenty of international sources (such as the Conventions and other International Law that we are bound to by treaty) that demonstrate that we are providing them more “rights” than are necessary.

Remember, such things as Habeas Corpus are not human rights. Even in times of necessity they can be suspended by the President by Executive Order as was done, most notably, by Roosevelt and Lincoln.

 

[Leeta]

Vote Republican!
The Democrat party officially works to keep abortion legal for the whole nine months of pregnancy. Now it is also officially working to thwart marriage protection amendments on the state as well as federal level.
What is the point of voting for a pro-life Democrat when he will have to vote party line if he gets to the Senate? He won’t be able to vote for a pro-life judge.

Third party? They don’t care one bit if you vote third party. You are not there as far as they’re concerned and are of no interest. They don’t look at the third party votes.

We had a great Senator in Santorum, but the decadent Pennsylvanians voted him out! Good grief, he is a Catholic homeschooling father! They don’t come any better!

He was the ideal pro-life senator.

The news media never mentions anything positive about stopping or limiting abortion. The only time it is mentioned if there is a victory for abortion supporters. Why are you so naive as to believe that the news media reports pro-life developments? And they certainly wouldn’t because it would get Pres. Bush or the Republicans some positive coverage. Our news media is controlled by the enemy. Like in the Communist countries, one has to read between the lines and one must go to Lifesite news, etc.

There have been more Americans killed, 47 million, by surgical abortions than ALL the war casalties of ALL wars America has fought, including Iraq.

By the way, Nyabs, you need to join the Marines and you won’t have so much time on your hands. My son is LCpl serving in Iraq. He is busy crewing a CASEVAC helicopter and keeping them repaired and running. He picks up wounded and does transporting of troops, etc. He said the activity goes up and down and the activity has been about the same since he arrived in August.
He voted Republican by the way.
I voted Republican, too.
He and his fellow Marines couldn’t understand all the to do about the treatment of prisoners. He said they always have to follow the Geneva Convention, so what more is there to do? They have to be very careful about initiating fire. He mans a 50 caliber machine gun on the copter and he hasn’t had to shoot it once there except in practice.

And speaking of Vietnam a Vietnamese student, a devout Catholic, once asked me why we Americans deserted his country in their hour of need. What would you say nyabs? I couldn’t say anything because I had been a peace-nik and joined in high school anti-Vietnam protests. His sisters were still there and being starved to death because they persisted in their Catholic faith and refused to renounce Jesus Christ.
Then he proceeded to chide me, a Catholic and married 3 years at the time, for perhaps not being open to new life , since I didn’t yet have any children. (And he was right, I wasn’t open to having children then.)

Read about the Nazi doctors, especially Dr. Rascher’s ‘experiments’ at Dachau. Dr. Rascher wrote to Himmler asking permission to do grisly experiments on the prisoners, since they were going to die anyway, why should this good ‘research material’ go to waste?
Human embryos are helpless tiny human babies and not research material. You were once an embryo, but you were never a sperm. Embryo babies need to be inside their mother because good mothers protect their babies with their whole person. A mother was designed by God to protect her baby and keep it safe, warm and snug.

 

[nydas]

Vote Republican!
The Democrat party officially works to keep abortion legal for the whole nine months of pregnancy. Now it is also officially working to thwart marriage protection amendments on the state as well as federal level.

And the Republicans are using countless scare tactics to strip us of our freedoms. They even went as far as to claim that a win for Democrats is a win for terrorism.

Third party? They don’t care one bit if you vote third party. You are not there as far as they’re concerned and are of no interest. They don’t look at the third party votes.

Actually, in Vermont a socialist was elected to the senate. He ran as an Independent against a rich opponent (Democrats gave up on nominating someone), and SLAUGHTERED him in the race. Sure there wasn’t a democrat, but that tells you something about the republicans right there.

The news media never mentions anything positive about stopping or limiting abortion. The only time it is mentioned if there is a victory for abortion supporters. Why are you so naive as to believe that the news media reports pro-life developments? And they certainly wouldn’t because it would get Pres. Bush or the Republicans some positive coverage. Our news media is controlled by the enemy. Like in the Communist countries, one has to read between the lines and one must go to Lifesite news, etc.

O please. Yes the news is biased (Fox is so right its not even funny, just like CNN is left) but to say its like the communist country is extreme. If you want unbiased news then check out www.BBC.co.uk/news

By the way, Nyabs, you need to join the Marines and you won’t have so much time on your hands. My son is LCpl serving in Iraq. He is busy crewing a CASEVAC helicopter and keeping them repaired and running. He picks up wounded and does transporting of troops, etc. He said the activity goes up and down and the activity has been about the same since he arrived in August.

Congratulations on having a son in the Marines, but no i don’t need to join the Marines. If it wasn’t for me your son wouldn’t have any water to drink! So what if i have time to chat on the Internet. I still get my job done.

He voted Republican by the way.
I voted Republican, too.

Ok? I never said all soldiers feel like i do. Actually its sad, im one of the few soldiers i know that is really into politics. Most are as ignorant as the average American citizen.

He and his fellow Marines couldn’t understand all the to do about the treatment of prisoners. He said they always have to follow the Geneva Convention, so what more is there to do? They have to be very careful about initiating fire. He mans a 50 caliber machine gun on the copter and he hasn’t had to shoot it once there except in practice.

Your right. We are required to follow the Geneva Convention and we have to be careful about returning fire. Your point is? There are Iraqis being tortured. There are Iraqis being arrested with no charge and being sent to secret prisons. Of course there not going to let soldiers like me and your son know about it.

And speaking of Vietnam a Vietnamese student, a devout Catholic, once asked me why we Americans deserted his country in their hour of need. What would you say nyabs? I couldn’t say anything because I had been a peace-nik and joined in high school anti-Vietnam protests. His sisters were still there and being starved to death because they persisted in their Catholic faith and refused to renounce Jesus Christ.
Then he proceeded to chide me, a Catholic and married 3 years at the time, for perhaps not being open to new life , since I didn’t yet have any children. (And he was right, I wasn’t open to having children then.)

There thing is, most of the Iraqis DON’T want us there. And we DON’T want to be here. We are not doing anything to help these people. Democracy is something that must be earned. It can not be forced on someone. We have destroyed this country and thousands of lifes.

Human embryos are helpless tiny human babies and not research material. You were once an embryo, but you were never a sperm. Embryo babies need to be inside their mother because good mothers protect their babies with their whole person. A mother was designed by God to protect her baby and keep it safe, warm and snug.

This topic isn’t about abortion, so i don’t want to turn this into an abortion debate. I don’t think abortion is murder, you do. I cant change your mind and you cant change mine.