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OraLabora
Guest
I make no pretense of saying I know what I am talking about. After all I’m not eligible to vote in the USA. I’m just wondering why, after 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush Sr. and 8 years of Bush Jr., that is 20 years of Republican presidents vs. 12 of Democrat presidents, the situation seems absolutely the same wrt abortion.
Because here in Canada, it’s not unusual for a party to pander to the voter demographic they’re trying to win over by purporting to be for or against an issue, then doing absolutely nothing about it once in power unless a particularly powerful lobby keeps pushing for it.
Methinks politicians are the same everywhere.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that the person in the White House has complete control over all the issues.
There is also a House and a Supreme court to worry with as well.
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Saint_Castulus
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HHS?
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TimothyH
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It’s not that easy. It’s not as easy as Republican = good, Democrat = bad.
Saxby Chambliss (R) and Jonny Isakson (R), both of the US Senators from my state of Georgia say that they are against abortion but qualify their opposition with the predictable exceptions of rape, incest, health of the mother, etc. Rep Phil Gingrey (R) is my representative. He is a Medical Doctor, an obstetrician by trade who has delivered babies. Gingrey brings up the fact that he is an obstetrician in his claim to support “Pro-family values” whenever he has the chance but claims the same notable exceptions for allowing unborn children to be butchered.
Chambliss is definitely for the death penalty and although all three are against the HHS mandate to force the Church to provide contraception, all three are not against contraception itself.
I’ve written all three on several issues and have recieved letters back every time. All three are far from the Catholic view on the five non-negotiable life issues. It just isn’t black and white.
-Tim-
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TimothyH
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HHS = Department of Health and Human Services.
The HHS mandate forces employers to provide contraception to their employees or pay a fine of $100/day/employee.
-Tim-
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Saint_Castulus
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how can we expect any politician to fully promote Christian beliefs? I am deeply saddened that it seems most if not all politicians are corrupt and if you add to that, that they represent so many that are not Catholic or to varying degrees not spiritual beings.Seems neither party is fully in line with our beliefs, so what? I choose the lesser of two evils and vote Republican
It is interesting that some Muslim nations do not see any problem with a Theocracy, is this what some of us are striving for, a Catholic nation?I am so disappointed with our government, I seek solace in my faith and realize I too am a sinner and try my best to live as Christ would have me
It is interesting that some Muslim nations do not see any problem with a Theocracy, is this what some of us are striving for, a Catholic nation?I am so disappointed with our government, I seek solace in my faith and realize I too am a sinner and try my best to live as Christ would have me
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anp1215
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It is completely beyond me how any Catholic, especially one who considers him/herself prolife (which should be all of them) can vote for Barack Obama. I thought his vote against the Born Alive Act would have been enough, but it wasn’t. Then I thought his assault on the Church and religious liberty would have been enough, but it wasn’t. He could outlaw Catholicism and some Catholics would still vote for him.
It’s disturbing.
It’s disturbing.
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TheRealJuliane
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Wow. I am a Catholic first, an American second, and I have no political party. I always let my Church guide me in my voting.
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TheRealJuliane
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This is true, unfortunately. But I don’t hear as many voices cheering for him as there used to be…even here. And outside of this forum, I have seen only a few BO 2012 stickers on cars, usually being driven by older white people (like older Baby Boomers). That’s not racist, just honest.
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TheRealJuliane
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Well, it’s kind of complicated. Since Roe v. Wade is the law of the land, the President cannot just overturn it. It is up to Congress to pass the laws, and the President can sign them or not. But more important, the President can appoint Supreme Court justices, as the lifetime appointees either die or retire. Some Presidents have gotten several appointments, some, just 1. And even that is no guarantee that the character of the bench will go the way the President wants it to. Some judges, once appointed, change their character and become either more liberal, or more conservative than before their appointment. But usually the justices are either progressives or originalists.
The individual states should have more power to change their own laws to discourage abortion, and many have done just that. Sometimes those laws have been challenged as being unconstitutional, maybe all of them have, I haven’t checked. But I think more and more are standing up to challenges. One quite powerful bill was passed in Texas, which requires a woman to have an ultrasound performed before an abortion (the doctor already does this) and she has to be offered the option to see the ultrasound and hear her baby’s heartbeat. This sent Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers into a frenzy! The law was challenged but found to be constitutional and has now gone into effect.
If Barack Obama is re-elected, he may have 2 more Supreme Court appointments to fill. Given his radical ideology, if he appointed 2 new SCOTUS justices, we would feel the effects for a long, long time.
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anp1215
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I don’t see very many either (but then I don’t get out much as I work one day a week and do virtual school). I wonder if it’s our area and there are more BO bumper stickers in more liberal parts of the country.
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GRATEFULONEjim
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This is exactly how I feel and why I started the thread. We, as Catholics, need to cast our vote based on how we live.** As Catholics we are called to live in a God is first in our lives mentality.**
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Ben_F
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Catholics that vote for Obama aren´t Catholics.God bless
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anp1215
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They are by virtue of their baptism. They may obstinately sin, or be very confused, but still Catholics.
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Donna_P
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By how we live and vote and protest and share that information. always with charity and first through prayers for them.
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rinnie
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Well first let me say this, She will learn more of her faith when she is ready to take it serious.
But lets get back to Obama. Here is what Father said.
If you vote for him simply because you believe in abortion the issues that go against your faith, that is indeed wrong.
But if you vote for him not because of the wrong he stands for but for what you agree with then it is okay. Not one is perfect in anyway. They both have some good ideas and some bad. But don’t get me started on that
See the Church can tell you what he stands for that goes against our faith. But we have free will. The Church cannot tell you who to vote for,
Same with the other People also, They tell the truth about both, not just Obama.
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rinnie
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This is not the teachings of the CHurch.
Now if they vote for Obama because he allows abortion, I agree. But tell me this what if both would allow abortion?
See what I am saying? How many say they are against it, and then throw in a few exceptions?
While I agree there is no reason for it, We must be careful in judging are brothers and sisters in the faith also.
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ThatOneGuy92
Guest
The tension found here is not new. We have the polar opposites of Mencius (lead the country as a virtuous, loving father) and Mencius (appear virtuous, but do what is necessary for the preservation of the State and power).
The fact is that no matter what a politician campaigns for, not all of it will actually come to pass. Politics involve a ridiculous amount of compromise, and in many cases the compromise is not virtuous in any way. But we don’t know all those compromises, because they go on behind closed doors.
Let people vote according their conscience and beliefs. That much should be obvious; any person is going to do so. And one would hope it would be formed primarily by their faith, etc. And then, let it be. If they are in the wrong, because they somehow indirectly supported evil, then may God have mercy on them. May God have mercy on us all, because I can assure you that every time we vote someone into power, there is some compromise that we are then indirectly complicit in. Because it isn’t as clear cut as we like to believe; it isn’t all black and white. Even in the Roman Empire, where the Emperor theoretically held supreme power, the Emperor was pulled and swayed (and therefore controlled) by persons. How much more, then, in a republic that holds public elections?
The fact is that no matter what a politician campaigns for, not all of it will actually come to pass. Politics involve a ridiculous amount of compromise, and in many cases the compromise is not virtuous in any way. But we don’t know all those compromises, because they go on behind closed doors.
Let people vote according their conscience and beliefs. That much should be obvious; any person is going to do so. And one would hope it would be formed primarily by their faith, etc. And then, let it be. If they are in the wrong, because they somehow indirectly supported evil, then may God have mercy on them. May God have mercy on us all, because I can assure you that every time we vote someone into power, there is some compromise that we are then indirectly complicit in. Because it isn’t as clear cut as we like to believe; it isn’t all black and white. Even in the Roman Empire, where the Emperor theoretically held supreme power, the Emperor was pulled and swayed (and therefore controlled) by persons. How much more, then, in a republic that holds public elections?
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