Voucher System & Catholic Schools

[Smber2c]

I don’t know all the politics of it, but New Orleans public schools couldn’t fit all the students so they have allowed for limited voucher use. The New Orleans Catholic School District is admitting a couple hundred kids until there are enough seats in the public schools again.

Interesting enough, paying the vouchers was actually much cheaper for the state (less that half the cost of educating them themselves, if I recal correctly). - Though as mentioned above, the scales aren’t completely equal as pubilc schools have to deal with many problems and challenges Catholic schools don’t.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t know all the politics of it, but New Orleans public schools couldn’t fit all the students so they have allowed for limited voucher use. The New Orleans Catholic School District is admitting a couple hundred kids until there are enough seats in the public schools again.

Interesting enough, paying the vouchers was actually much cheaper for the state (less that half the cost of educating them themselves, if I recal correctly). - Though as mentioned above, the scales aren’t completely equal as pubilc schools have to deal with many problems and challenges Catholic schools don’t.

Of course, one of the reasons that Catholic schools are much cheaper is because we pay our Catholic School teachers less. Something that I am not sure we should be proud of.

 

[trentonzero]

My wife and I have no children yet. But we intend to homeschool them if at all possible (sometimes that just not possible). Catholic school would be next on the list.

Definately support vouchers.

 

[Michaeljc4]

In other words, you are concerned that in public school, they would be taught a different religion–the religion of secularism.

…which is the only choice available. Catholic schools in this country began when public schools were requiring all students to read from a Protestant version of the Bible (the King James, I believe). Catholics found this unacceptable, and rightly so. In public schools we can teach about religion, we just can’t promote a specific religion. We can talk about religion, and religious beliefs, and the importance of faith in people’s lives, we just can’t champion one faith over the others.

 

[trentonzero]

Of course, one of the reasons that Catholic schools are much cheaper is because we pay our Catholic School teachers less. Something that I am not sure we should be proud of.

Yet, most teachers I know fight for jobs in private schools, despite lower pay in general.

Are they doing it out of the goodness of their heart, or is there some benefit to going to private schools?

(My wife has taught both at private Catholic schools and in public schools. The public schools paid more. She absolutely hated it. The Catholic school paid less. She loved it. And she wasn’t even a practicing Catholic while she worked there…)

 

[Smber2c]

Of course, one of the reasons that Catholic schools are much cheaper is because we pay our Catholic School teachers less. Something that I am not sure we should be proud of.

I agree that it would be great to pay Catholic teachers more, but I also took 4 economics classes in college and understand supply and demand.

The numbers of parents willing to pay $5,000 dollars a year for and elementary education is far far lower that the number willing to pay $2000 a year. So, often the schools have little choice but to pay teachers such a low wage unless they are willing the risk of going bankrupt in 5 years.

Maybe we should start pushing schools to “fair wage education” like I’ve seen at some local coffee bars pushing “fair wage coffee beans”.

 

[melensdad]

In public schools we can teach about religion, we just can’t promote a specific religion. We can talk about religion, and religious beliefs,** and the importance of faith in people’s lives, we just can’t champion one faith over the others.**

In many public school systems the entire concept of religion is taboo. It is simply avoided like the plague. But I know of no public school that can teach "the importance of faith . . ."
*

stinkcat_14:

Of course, one of the reasons that Catholic schools are much cheaper is because we pay our Catholic School teachers less. Something that I am not sure we should be proud of.

• In addition to the prior answers, there are other reasons like the fact that there is less ‘overhead cost’ at a Catholic school. Public schools typically have an army of administrators. There are also typically dozens of extra-curricular activities at public schools, each with a paid coach, band director, leader . . . while at a Catholic school there are far fewer choices and the coaches, etc are volunteers.

One thing we do in our area is we enroll the Catholic children into to the extra-curricular activities at the public school. So our kids get the full variety of public school amenities for after school programs. After all, we pay the taxes to the public system, so the logic is we can use the parts of the system we find appropriate. Also in our area, the Catholic schools have some activities that are more developed than the public system, “girls volleyball” starts at 5th grade in the Catholic system, but not in the Public system.

The public school teachers do get burned out. They probably deserve more pay. Many come to the Catholic schools and gladly accept lower pay and enjoy teaching again.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I agree that it would be great to pay Catholic teachers more, but I also took 4 economics classes in college and understand supply and demand.

The numbers of parents willing to pay $5,000 dollars a year for and elementary education is far far lower that the number willing to pay $2000 a year. So, often the schools have little choice but to pay teachers such a low wage unless they are willing the risk of going bankrupt in 5 years.

Maybe we should start pushing schools to “fair wage education” like I’ve seen at some local coffee bars pushing “fair wage coffee beans”.

As an economics professor myself, I can say that you are certainly right, if Catholic schools charge $5,000 per year fewer students will be enrolled. I don’t blame either the parents or the schools for this situation. The group that I think does need some of the blame is people like myself, people who have benefited financially from a high quality Catholic education. I think people like myself have an obligation to support the system that has made us so successful in our economy.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

No kids, but I like vouchers.

When/if I am blessed with children, my first choice would be to home school them. Failing that, I’d like to find a good, orthodox Catholic school – and I wouldn’t turn down vouchers.

I once heard someone compare school taxes to the postal service: we don’t pay for stamps unless we send something. I know that’s an incomplete analogy at best, but the sentiment is the same: if my children do not attend public schools, why should not their education be funded by the money I would be spending?

At the same time, I see the need for a state to provide a universal service for the betterment of its citizens, and that all citizens ought to contribute to it. Personally, I’d just as soon see that universal service be healthcare, but that’s just me.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Smber2c]

As an economics professor myself, I can say that you are certainly right, if Catholic schools charge $5,000 per year fewer students will be enrolled. I don’t blame either the parents or the schools for this situation. The group that I think does need some of the blame is people like myself, people who have benefited financially from a high quality Catholic education. I think people like myself have an obligation to support the system that has made us so successful in our economy.

Hey, though I got an English degree, I do love your subject. It was a great distraction from all that endless reading and writing.

I’m also a benifeciary of such an education and would have to agree that we should support our schools. The government in most states would never allow for concistent support of Catholic school systems through vouchers (well at least I sincerly doubt they would) but graduates can do alot.

My high school is great with their GAP campaign. They contact all of us with letters every year and get little fish like me to send 30 buck, while the doctors and lawers get hit up for my monthly salary. It really does keep tuition down.

Still salaries aren’t where the savings go. Instead it goes to the students. The school is beautiful. The labs lack nothing. The sports teams are highly funded and all are very competitive.

It’s a great place, but most teachers have to supplement their income by working odd jobs like the school book store, alumni affairs, or take a bonus for coaching.

 

[melensdad]

I think people like myself have an obligation to support the system that has made us so successful in our economy.

My daughter no longer goes to the school at our parish, but I still donate to the school support fund. I agree, a strong Catholic school is a responsibility. I also think it makes the parish stronger

BTW, my daughter is still in Catholic school, but our school only offers elementary grades, so we enrolled her in another parish school that offers Jr High grades.

 

[Michaeljc4]

In many public school systems the entire concept of religion is taboo. It is simply avoided like the plague. But I know of no public school that can teach “the importance of faith . . .”

And in many more, it’s not. We certainly can and do teach about the power and importance of religious faith, at least where I am (a public school in Massachusetts). What we *can’t *do is promote one faith over another.

 

[boppaid]

Yet, most teachers I know fight for jobs in private schools, despite lower pay in general.

Are they doing it out of the goodness of their heart, or is there some benefit to going to private schools?

Must be a regional thing. Around here, most teachers FIGHT for the public school jobs. Money is much better, benefits too. Almost all the teacher ed students I went to school with said “Catholic school as a last resort!” I found that sad. I wouldn’t mind teaching at a Catholic school at all. It’d be nice. But I have a husband to help “bring home the bacon”. If I was supporting a family on my own, or a single parent, I don’t think I’d be able to.

 

[melensdad]

And in many more, it’s not. We certainly can and do teach about the power and importance of religious faith, at least where I am (a public school in Massachusetts). What we *can’t *do is promote one faith over another.

In the school system my wife teaches in it cannot be mentioned. In fact my wife teaches a Humanities honors level course and when she discusses “Jews” during WWII she must consider them a nationality and not a religion.

 

[Michaeljc4]

May I ask, Melensdad, what school district that is, and where? The laws are quite clear on this, so if your wife wished to push it, she’d be on very safe legal ground. Freedom of religion, and the establishment clause, do not mean freedom from religion. This principal is well established in American jurisprudence.

Many schools around the nation are beginning to add a “Bible as Literature” course, as well as placing a greater emphasis on world religions. It’s is all completely legal, and a very good idea, IMHOP.

 

[JimG]

…which is the only choice available. Catholic schools in this country began when public schools were requiring all students to read from a Protestant version of the Bible (the King James, I believe). Catholics found this unacceptable, and rightly so. In public schools we can teach about religion, we just can’t promote a specific religion. We can talk about religion, and religious beliefs, and the importance of faith in people’s lives, we just can’t champion one faith over the others.

Exactly. Catholics started their own schools because the public schools of the time were essentially protestant schools. They are no longer protestant schools but secularist schools. I’m not sure that’s an improvement.

If the government wants to support education, why not support the student, not the school. As it is government essentially supports a monopoly system for the secular schools at the expense of all others.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Agreed…sort of. When the government did support schools with what was believed to be a “general” sort of Christianity, Catholics got out (understandably so) because there is no such thing as a generic religion. Religion is very specific.

If you are comfortable with public money going to religous schools, you need to recognize that the money would go to *all *religious schools, not just Catholic, or even Christian, schools. Would you be happy with your tax dollars going to fund an Islamic madrasa in Detroit? What about a school run by the Nation of Islam? Who is going to decide if the Boston Church of Christ is a cult and not a religion, and therefore can’t recieve government funding? Do you think Evangelical Christians are going to pay for kids to attend a Mormon school? Can government funded Hindu schools exclude Muslims? Can Pentacostal schools exclude Catholics? Can government funded Catholic schools exclude the children of gay parents because of the Church’s teachings on homosexuality?

It gets sticky, fast. We’ve seen the problems that can crop up with government funding for relgious based charities. It would be even more difficult with schools. I’m not saying “Don’t do it!” I am saying it’s not simple.

I await Vern to descend upon me like thunder.

 

[Brendan]

Just curious, what do you do, did you do, will you do with your children regarding school?

We homeschool. That isn’t one of the options

 

[JimG]

If you are comfortable with public money going to religous schools, you need to recognize that the money would go to *all *religious schools, not just Catholic, or even Christian, schools. Would you be happy with your tax dollars going to fund an Islamic madrasa in Detroit? What about a school run by the Nation of Islam? Who is going to decide if the Boston Church of Christ is a cult and not a religion, and therefore can’t recieve government funding? Do you think Evangelical Christians are going to pay for kids to attend a Mormon school? Can government funded Hindu schools exclude Muslims? Can Pentacostal schools exclude Catholics? Can government funded Catholic schools exclude the children of gay parents because of the Church’s teachings on homosexuality?

Hmm, of course, public money is just everybody’s tax money. Right now Catholics, (and Muslims and Pentecostals, etc) support secular schoos through their taxes, and those schools may teach things not in accord with their particular religious beliefs, so I can see a conflict in any case.

Perhaps it’s a good argument for getting government out of education entirely.

 

[Cobbfmly]

As a parent of a disabled child that was kicked out of a Catholic school for behaviors she need the support of an aide for. Neither the school, the diocese or us had the funds to pay an aide.

I have yet to see a voucher program that provided enough extra funds for children with all but the mildest disabilities. As a result, there is effectively no vouchers for disabled children.

I support the concept of vouchers, but will not support a plan that I am not confident makes vouchers truly available to ALL students.