Vows

[Bookcat]

I would also note that some info out there on vows is out of date.

Here are the particular Canons:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4E.HTM

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks for the link.

This stood out for me;

C

an. 1197 The person who makes a private vow can commute the work promised by the vow into a better or equal good; however, one who has the power of dispensing according to the norm of ⇒ can. 1196 can commute it into a lesser good.

In the case of the OP, the one who has the power to dispense the vow, is the person who made the vow in the first place, being this wasn’t part of a religious order where a superior would be required.

Well, at least, that’s the way I would understand it.

Jim

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks for the link.

This stood out for me;

C

In the case of the OP, the one who has the power to dispense the vow, is the person who made the vow in the first place, being this wasn’t part of a religious order where a superior would be required.

Well, at least, that’s the way I would understand it.

Jim

I understand how you arrived at that but no they have the power to “commute” not dispense.

I make a private vow to go on Pilgrimage to Fatima.

I can commute it to a Pilgrimage to Lourdes…or say the Holy Land.

But I myself cannot dispense the vow.

the dispensing part of that line is about the person with the authority of commuting it to a lesser good*…such is not in my power either but those who have the authority to dispense can commute it to a lesser good.

 

[TiggerS]

Can. 1196 In addition to the Roman Pontiff, the following can dispense from private vows for a just cause provided that a dispensation does not injure a right acquired by others:
1/ the local ordinary and the pastor with regard to all their subjects and even travelers;
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4E.HTM

I wonder what “and even travelers” actually means? Would it include a person who normally attends Confession and/or spiritual direction outside of their own parish? Or even a person who for personal reasons does not wish to approach their own pastor - could they speak with a priest outside their own parish to request a dispensation?

Can. 1192 §1. A vow is public if a legitimate superior accepts it in the name of the Church; otherwise, it is private.
§2. A vow is solemn if the Church has recognized it as such; otherwise, it is simple.

I think that the word “private” in private vows is a distinguishing adjective in Canon Law, rather than any sort of necessity to keep private vows private - although possibly many do, but this is a matter of personal choice only and how one chooses to go about making private vows. Private vows, with the agreement of the celebrant, can be made during Mass.

 

[Bookcat]

I think that the word “private” in private vows is a distinguishing adjective in Canon Law, rather than any sort of necessity to keep private vows private - although possibly many do, but this is a matter of personal choice only and how one chooses to go about making private vows. Private vows, with the agreement of the celebrant, can be made during Mass.

Yes…correct.

 

[TiggerS]

Yes…correct.

:thumbsup:Thank you- and too for sharing a wealth of knowledge.

Can. 1196 In addition to the Roman Pontiff, the following can dispense from private vows for a just cause provided that a dispensation does not injure a right acquired by others:
1/ the local ordinary and the pastor with regard to all their subjects and even travelers;
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4E.HTM
Quoting TiggerS: I wonder what “and even travelers” actually means? Would it include a person who normally attends Confession and/or spiritual direction outside of their own parish? Or even a person who for personal reasons does not wish to approach their own pastor - could they speak with a priest outside their own parish to request a dispensation?

Can you shed any light on the above? What does “even a traveler” actually mean?

 

[Bookcat]

Can you shed any light on the above? What does “even a traveler” actually mean?

That is one I am not completely sure on.

It refers to a “peregrini” (peregrinos) (traveler and I think related to the word for pilgrim but does not mean here only actual pilgrims) and if one looks at canon C. 100 it notes that such is one “if away from their domicile or quasi-domicile” (see C 102) but one will find other canons that seem to qualify such further… a canon lawyer could answer as to how things are applied here…

It may be that any Pastor can commute or dispense a private vow if you show up at his parish…(such had been my impression) but I am not completely certain on this… for example if one is in ones own diocese but visit another parish --are you then a peregrini?? not sure on this for domicile etc is the territory of a parish “or at least of a diocese”. For sure he can dispense peregrini -but there are questions in my mind such as when are you such in your own diocese etc etc? One would need to inquire further

But for certain ones ordinary (Bishop) or ones Pastor …(or another delegated by the ordinary)…can dispense or commute a private vow.

 

[TiggerS]

That is one I am not completely sure on.

It refers to a “peregrini” (peregrinos) and if one looks at canon C. 100 it notes that such is one “if away from their domicile or quasi-domicile” (see C 102) but one will find other canons that seem to qualify such further… a canon lawyer could answer as to how things are applied here…

It may be that any Pastor can commute or dispense a private vow if you show up at his parish…(such had been my impression) but I am not certain on this…one would need to inquire further.

But for certain ones ordinary (Bishop) or ones Pastor …(or another delegated by the ordinary)…can dispense or commute a private vow.

Thank you. I had heard that Canon Law can be a minefield I think that there is a canon lawyer posting at times into Phatmass Phorum. I will send off a PM.

 

[Bookcat]

Thank you. I had heard that Canon Law can be a minefield I think that there is a canon lawyer posting at times into Phatmass Phorum. I will send off a PM.

I added abit there while you were posting…but yes you will still need a Canon Lawyer (and one can call ones chancery office in ones diocese).

 

[TiggerS]

I added abit there while you were posting…but yes you will still need a Canon Lawyer (and one can call ones chancery office in ones diocese).

Thank you again for the info. Unfortunately I cannot recall the actual User Name of the Canon Lawyer on Phatmass and hence cannot send a PM - she has not posted to my knowledge in some time and PHatmass Search Facility is not working.

I would like to clarify the point as there seems to be increasing interest at times in private vows on Catholic Boards. I have located the CL’s email address from her blog (had problems finding that too! ) and will send off an email. When I get an answer, I will post it for general info sake.

 

[TiggerS]

Thank you again for the info. Unfortunately I cannot recall the actual User Name of the Canon Lawyer on Phatmass and hence cannot send a PM - she has not posted to my knowledge in some time and PHatmass Search Facility is not working.

I would like to clarify the point as there seems to be increasing interest at times in private vows on Catholic Boards. I have located the CL’s email address from her blog (had problems finding that too! ) and will send off an email. When I get an answer, I will post it for general info sake.

What follows is the email response I received from the Canon Lawyer:

both pastors and Bishops (pastors of a diocese) have a set jurisdiction — they have legitimate authority over a parish or a diocese. (A priest, as priest, does not have the same authority. He must be given such power or authority.) Ordinarily they don’t act with authority outside that area of jurisdiction and Episcopal rulings made within their dioceses do not bind outside that diocese. Thus, as a subject of a certain diocese and Bishop I would need to go to my own Bishop for various things. Conversely, the Bishop from a neighboring diocese would not be allowed to act in ways which transgressed the boundaries of my own Bishop, etc even if I traveled within his precincts for a time.

In the case of private vows, however, it is permissible for a Bishop to dispense these even for a visitor to his diocese. He does not need to be concerned about transgressing the jurisdiction of another Bishop in doing so. This could never be done for public vows (for instance, those of a diocesan hermit) made in the hands of another diocese’s Bishop and thus, “accepted in the name of the Church”. Meanwhile, confessors are not allowed to dispense private vows unless they have been given executive power to do so.

 

[TiggerS]

Re the canonical classification of “traveler” (peregrinus)

I contacted the canon lawyer again. This is the reply as she understands:

One is a traveler only when one moves temporarily outside the jurisdiction of their own Bishop. If one moves from parish to parish within a diocese they still fall under the authority of a given Bishop and he is therefore still their pastor.

…"…

If a person needs to know what is actually applying in their own individual circumstances, it is probably best to contact your diocesan offices for confirmation your position.