Vox video "Why paid sick leave is essential to beating coronavirus"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maxirad
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How is this propaganda?
In my 20s I remember being really sick for several days, coughing up green mucous, as I worked my grocery store cashier job. I had no choice if I wanted to eat.
A lot of people are still in that boat now.
but sick leave is limited even for those who have it – maybe to 12 days in a year. Many are applying for unemployment now, and it’s being allowed just because of the crisis.
 
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Do you for some reason think that people should spend months on end in a lockdown because of a pandemic and not be paid a single dime?

This is not a “left-wing” issue. It’s an issue of common human decency. Loads of people live paycheck-to-paycheck and even those who don’t have a limited amount of money in savings. Do you think people should starve?
 
Do you think people should go unpaid for months on end?
 
Maxirad said:
Um, is this video a piece of left-wing propaganda?
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Yes. This is left wing propaganda and should be rejected. It will either give too much power to the government and/or put too much cost into starting and running businesses.

All people have paid sick leave, it is just some fraction of the pay they recieve on the days that they are paid. Government and business is not the solution to poor personal finance management. People need to grow up and it was kind of expected in the US at one time. When you do not have some money around for emergencies then you learn a valuable lesson when there is an emergency.
 
EXdrinker said:
All people have paid sick leave, it is just some fraction of the pay they recieve on the days that they are paid.
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That is not what ‘sick leave’ means.
EXdrinker said:
Government and business is not the solution to poor personal finance management
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Poverty is not the same as ‘poor finance management’ and in any case people ought not to be condemned to suffering and starvation just because they didn’t save enough to satisfy your standards.
EXdrinker said:
When you do not have some money around for emergencies then you learn a valuable lesson when there is an emergency.
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You learn that some people think poverty is a sin.
 
EXdrinker said:
When you do not have some money around for emergencies then you learn a valuable lesson when there is an emergency.
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Exactly – businesses should have money around for the emergency of dealing with their sick employees. This is a cost of doing business. And to apply your earlier statement, it’s poor financial management if the company is not prepared to handle this.
 
JulianN said:
You are actually making a pretty good case for accepting left-wing propaganda, if indeed that is what this is.
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I think this a lot when interacting with some Americans. If healthcare, liveable minimum wages, basic social security, and colleges that don’t cripple you with mountains of debt are “left-wing” then I guess I’m a liberal? I dunno- where I come both left and right tend to agree more or less on healthcare and social security. People differ on a lot of issues, but I’ve never experienced anyone ranting about healthcare or sick leave except on here.
 
Even if you have enough savings for a rainy day, it will never be enough to afford the. stratospheric medical bills which is business as usual in the US.

I do have an emergency fund but I am convinced that this will be enough no matter how much I save.
 
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This

You said it so much better than I can.

I’m also bemused and I am American.

I guess it’s the rugged individualism, pull yourself up by the bootstraps kind of mentality.
 
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I think you had it right with the prosperity gospel mentality—there is an American notion that the rich deserve their wealth and the poor have brought poverty on themselves.

As if someone in a minimum-wage job could possibly save enough to survive a pandemic, or even a broken leg.
 
EXdrinker said:
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EXdrinker:
All people have paid sick leave, it is just some fraction of the pay they recieve on the days that they are paid.
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That is not what ‘sick leave’ means.
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It is what it means for people who are self employed? Why does it not mean it for the rest of people? If you take a job with no paid “sick leave” then you should plan on saving enough money for the time that you will get sick. This is not rocket science. Part of every paid day should go towards a fund that will cover you for those times that you get sick.
EXdrinker said:
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EXdrinker:
Government and business is not the solution to poor personal finance management
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Poverty is not the same as ‘poor finance management’ and in any case people ought not to be condemned to suffering and starvation just because they didn’t save enough to satisfy your standards.
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They will not be condemned to poverty, suffering, and starvation. They will feel a little pressure and stress, and those that are wise enough will learn a lesson and make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
EXdrinker said:
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EXdrinker:
When you do not have some money around for emergencies then you learn a valuable lesson when there is an emergency.
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You learn that some people think poverty is a sin.
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Who is talking about poverty? We are talking about people who have jobs that live pay check to pay check, some making well above the poverty line and even much more than average.
 
EXdrinker said:
Who is talking about poverty? We are talking about people who have jobs that live pay check to pay check, some making well above the poverty line and even much more than average.
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We are also talking about people who have jobs that make below the poverty line, or simply not enough to have left over to save.
 
EXdrinker said:
They will not be condemned to poverty, suffering, and starvation. They will feel a little pressure and stress, and those that are wise enough will learn a lesson and make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
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How do you know this? For many people, this kind of loss can push them over the tipping line into abject poverty.
 
Sarcelle said:
This mindset is very common in the US.
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I notice there is also a certain, often intense mistrust of the state. Some Americans act like the state is out to get them.

I also posit that the extreme capitalism characterizing America’s economic practices plays a role. Money and profit are viewed as more important than people’s lives and happiness. Policies that result in reduced profit for the sake of providing something that benefits the community are derided as “evil”. This is a reflection of extreme individualism, which is all too common in the U.S.

I think that because of this individualism some fail to realize that not all governmental policies have to be of direct benefit to them. I come from an upper middle class background and am grateful for never having wanted for anything in my life, but I am acutely aware that not everyone is as privileged and so support social security for those who need it. Personally I believe that as a society we are only as happy/wealthy/ heathy as the saddest/poorest/sickest in our society, and so strive for the construction of a state where everyone can have a sort of minimum standard of living regardless of income level. That way, even if I am liable to losing all my savings (as I might in the current economic crisis) I can still have access to basic needs like healthcare and education.
 
JulianN said:
Exactly – businesses should have money around for the emergency of dealing with their sick employees. This is a cost of doing business. And to apply your earlier statement, it’s poor financial management if the company is not prepared to handle this.
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Companies are people! Why should your boss who may have just one employee and just be scraping by, have to provide you pay when you do not work? Save your own money and quit expecting a baby sitter to take care of you. How on Earth do you expect small buisinesses to start up? They do not just jump into being with millions of dollars to pay sick leave to people. They have an oppurtunity for someone to be employed and that person accepts that arrangement or not. Who wants their boss to be their babysitter? Wow, what a shallow culture socialistic ideas lead to.
 
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