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JulianN
Guest
We clearly have very different ideas about what constitutes a shallow culture.
Vox video "Why paid sick leave is essential to beating coronavirus"
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JulianN
Guest
This is almost a direct quote from Charles Dickens‘s A Christmas Carol, which would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
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Fauken
Guest
I guess sick pay, paid vacations, maternity/paternity leave, etc. should be abolished as well. After all, it’s being “responsible”. Why not health insurance too? How can we be so stupid as to think we’ll never get sick? Why should my boss have to pay for something so basic for myself?EXdrinker:
This is almost a direct quote from Charles Dickens‘a A Christmas Carol, which would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
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EXdrinker
Guest
You and your employer should be able to enter into whatever agreement that you come to terms on. Your employer should not have to pay for any of those things. If you want them or believe that you need them then search for an employer who will provide them for you.
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Fauken
Guest
Because my employer has zero incentive to make sure that I’m actually fit enough to do my job. I’m just a sack of meat, a replaceable cog in their grand, beautiful machine – or person, as you said. Their personhood should be protected above all else, but should I break my hand then, well, too bad. I should be able to plan for the plague of the century to sweep through humanity, but who can blame them for not having enough on hand to survive this kerfuffle?
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JulianN
Guest
You know, I’m not a socialist by any stretch … but your arguments are making it look pretty attractive.
Without a mandate, corporate “people” have zero reason to offer benefits—there’s a reason unions came to be.
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Sarcelle
Guest
This is more noticeable during gun control debates.
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Fauken
Guest
Fortunately one can accept the good things socialism promotes without compromising one’s Catholicity by becoming a socialist.
http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-x...nts/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html
Paragraph 22 is of particular note, though it’s too long to post here. It should also be noted that this denounces socialism, so socialism by no means gets a pass here – and it shouldn’t.
Emeraldlady
New member
You sound like one of those insular people who thinks there is only 2 ideals in civic government worldwide. What is happening in western countries to defeat the corona virus event is more in keeping with the principles of ‘solidarity’. Solidarity ideology is anti-socialism. Check it out.JulianN:
Companies are people! Why should your boss who may have just one employee and just be scraping by, have to provide you pay when you do not work? Save your own money and quit expecting a baby sitter to take care of you. How on Earth do you expect small buisinesses to start up? They do not just jump into being with millions of dollars to pay sick leave to people. They have an oppurtunity for someone to be employed and that person accepts that arrangement or not. Who wants their boss to be their babysitter? Wow, what a shallow culture socialistic ideas lead to.
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Pattylt
Guest
I certainly hope you pay your employee enough in wages that he/she is able to meet minimum requirements AND enough to save for all the contingencies of life.
What usually happens is that businesses strive to pay as low a wage as possible, not caring one whit if any needs are met. Some businesses recognize that paying decently and supplying benefits makes for much more productive and happy workers.
My first thought when I hear businesses grumbling about how they can’t fill positions or everyone quits all the time is…perhaps you should look at the wages and benefits of this hard to fill position? Some positions ARE hard to fill. I’m a retired Med Tech and there’s a severe shortage of us. Guess which hospitals have full staff? Those that pay higher and give better benefits rather than complaining about it being above averages! My hospital used to pay higher…then we became part of a health corporation and they froze our wages until averages caught up to us…we now have shortages all the time. The hospital in a nearby city does not!
What usually happens is that businesses strive to pay as low a wage as possible, not caring one whit if any needs are met. Some businesses recognize that paying decently and supplying benefits makes for much more productive and happy workers.
My first thought when I hear businesses grumbling about how they can’t fill positions or everyone quits all the time is…perhaps you should look at the wages and benefits of this hard to fill position? Some positions ARE hard to fill. I’m a retired Med Tech and there’s a severe shortage of us. Guess which hospitals have full staff? Those that pay higher and give better benefits rather than complaining about it being above averages! My hospital used to pay higher…then we became part of a health corporation and they froze our wages until averages caught up to us…we now have shortages all the time. The hospital in a nearby city does not!
blackforest
Well-known member
No. It’s called public health. A lack of paid sick leave incentivizes sick people to go to work, making more people sick. People need money to live.
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EXdrinker
Guest
And paid sick leave incentivizes people to stay home when they are not sick. A two edged sword. The responsible will not use their sick days until needed and the irresponsible will have them used up by the time they are needed often anyway.
Tell me how someone making $20/hour that has 10 paid sick days a year is better off than someone making $21/hour with no paid sick days. Cannot the person making $21/hour save a mere 5% of their pay and be better off, having both the money to cover some sick time if needed and, in the event of some other emergency, the money to cover that?
Paid sick days are reasons for someone to not work when they are healthy. Put the money in the pocket of the employee and let them be responsible for how it is managed. Send sick employees home when necessary. That is best for the business and the employee.
In the event of pandemics other arrangements will likely need to be made but should not be the reason to make policy for the rest of the time.
blackforest
Well-known member
I’m not sure you fully understand how employee benefits work. “Sick days” are actually flex days. Employees can choose to use them for illness or pad them onto their vacation time. The latter risks getting sick and losing pay, but that’s clearly not what’s going on in the Vox video.
Before the outbreak, I went to the counter to order a latte. There was a sign posted: “Sorry I can’t talk to you now. I have a sore throat.” I asked the speaking employee why she came to work at a food establishment while sick. “She needs the money,” was the response. I never ordered my latte - not worth the risk. Now that COVID-19 is in question, wouldn’t you like to know that your service workers are going to work healthy?
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EXdrinker
Guest
Paid sick days are not guarantees that people will only go to work when healthy. People still go to work sick because they do not want to waste those days being off of work when they are sick, they would rather take them for an extra vacation day as you pointed out.
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EXdrinker
Guest
People, we are all our own businesses. If you are “employed” with someone then your business is you selling your product, your labor, to your employer. YOU are the one responsible for your business of selling your labor. Go ahead and negotiate paid sick days with your customer if you want to but this insane idea that it should be written in law between you and your customer but not him and his seems quite odd to me. Maybe it is because I was self employed for so many years. I think many are just looking at this all wrong.
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EXdrinker
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People, we are all our own businesses. If you are “employed” with someone then your business is you selling your product, your labor, to your employer. YOU are the one responsible for your business of selling your labor. Go ahead and negotiate paid sick days with your customer if you want to but this insane idea that it should be written in law between you and your customer but not him and his seems quite odd to me. Maybe it is because I was self employed for so many years. I think we are just looking at this all wrong.
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27lw
Guest
$20 an hour? That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about $7.25 an hour, or $10 an hour.
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JulianN
Guest
I’m not sure which one of us you are addressing?
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Pattylt
Guest
I think that since so many businesses see the benefit of offering sick leave that you are more the odd one out. Perhaps you are wiser than the CEOs of so very many companies but I’d put my money on the odd they’re right and you’re not.
Yes, everyone should have an emergency fund but the fact is most not only do not, many of them can not. The money just isn’t there or the emergency already came and went and they haven’t recovered it yet. I’ve had back to back emergencies that I just barely covered the second one. It happens even with the best laid plans.
Where I worked, I accumulated flex days. I rarely had to use them for illness but was so thankful that I had them. When I retired, I had to paid out and taxes ate up so much of the money, I would have been much better just using them here and there.
Nothing is worse than employees that come in sick. Everyone gets it and then everyone is stressed in trying to cover for others…so, they come back too early staring the cycle all over again. People shouldn’t be on their death beds before they stay home and employers shouldn’t have to check the health of everyone to send the sick ones home!
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Emeraldlady
New member
exdrinker and those that think that any kind of emergency welfare are a sign of socialism.
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