F
Feanor
Guest
When is this to be released I am eager for this?
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P
Phemie
Guest
Don’t hold your breath. It’s probably going to be another 2 years. They are not going to change anything until EVERYTHING has been translated and accepted by Rome.
F
Feanor
Guest
Darn! This is taking forever!
That’s the efficiency of Rome for you!! Makes our Government look like light speed!
(YAWN!!) "Oh your eminence I need a break, I think it’s time for some vino and then maybe a nap. . . "
That’s the efficiency of Rome for you!! Makes our Government look like light speed!
(YAWN!!) "Oh your eminence I need a break, I think it’s time for some vino and then maybe a nap. . . "
P
Phemie
Guest
In this case, it’s not Rome. All the English speaking conferences have to accept each section (IIRC there are 11 sections) as it’s translated then submit it to Rome for approval. Recently, everyone but the US bishops approved a section. When the US rejected it, it had to go through another process and will have to be voted on again. It’s a long, drawn-out process.Darn! This is taking forever!
That’s the efficiency of Rome for you!! Makes our Government look like light speed!
(YAWN!!) "Oh your eminence I need a break, I think it’s time for some vino and then maybe a nap. . . "
P
PatrickJT914
Guest
Hi Feanor,When is this to be released I am eager for this?
May I ask why you are eager?
S
sancte_joseph
Guest
Who wouldn’t be eager!!!Hi Feanor,
May I ask why you are eager?
Better translations!!! YAY
I
Indyann
Guest
This may be a little of-topic, but I am curious. The following announcement has been published in the parish bulletin since just before Advent
Liturgical Change: Beginning on the first Sunday of Advent,
the people will start to stand a bit earlier than has been the
practice in the past. This will take place before the prayer over
the gifts. So before the priest says, “Pray brothers and sisters
that our sacrifice may be acceptable……” The priest will help
remind us all to do this by a gesture with his hands.
The reason for this change is first that we are asked to do this
by our bishops under the new instructions for the Roman
missal which came out a couple of years ago. The practical
reason for the change is that if we are all standing when the
priest asks for the people to pray, the prayer is not interrupted
by the action of standing. The prayer over the gifts begins with
the priest’s words “Pray brothers and sisters…”with the people
concluding the prayer with “may the Lord accept the sacrifice
at your hands…”, by doing this our actions and the words of
the prayer become one.
So has the parish been “wrong” before and now we’re getting it right, or is this part of the coming change to the Liturgy?
Liturgical Change: Beginning on the first Sunday of Advent,
the people will start to stand a bit earlier than has been the
practice in the past. This will take place before the prayer over
the gifts. So before the priest says, “Pray brothers and sisters
that our sacrifice may be acceptable……” The priest will help
remind us all to do this by a gesture with his hands.
The reason for this change is first that we are asked to do this
by our bishops under the new instructions for the Roman
missal which came out a couple of years ago. The practical
reason for the change is that if we are all standing when the
priest asks for the people to pray, the prayer is not interrupted
by the action of standing. The prayer over the gifts begins with
the priest’s words “Pray brothers and sisters…”with the people
concluding the prayer with “may the Lord accept the sacrifice
at your hands…”, by doing this our actions and the words of
the prayer become one.
So has the parish been “wrong” before and now we’re getting it right, or is this part of the coming change to the Liturgy?
F
Feanor
Guest
I am eager for this text as it more closely corresponds to the normative Latin text of the OF. The Spanish, French, Portuguese, and other languages are closer than the english translation is to the normative text.
I fully and enthusiastically support the vernacular and all authentic applications of the second Vatican Council but I strongly feel that a uniform translation of the normative text is the most appropriate direction.
The OF is the OF and the EF is the EF and we need to have the very best text possible.
I fully and enthusiastically support the vernacular and all authentic applications of the second Vatican Council but I strongly feel that a uniform translation of the normative text is the most appropriate direction.
The OF is the OF and the EF is the EF and we need to have the very best text possible.
P
Phemie
Guest
This is a change that came about with the 2002 edition of the GIRM. Not sure where you are but I thought most dioceses in the US had already made these changes; Canada, OTOH, is waiting for the translation of the Roman Missal to be complete to promulgate the “new” GIRM at the same time as the new Mass texts.So has the parish been “wrong” before and now we’re getting it right, or is this part of the coming change to the Liturgy?
B
benedictgal
Guest
Actually, this “change” was implemented when the English translation of the third typical edition of the GIRM took effect in 2002. So, with all due respect, your parish is six years behind the times.This may be a little of-topic, but I am curious. The following announcement has been published in the parish bulletin since just before Advent
Liturgical Change: Beginning on the first Sunday of Advent,
the people will start to stand a bit earlier than has been the
practice in the past. This will take place before the prayer over
the gifts. So before the priest says, “Pray brothers and sisters
that our sacrifice may be acceptable……” The priest will help
remind us all to do this by a gesture with his hands.
The reason for this change is first that we are asked to do this
by our bishops under the new instructions for the Roman
missal which came out a couple of years ago. The practical
reason for the change is that if we are all standing when the
priest asks for the people to pray, the prayer is not interrupted
by the action of standing. The prayer over the gifts begins with
the priest’s words “Pray brothers and sisters…”with the people
concluding the prayer with “may the Lord accept the sacrifice
at your hands…”, by doing this our actions and the words of
the prayer become one.
So has the parish been “wrong” before and now we’re getting it right, or is this part of the coming change to the Liturgy?
I, for one, am anxious to have the new translations ready for use. The language is much more beautiful and more sublime than what we have in place right now. Furthermore, the translations tend to be more faithful to the Latin original, thanks to Liturgiam Authenticam than paraphrases of the Latin texts.
L
LeroyCRHP
Guest
I was listening to a podcast on this today and said it would be 2010 for the US.
J
Joannm
Guest
It could be that soon, or it could be later. It all depends on if and when the final sections of the Missal are approved by ALL the English speaking countries of the world and then finally approved by the Vatican. The US bishops still have a few sections to vote on. Once all are totally approved then a date will be chosen for the Missal to go into effect. Even once the approval is given, it will take time for the publishers of liturgical books to make all the changes and print the books and for parishes to buy them. There will also have to be time for sufficient catechesis before the changes are to be put into effect or we might see the same mess that happened in the late 60’s and early 70’s when changes were introduced piece meal and each week we were following along at mass on mimeographed (remember those?) pages and no one knew what was going on or why.I was listening to a podcast on this today and said it would be 2010 for the US.
P
peregrinus_sg
Guest
Well, the US bishops seem to be a little slow on approving the texts. The Bishops Conference of England and Wales are A LOT faster:
So the UK Bishops will be done approving the texts this April, while the US Bishops will only be done in 2010? Since Rome will officially have all the texts before it from the middle of this year, who knows what will happen? I sincerely hope and pray that Rome will review the texts, and when the US Bishops are done in 2010, Rome will return the confirmed texts the day after and say “Enough of your tardiness, here implement this NOW.”
Extracted from their Liturgy Newsletter, Nov 2008 edition. (Emphasis added)At the November meeting of the Bishops’ Conference three Grey books texts were voted on and approved: Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children, Masses for Various Needs and Intentions, and Ritual Masses. This means that six of the twelve Grey books — the final text prepared for voting by ICEL — have been approved by the Bishops’ Conference. The ***remaining sections will be presented for voting at the Easter meeting ***of the Bishops’ Conference: Proper of Saints, Common of Saints, Votive Masses & Masses for the Dead, Antiphons, Introductory Documents and Appendices.
So the UK Bishops will be done approving the texts this April, while the US Bishops will only be done in 2010? Since Rome will officially have all the texts before it from the middle of this year, who knows what will happen? I sincerely hope and pray that Rome will review the texts, and when the US Bishops are done in 2010, Rome will return the confirmed texts the day after and say “Enough of your tardiness, here implement this NOW.”
P
Phemie
Guest
The books are only submitted to Rome once they have been approved by ALL the Bishops’ Conferences. If the US won’t be finished voting until 2010 we probably won’t see the finished product until 2011: Rome has to review and approve, books have to be printed, the people have to be catechized on the changes, etc.Well, the US bishops seem to be a little slow on approving the texts. The Bishops Conference of England and Wales are A LOT faster:
Extracted from their Liturgy Newsletter, Nov 2008 edition. (Emphasis added)
So the UK Bishops will be done approving the texts this April, while the US Bishops will only be done in 2010? Since Rome will officially have all the texts before it from the middle of this year, who knows what will happen? I sincerely hope and pray that Rome will review the texts, and when the US Bishops are done in 2010, Rome will return the confirmed texts the day after and say “Enough of your tardiness, here implement this NOW.”
P
peregrinus_sg
Guest
The Bishops Conferences act independently in this matter. The US Bishops submit each segment individually to Rome after they have approved it. For the UK Bishops, my recollection is that they will submit all the 12 segments of the Roman Missal together (minus the Ordo Missae) when their conference of Bishops have caonically approved the whole project (they now have 6 more to go). The Canadian Bishops seem to have the idea that they will approve the entire 12 segments of the Roman Missal at one shot. Some other smaller Bishops Conferences, such as mine, will be happy to take whatever has been done by others.
In the latest edition of the US Liturgy Newsletter, it was noted that publishers need 1 year to print the new books. We’ll have to see how long Rome takes to approve the texts, we have little idea how much uniformity of texts Rome desires among the rest of the Propers submitted by each Bishops Conference. Meanwhile catechesis on the changes can already begin, since the text of the Order of Mass has already been confirmed. So once, Rome’s confirmation is gotten, 1 year is what should be expected to the roll-out date of the new translation. As Rome is already following the status of the texts presently fairly closely, I hope the review and approval will not take as long as it did for the Order of Mass.
In the latest edition of the US Liturgy Newsletter, it was noted that publishers need 1 year to print the new books. We’ll have to see how long Rome takes to approve the texts, we have little idea how much uniformity of texts Rome desires among the rest of the Propers submitted by each Bishops Conference. Meanwhile catechesis on the changes can already begin, since the text of the Order of Mass has already been confirmed. So once, Rome’s confirmation is gotten, 1 year is what should be expected to the roll-out date of the new translation. As Rome is already following the status of the texts presently fairly closely, I hope the review and approval will not take as long as it did for the Order of Mass.
A
Asperges_Me
Guest
ncrcafe.org/node/2266
See above link for the latest information. For awhile, the implementation date given was 2011. Now, it seems to have slipped to 2012. I am so disappointed that this keeps slipping out. How many Catholics will not even live to hear the new translation?
It seem a shame that the new Order of Mass which has the recognitio of the Vatican cannot be implemented immediately. The rest of the missal we only hear once a year or less often. But the Mass is once a week. The wait until the whole missal is translated excuse seems pretty lame. Like a big delaying technique. Maybe like waiting for a new Holy Father, so the whole thing can be shelved.
See above link for the latest information. For awhile, the implementation date given was 2011. Now, it seems to have slipped to 2012. I am so disappointed that this keeps slipping out. How many Catholics will not even live to hear the new translation?
It seem a shame that the new Order of Mass which has the recognitio of the Vatican cannot be implemented immediately. The rest of the missal we only hear once a year or less often. But the Mass is once a week. The wait until the whole missal is translated excuse seems pretty lame. Like a big delaying technique. Maybe like waiting for a new Holy Father, so the whole thing can be shelved.
J
Joannm
Guest
Actually it is not lame. The texts have to be printed. Are you suggesting texts get printed piece meal? The Missal is one book with all the prayers in it. No publisher is going to only print part of the missal and no parish is going to want to buy a new book in a few years. Plus, there is a lot of catecheseis to do, musical texts have to be changed and lots of other things. We have to be patient. Part of the problem we have now is that things were done too quickly the first time.ncrcafe.org/node/2266
It seem a shame that the new Order of Mass which has the recognitio of the Vatican cannot be implemented immediately. The rest of the missal we only hear once a year or less often. But the Mass is once a week. The wait until the whole missal is translated excuse seems pretty lame. Like a big delaying technique. Maybe like waiting for a new Holy Father, so the whole thing can be shelved.
A
Aramis
Guest
The missal is seldom printed in one book; the editions used in celebration would be too heavy to hold otherwise, or printed too small to read from 4-5 feet.
The “typical” set:
The Sacramentary
The Pontifical
The Lectionary (which includes gospels in many editions)
The Book of the Gospels*
The Book of Blessings**
The “typical” set:
The Sacramentary
The Pontifical
The Lectionary (which includes gospels in many editions)
The Book of the Gospels*
The Book of Blessings**
- The Book of the Gospels is needed only if the lectionary doesn’t include them, but is properly used even when the lectionary does contain the gospels. The use of just the lectionary is an accommodation for a single unassisted celebrant.
** Some parts of the book of blessings are used in the mass.
P
Phemie
Guest
Not according to the Vatican:The missal is seldom printed in one book; the editions used in celebration would be too heavy to hold otherwise, or printed too small to read from 4-5 feet.
The “typical” set:
The Sacramentary
The Pontifical
The Lectionary (which includes gospels in many editions)
The Book of the Gospels*
The Book of Blessings**
- The Book of the Gospels is needed only if the lectionary doesn’t include them, but is properly used even when the lectionary does contain the gospels. The use of just the lectionary is an accommodation for a single unassisted celebrant.
** Some parts of the book of blessings are used in the mass.
From CDWDS Prot. n. 429/02/L
Code:
[Observations on the English-language Translation of the Roman Missal](http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/documents/observations.htm)A.The word “Sacramentary,” evidently chosen to distinguish this book containing the prayers of the Mass on the one hand, from the Lectionary, on the other, seems nevertheless to have had the adverse effect of furthering a mistaken conception of this “Sacramentary” as a new and somewhat autonomous liturgical book for the English-speaking world. The term “Sacramentary” is not characterized by a linear historical development, and the present book also contains antiphons and other elements that were not in the ancient or medieval books commonly designated sacramentaries at least in academic usage. Accordingly, the Congregation asks that from now on the book be referred to in English as the Roman Missal, and that the official use of the word Sacramentary be discontinued in reference to it.
A
Aramis
Guest
Phemie: you’re both misreading that bit from the vatican, and my intent.
The Roman Missal hasn’t been a single volume for centuries. All are integral parts of the Missal; The Pontifical and Sacramentary have undergone changes as to what is in them; it doesn’t invalidate that they do not contain the fullness of the canon.
The Lectionary and the Sacramentary are both hefty texts in the useful format. Adding the pontifical (which is almost as large as the Sacramentary) is another chunk. Further, many editions also separate out the Rituale Romanum.
ALL are part of the Roman Mass, and all are integral to the full cycle.
There is no reason the approved parts, when they correspond to the completed portions, can’t be published in sections, as was done in the 1970’s.
The Liturgical texts are not independent of the Mass, but are discrete sections of the totality of the Mass.
The Roman Missal hasn’t been a single volume for centuries. All are integral parts of the Missal; The Pontifical and Sacramentary have undergone changes as to what is in them; it doesn’t invalidate that they do not contain the fullness of the canon.
The Lectionary and the Sacramentary are both hefty texts in the useful format. Adding the pontifical (which is almost as large as the Sacramentary) is another chunk. Further, many editions also separate out the Rituale Romanum.
ALL are part of the Roman Mass, and all are integral to the full cycle.
There is no reason the approved parts, when they correspond to the completed portions, can’t be published in sections, as was done in the 1970’s.
The Liturgical texts are not independent of the Mass, but are discrete sections of the totality of the Mass.
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