Want men's opinion on women's modesty

[Little_Flower]

In “Dressing With Dignity”, author Colleen Hammond outlines the following suggestions for modest attire that will help men see women without lusting after them. In genreal cloths should veil the woman’s form and not draw attention to it.

1. Wear no pants, as it almost always causes men to lust.
2. Keep arms covered to the elbows.
3. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from
   undergarments are visible.
4. Skirts should be at least 2 inches below the knee, preferably 8
   inches below the knee.
5. No slits in skirts ever.
6. Nothing sheer.
7. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths
   below the pit of the throat.
8. No writing on chest of back of pants.
9. While she does not state this in her book, she does imply that
   women and men should never swim together, and that until the last few hundred years, it was never done except among the promiscuous. We women can discuss this ad infinitum, but we need to hear from you. Are slacks an occassion for sin for you? Is there such a thing as modest pants? She also advocates for skirts simply because they are more feminine and better reflect the way God made us, namely women and not men. Please let us hear from you guys!

 

[Mike_Dye]

In “Dressing With Dignity”, author Colleen Hammond outlines the following suggestions for modest attire that will help men see women without lusting after them. In genreal cloths should veil the woman’s form and not draw attention to it.

1. Wear no pants, as it almost always causes men to lust.
2. Keep arms covered to the elbows.
3. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from
   undergarments are visible.
4. Skirts should be at least 2 inches below the knee, preferably 8
   inches below the knee.
5. No slits in skirts ever.
6. Nothing sheer.
7. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths
   below the pit of the throat.
8. No writing on chest of back of pants.
9. While she does not state this in her book, she does imply that
   women and men should never swim together, and that until the last few hundred years, it was never done except among the promiscuous. We women can discuss this ad infinitum, but we need to hear from you. Are slacks an occassion for sin for you? Is there such a thing as modest pants? She also advocates for skirts simply because they are more feminine and better reflect the way God made us, namely women and not men. Please let us hear from you guys!

1Pants almost never cause me to lust unless they are super tight fitting or extremely short (hot pants etc.)
2Arms never cause me to lust covered or not,
3Tight fitting close may or may not.
4Probably so…Really short skirts will for sure turn a mans eye.
5Yeah to dress modestly slits are out.
6If sheer is see- through then probably not a good thing.
7Bare backs are not a real turn on for me and two fingers wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
8I cant imagine writing on clothes ever would maike any difference.
9My guess is that I have not shed any light whatsoever to this discourse You gals have for thousand of years know what turns a mans eye and what wont

 

[blackrobe]

First off, while I appreciate the sentiment, I believe that women [and men] should dress modestly primarily to reflect their dignity rather than to avoid being the object of lust. Satisfying the former intent will necessarily serve the latter. But since you ask . . .

1. Au contraire. In general I find any skirt or dress more “interesting” than any pants.
2. Huh?
3. Nothing is less evocative of lust than a VPL.
4. Meaningless in itself without other factors
5. See #2
6. See #4
7. Possibly relevant
8. Given the tackiness of this per se, I can’t imagine any text that would evoke lust
9. I know some manly Scots who are going to take exception to the skirt observations. I don’t see what is inherently feminine about a skirt.

Maybe I’m just old and out of it.

JSA

 

[Penguin12345]

I never really thought about pants being a problem for guys. Even though I’m a guy, I guess I just assumed men like more skin (as in shorts). But come to think of it, I think jeans really do grab more attention than shorts. I also like the point on swimming, I just don’t know how well that will fly! You want to know what I think of slacks? I don’t know. I’m not particularly attracted to them.

Funny coincidence, I just picked up “Story of a Soul” yesterday. Your name reminded me of it. Ok, I don’t know why I said that…

 

[Zahmir]

Deciding modesty boundaries is difficult for three reasons.

1.) Women don’t know men.

2.) Men don’t know themselves.

3.) There is no standard among men.

Basically, a man should be able to control his lustful thoughts no matter what the circumstance. (If you don’t believe me, try beating a six year sexual addiction with just your girlfriend’s help and advice from a priest.)

However, if a woman wants to portray herself as a whore, go for it. She won’t find love.

If a woman DOES want to find love, she’ll portray herself as a woman who loves her soul just as much as her body. This will be very attractive to the right men.

Then, there are varying degrees of modesty that attract different sorts of men, men being attracted to different things (big chest/small chest, big butt/small butt, wide hips/skinny, etc.).

I’m finding this whole “Modesty rules” thing to be getting quite old. Women can wear pants, I find them very nice. Skin-tight pants are not nice and will not attract the right men.

Good men… just avert your eyes and enjoy a real beauty when you see it. Go to confession often.

 

[KCT]

1. No writing on chest of back of pants.

I won’t comment on all the rules, but as a mom, I do agree with this one. I don’t let my daughter buy clothes w/ writing on the chest or rear. I think it immediately draws someone’s attention to those areas. —KCT

 

[buffalo]

A woman should keep her dignity and mystery. Dress with class. Most men will judge a woman by what she wears as to her values and self worth.

A question men ask is - would I want her to be the mother of my children? And would I want my daughter to be seen in public dressed like that?

 

[Nechasin]

I don’t think wearing normal pants is bad. Now skin tight pants would be a problem but so would a skin tight skirt. Of those rules, the only one I totally agree with is the writing. The whole purpose of the writing is to draw attention to those areas. Men have a hard enough time without that extra nudge.

I think buffulo had it right with the question: Would I want my daughter to dress like that?

 

[Transformer]

Basically, a man should be able to control his lustful thoughts no matter what the circumstance.

Absolutely he should; if a man looks at a woman with lust, regardless of her dress, he is very much responsible for what he did. However, that doesn’t excuse women from helping men to overcome this sin, any more than it excuses us from helping those who struggle with anger, or pride, or lying.

However, if a woman wants to portray herself as a whore, go for it. She won’t find love.

It’s true; she won’t. I would consider “go for it” a compassionate attitude about any sin or sinner. I know you didn’t really mean it like that, and you know we should advocate chastity, but we should especially advocate chastity on a personal level. If I see an immodestly dressed girl, my first thought cannot be “If she want’s to portray herself as a whore, then go for it. She won’t find love.” My response must be reminding myself that because she is made in the image of God and is loved by him just as much as I am, she deserves better. And I know that you know that, and I know that in certain cases a very blunt approace is exactly what a person needs as help to get out of immodesty. However, even here on the CA forums, we’ve got to speak with compassion.

If a woman DOES want to find love, she’ll portray herself as a woman who loves her soul just as much as her body. This will be very attractive to the right men.

Then, there are varying degrees of modesty that attract different sorts of men, men being attracted to different things (big chest/small chest, big butt/small butt, wide hips/skinny, etc.).

Absolutely.

I’m finding this whole “Modesty rules” thing to be getting quite old. Women can wear pants, I find them very nice. Skin-tight pants are not nice and will not attract the right men.

It’s true that no “modesty checklist” will hold true for long, and that they won’t commonly hold true between cultures. There may very well have been a time and place when wearing pants was, in fact, a very promiscuous and un-feminine thing to do, and there may perfectly well have been a culture where going topless was perfectly modest. But we really can make something of a modesty checklist for a specifictime and culture, and such a list I imagine would be very helpful to women seeking to dress modestly.

On to the original topic:

1. Like most of the people in this thread, I disagree with this one. I have never found pants to be a near occasion of sin, and I can’t remember ever hearing another man say that they were for him, either. As for skirts being a feminine clothing and pants a masculine clothing, I disagree too. It’s absolutely true that men should dress in a masculine way and women in a feminine way at all times and in all cultures, but what clothing is masculine and what clothing is feminine changes from time to time and culture to culture. It’s not as if skirts are intrinsically feminine and pants intrinsically masculine. In the western world in the year 2006, pants can very much be a feminine article of clothing or a masculine article of clothing, depending on the pair. So, a woman wearing pants, at least the proper sort of pants, is not a woman adorning herself as a man.
2. After mulling this one over for a minute, I think I agree with it. Requesting that women cover the arm to the elbow or perhaps near it seems reasoable, as completely exposed arms because of merely shoulder straps or the like is a temptation to lust for some men.
3. I agree with this one.
4. Short skirts are definitely a problem, but skirts that reach to covering a bit of the knee rather than two inches below it have never been a temptation for me, and seem to be very modest in our culture.
5. I have seen nearly floor-length skirts with slits that reach only about halfway up the calf, and such slits don’t seem to be immodest to me. Be extremely careful with slitted skirts, but I don’t agree with giving a catch-all “never wear a slitted skirt.”
6. This seems like a reasonable rule; sheer things are often a real temptation. Although, like number two, I’m open to the possibility of exceptions to the rule, though I can’t really think of any right now.
7. I would say that any neckline that reveals no clevage at all from one foot or so up would be perfectly modest. No bare backs helps.
8. I agree with this one, writing in those places definitely directs my attention to areas I probably shouldn’t be looking at all.
9. Swimming is a very different environment than merely socializing or at the workplace, as less attention is given to areas below the surface of the water and we are nearly always actively doing something while swimming. I havn’t even found a problem with a one-piece standard bathing suit in terms of near occasions of sin, but by all means: wear a one-piece.

 

[RonRule]

While I think these rules are well-intentioned, like others have said, these standard lusts are difficult to define.

For example, if I think about it, I probably find skirts and dresses inherently more feminine and more sexually charged than pants. Without being too crude, I’m talking about overall receptivity and accessibility.

If it’s seriously all about avoiding lust, sport some Mom Jeans.

A good general rule: when in doubt, ask your dad or husband if it’s appropriate.

 

[rwoehmke]

In my opinion Colleens book is primarily lots of “overkill”. Short skirts, skin tight clothes on the shapely, lots of cleavage, exposed undies, bare bellies for street wear, again on the shapely would be a problem for me if I did not have custody of my eyes. You have to realize some guys can get off on a bare ankle so you might consider the burkha. There is nothing as repulsive to me, I am 70, as young, pudgy gals with bare belly bulges, or looking poured into their clothes.

 

[Isidore_AK]

1. Wear no pants: Lets revise this to wear pants, only if they completely cover your butt, do not let your panties show, and are not so tight that we can see…er…Dromedary parts.
2. Keep arms covered to the elbows: Huh? Doesn’t matter.
3. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from
   undergarments are visible: ie. Panty lines are a no-no.
4. Skirts: I think this can be summed up as “don’t dress like a hooker”…
5. No slits in skirts ever: Small slits for ease of movement are fine…
6. Nothing sheer: Agreed.
7. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths
   below the pit of the throat: Full breast coverage. A little cleavage is fine, just don’t let your bosoms fall out. Maybe define it as a line across from the top of one armpit to the other?
8. No writing on chest of back of pants: This is a personal pet peeve of mine. I tend to read everything that is in sight. If you stick a shampoo bottle in front of me my eyes are drawn to the text. I HATE IT when women (usually teenie-boppers) are wearing tight pants and have text across their butt. That and those tight knit tops that say something crass about staring at their breasts.
9. Swimsuits: I would really like it if women would move back to a one piece swim suit. I was a competitive swimmer, and “real” swimsuits don’t bother me in the least, but the bikini’s have got to go…I don’t even know why they call them swimsuits. You can’t swim in one of those…

Just my thoughts. Many many of us men have a problem with this. I don’t want to look. I really, truly don’t. I pray to St Michael every time that I’m around trashily dressed females…but its hard not to notice. I’m not blaming anything on them, but it is truly hard to not notice when someones breasts are falling out the bottom of a tube top (or whatever those rubber-band looking tops are) or they’re pants are so low cut you can see pubic hair in front and the top third of their butt in the back (and it usually confirms that they don’t wear undergarments either…).

Sorry for the rant…

 

[Saint_Sinner]

Those of us who have had problems with this would appreciate any help we can get.

 

[SeekerJen]

1. Wear no pants: Lets revise this to wear pants, only if they completely cover your butt, do not let your panties show, and are not so tight that we can see…er…Dromedary parts.

I know this is for guys to respond, but I couldn’t help it:

 

[tipiloschi]

Dude,

I dont have custody of my eyes. Pray for me. I strive for purity but ITS SOOOOOO HARD!!! Honestly, pray for me.

On the same token though I am against reaming on girls for what they were too much. Us guys try to but so much blame on the women we forget that we need to pray that our perverted minds are purified and that we are able to ‘behold the naked body without shame’, the way it should be

I personally will most likely be dead far before reaching that point

 

[uncleauberon]

1. Wear no pants, as it almost always causes men to lust.

Er, YEP - wearing no pants certainly always causes men to lust.

Seriously, Pants may or may not be sexually attractive depending on - the material - the cut - the woman’s figure.

It is something to think about , but not a good generalization.

Furthermore, I have found many dresses with tight cuts that are very intriguing.

1. Keep arms covered to the elbows.

I don’t get this one at all.

1. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from undergarments are visible.

YES, YES, YES - I agree with this whole heartily.

1. Skirts should be at least 2 inches below the knee, preferably 8 inches below the knee.

This might be a good guideline for Modesty.

But, In some situations a shorter dress could be appropriate.
If done tastefully without inciting undue Lust.

1. No slits in skirts ever.

I’ll have to go with this one, Yes.

1. Nothing sheer.

Yep, Sheer garments even if they are covering innocent parts of the body draw a great deal of attention.
Unless it’s hosiery.

1. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths below the pit of the throat.

See my comment on Pants

1. No writing on chest of back of pants.

I’ll agree with no writing just on the chest … a statement or Logo or Design that covers the whole front of the shirt would not attract attention just to the chest.

Writing on the back of pants ! This annoys me to no end…

As a man in Youth ministry I hate that my eyes are drawn to reading the butts of teenage cheerleaders or such.
It happens before even know what’s happening !

1. While she does not state this in her book, she does imply that women and men should never swim together,

This is not reasonable in our culture.

When we are faced with an environment such as a pool or Beach then we need to find “modest” bathing suits.

The Clothes should always fit the situation.
Then Find the right modest clothes for that context.

A Modest Evening Gown will not have the same rules as a Modest Business suit.

Hey this is one Guy’s opinion.

tjp

 

[Liberian]

Little Flower,

My rule of thumb is “Cover the shoulders, cover the knees, cover everything in between.”

I’m afraid I can’t answer your questions directly because I’m not sure what the difference is between slacks, pants, and jeans.

• Liberian

 

[Ana]

Dude,

I dont have custody of my eyes. Pray for me. I strive for purity but ITS SOOOOOO HARD!!! Honestly, pray for me.

On the same token though I am against reaming on girls for what they were too much. Us guys try to but so much blame on the women we forget that we need to pray that our perverted minds are purified and that we are able to ‘behold the naked body without shame’, the way it should be

I personally will most likely be dead far before reaching that point

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

It is refreshing to see a man owning up to HIS responsibility.

I think modesty “rules” are the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Modesty comes from within and will be reflected in how you dress.

If women concentrated on living their life the way God calls them to than the dress will fall into place. Rules do nothing but invite scrupulosity and pride. Because now that I look like someone from Little House on the Prairie, I can notice what all the other woman are wearing and mentally measure the length of others skirts.

I think someone like that is putting just as much emphasis on what they wear as someone who follows the latest fashions to the tee. OBSESSED WITH CLOTHES.

I have chosen a simpler route. Because I feel called to a simple lifestyle. I really am not impressed on either end of the clothing spectrum. I wear jeans, and a tee with sneakers mostly. My favorite outfit is my old comfy jeans and my “Where the Wild Things Are…” t-shirt I got off the clearance rack at Walmart. My kiddies LOVE it. They think I’m pretty cool.That makes me happy.

Yes, I am attractive, yes I have a nice figure. I do not feel an abnormal need to hide it or emphasize it. I dress for what is appropriate to my state of life and occasion.

Oh yeah my hair? hee … hee … dreadlocks.

The chicks that walk around all blinged blinged with there boobies hanging out and their thong sticking out from their jeans, I feel really sorry for and I pray for them. The ones that walk around with the shirts to the elbow and skirts to their ankles (no slits) in 100 degree weather make me laugh. I don’t pray for them, they are holy enough.

 

[DiscerningDave]

Lustfullness is the individual’s problem…not the other person’s. We have the power to control our own thoughts and actions. It is OK to recognize that someone is attractive, but one needs to acknowledge the thought and let it go. I study all religions for educational reasons and the buddhist’s have a great concept on this. When they meditate, they try to achieve emptiness of the mind. If a thought enters, they accept it and release it. It is called self-control…and a little bit of prayer doesn’t hurt either.

Oh, by the way…I never said it was easy.

 

[scylla]

I don’t have a problem with pants except many divert attention to the booty, which most men don’t have a problem with. Most men have a problem with purity and enjoy looking at women, you will find the exceptions here on this forum and some other Christian forums.

You should wear what you feel comfortable in to a point, and remember though you might not be sinning you might be leading others to an occasion to sin. That is why I don’t walk around with my shirt off with my ripped abs showing and stuff, those are for my wife.

I can keep my mind pretty clean with prayer it just takes a lot of work in this day and age. I don’t need temptation and try to stay away from it, so it is inconsiderate to dress immodestly if you believe in having proper morals.

God Bless
Scylla