Want some History and Scripture apologetics for the POPE?

[jonesy31]

Where is Pope in the Bible???

The Pope or Biblically known as GOD’s “ONE SHEPHERD, MY SERVANT DAVID” can be found in five New Covenant prophecies: Jeremiah 33:14-22, Psalm 89:29, 36-37, Isaiah 22:21-22, Ezekiel 34:23 and Ezekiel 37:24-26.

Jeremiah 33:14-22 “Behold, the DAYS ARE COMING, says the Lord, WHEN I WILL FULFILL THE PROMISE I MADE to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring forth for David; and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’ For thus says the Lord: DAVID SHALL NEVER LACK A MAN TO SIT ON THE THRONE of the house of Israel, and the LEVITICAL PRIESTS SHALL NEVER LACK A MAN IN MY PRESENCE to offer burnt offerings, to burn cereal offerings, and TO MAKE SACRIFICES FOREVER…….If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night will not come at their appointed time, then also my covenant with DAVID MY SERVANT may be broken, SO THAT HE SHALL NOT HAVE A SON TO REIGN ON HIS THRONE, AND MY COVENANT WITH THE LEVITICAL PRIESTS MY MINISTERS. As the host of heaven cannot be numbered and the sands of the sea cannot be measured, SO I WILL MULTIPLY THE DESCENDANTS OF DAVID MY SERVANT, AND THE LEVITICAL PRIEST WHO MINISTER TO ME.”

Psalm 89:29 “I WILL ESTABLISH HIS LINE FOREVER AND HIS THRONE AS THE DAYS OF HEAVEN” and verse 36-37 “HIS LINE SHALL ENDURE FOREVER, HIS THRONE AS LONG AS THE SUN BEFORE ME. LIKE THE MOON IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOREVER. IT SHALL STAND FIRM WHILE THE SKIES ENDURE”.

Isaiah 22:21-22 “I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your belt on him, and will commit your AUTHORITY TO HIS HAND; and he shall be a FATHER to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I WILL PLACE ON HIS SHOULDER THE KEY OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID; HE SHALL OPEN AND NONE SHALL SHUT; AND HE SHALL SHUT AND NONE SHALL OPEN”. What does Jesus Christ say to Peter in Matthew 16:18-19??? “I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I WILL GIVE YOU THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, AND WHATEVER YOU BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN, AND WHATEVER YOU LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN”.

Ezekiel 34:23 Thus, says the Lord in context - “And I WILL SET OVER THEM ONE SHEPHERD, MY SERVANT DAVID, and HE SHALL FEED THEM; HE SHALL FEED THEM AND BE THEIR SHEPHERD”. Yes, this is initially referencing Jesus Christ, but notice these exact words in this prophecy mentioned to Peter alone in John 21:15-17 to the eventual “SON TO REIGN ON HIS THRONE” and is instructed to do what three times ??? Jesus says to Peter alone “FEED MY LAMBS”, “TEND MY SHEEP”, and “FEED MY SHEEP”.

Ezekiel 37:24-26. Thus says the Lord in context - “MY SERVANT DAVID SHALL BE KING OVER THEM; and they shall all have ONE SHEPHERD. They shall follow my ordinances and be care to observe my statutes”. Then in verse 26 “I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and MULTIPLY THEM, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forever more”.

We have in Matthew 16:18-19 Jesus Christ fulfilling all these prophecies by establishing ONE SHEPERD in Peter by passing the “keys” of authority of His ONE and ONLY established CHURCH to him. From Peter what do we see throughout the course of history, but a “multiplication of DESCENDANTS”:

Visit this website for historical lineage: newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Jeremiah 33:20-22. What does GOD say would not “shine” if His covenant was “broken” with David???

GOD does keep His covenant promises in His ONE and ONLY HISTORICAL, BIBLICAL, and LITURGICAL CHURCH: the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Gorgias]

Hi, jonesy!

Where is Pope in the Bible???

The Pope or Biblically known as GOD’s “ONE SHEPHERD, MY SERVANT DAVID”

Umm… no. Actually, references to the “one shepherd” and prophetic references to a future person as “my servant David” are actually references to Jesus. The Pope is merely His vicar on earth.

five New Covenant prophecies: Jeremiah 33:14-22, Psalm 89:29, 36-37, Ezekiel 34:23 and Ezekiel 37:24-26.

:nope: These are prophecies about Jesus.

Ezekiel 34:23 … Yes, this is initially referencing Jesus Christ, but notice these exact words in this prophecy mentioned to Peter alone in John 21:15-17 to the eventual “SON TO REIGN ON HIS THRONE” and is instructed to do what three times ??? Jesus says to Peter alone “FEED MY LAMBS”, “TEND MY SHEEP”, and “FEED MY SHEEP”.

Jesus fulfills the prophecies of Ezekiel, even if he does so through the ministry of His pope.

 

[jonesy31]

Hi, jonesy!

Umm… no. Actually, references to the “one shepherd” and prophetic references to a future person as “my servant David” are actually references to Jesus. The Pope is merely His vicar on earth.

:nope: These are prophecies about Jesus.

Jesus fulfills the prophecies of Ezekiel, even if he does so through the ministry of His pope.

Psalm 89:29, 36 “I WILL ESTABLISH HIS LINE” and “HIS LINE” repeated again??? What does “HIS LINE” mean to you as well as Jeremiah 33:22…what does “I will MULTIPLY THE DESCENDANTS” and Ezekiel 37:26 “I will bless them and MULTIPLY THEM” mean to you???

 

[Gorgias]

Psalm 89:29, 36 “I WILL ESTABLISH HIS LINE” and “HIS LINE” repeated again??? What does “HIS LINE” mean

It means ‘the line of David’: “I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have sworn to David my servent: I will make your dynasty stand forever and establish your throne through all ages.”

Jesus is the eternal king in the line of David.

Jeremiah 33:22…what does “I will MULTIPLY THE DESCENDANTS”

Again, the context is “my covenant with my servant David” (33:31).

and Ezekiel 37:26 “I will bless them and MULTIPLY THEM” mean to you???

Here, the context is the nation of Israel: “Thus says the Lord God: I will soon take the Israelites from among the nations… they shall ever again be two nations… they shall all have one shepherd. … They shall live on the land I gave to Jacob.” (37:21, 22, 24)

Remember: priests are in the line of Melchizedek, not of David. Christ, the High Priest, is the one in the line of David, who fulfills the Davidic prophecies!

 

[jonesy31]

It means ‘the line of David’: “I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have sworn to David my servent: I will make your dynasty stand forever and establish your throne through all ages.”

Jesus is the eternal king in the line of David.

I appreciated your feedback and did change the title to reflect “HIS LINE” and “MULTIPLICATION OF DESCENDANTS”.

Now, given your interpretation Jesus will “multiply Himself”. What does “descendants” mean to you???

Again, the context is “my covenant with my servant David” (33:31).

Here, the context is the nation of Israel: “Thus says the Lord God: I will soon take the Israelites from among the nations… they shall ever again be two nations… they shall all have one shepherd. … They shall live on the land I gave to Jacob.” (37:21, 22, 24)

Remember: priests are in the line of Melchizedek, not of David. Christ, the High Priest, is the one in the line of David, who fulfills the Davidic prophecies!

Do you not understand we Catholics have all of our 'roots" in the Jewish Faith??? The first Catholics were all “fulfilled Jews” as they were instructed to gather the “Lost Tribes” first, then the Gentiles were included later in Acts 15. Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the OT covenant promises and messiah prophecies.

In Jeremiah 33:14-22 GOD promises two things in the NEW COVENANT prophecy: 1. A ministerial priesthood (I don’t care if you want to call them Melchizedek or not -they still fulfill this Leviticus ministerial priesthood promise) 2. “multiplication of descendants” “on a throne”. Additionally, we see GOD promising in the NEW COVENANT to include “Gentiles” as what obviously no longer based on tribal lineage in Isaiah 66:21???

What ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ has these promises “fulfilled” and continuing on in their NEW COVENANT FORM???

 

[jonesy31]

So, per your interpretation Jesus will be “multiplying Himself on the throne”??? Does that make sense or my interpretation with complete history from Jesus Christ to back it up???

Do you not understand we Catholics have all of our 'roots" in the Jewish Faith??? The first Catholics were all “fulfilled Jews” as they were instructed to gather the “Lost Tribes” first, then the Gentiles were included later in Acts 15. Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the OT covenant promises and messiah prophecies.

In Jeremiah 33:14-22 GOD promises two things in the NEW COVENANT prophecy: 1. A ministerial priesthood (I don’t care if you want to call them Melchizedek or not -they still fulfill this Leviticus ministerial priesthood promise) 2. “multiplication of descendants” “on a throne”. Additionally, we see GOD promising in the NEW COVENANT to include “Gentiles” as what obviously no longer based on tribal lineage in Isaiah 66:21???

What ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ has these promises “fulfilled” and continuing on in their NEW COVENANT FORM???

 

[jonesy31]

So, given your interpretation will Jesus Christ be “multiplying Himself on the throne”??? How does that fit logically and Scripturaly??? Instead, we see throughout the course of history there actually is a “multiplication of DESCENDANTS” “ON A THRONE”:

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

What does GOD say would not “shine” if this covenant with David was “broken” in Jeremiah 33:20-22 in the NEW COVENANT??? How could it be “broken” if Jesus is in Heaven??? How does that make logical and Scriptural sense???

 

[vallancec]

I recommend this book:
Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths and Misconceptions About the Papacy
By Patrick Madrid

Also the apologist on this site are helpful if you have further questions.

God bless

 

[Gorgias]

Do you not understand we Catholics have all of our 'roots" in the Jewish Faith??? The first Catholics were all “fulfilled Jews” as they were instructed to gather the “Lost Tribes” first, then the Gentiles were included later in Acts 15. Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the OT covenant promises and messiah prophecies.

In Jeremiah 33:14-22 GOD promises two things in the NEW COVENANT prophecy:

Actually, if you read v14, you see that God isn’t making a new covenant, but promising to fulfill the covenant He already “made to the house of Israel and the house of Judah.” So, we’re talking about an existing covenant…

1. A ministerial priesthood (I don’t care if you want to call them Melchizedek or not -they still fulfill this Leviticus ministerial priesthood promise)

Actually, Catholic priests don’t “fulfill Levitical ministerial” duties; they don’t “sacrifice burnt offerings” or “burn cereal offerings”, as v18 notes. In fact, you might do well to re-read the letter to the Hebrews, since in that letter, it’s clear that the old sacrifices have gone away; the Levitical priesthood – which is being discussed in Jeremiah 33 – gives way to Christ the High Priest.

1. “multiplication of descendants” “on a throne”.

No, the “multiplication of descendants” isn’t “on a throne.” In vv. 17 and 21, the reference to a ‘throne’ is a reference to a king in the line of David. In v. 22, the “multiplication of descendants of David” is a reference that there shall be kings in the Davidic line.

Now, given your interpretation Jesus will “multiply Himself”. What does “descendants” mean to you???

Nope – I never claimed that “Jesus will ‘multiply Himself’.” Here’s the salient question: has the prophecy come true? Is there a Davidic king on the throne in Israel? Are there Levites performing sacrifices in the temple? If not, then we have to think about whether the prophecy will ever come true… :sad_yes:

What ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ has these promises “fulfilled” and continuing on in their NEW COVENANT FORM???

None.

The Catholic Church does not have Levitical sacrifices, nor does it have a king in the line of David on a throne in Israel. (Oh, sure, it has a vicar to Jesus (the Davidic king) in Rome, but not a king in Israel. It has priests, but not Levitical priests making Levitical sacrifices. The Levite priests, in a way of thinking, are a type that is fulfilled in the priesthood of Christ, but they aren’t Levitical priests.)

So, given your interpretation will Jesus Christ be “multiplying Himself on the throne”???

Nope. Christ fulfills the New Covenant.

Instead, we see throughout the course of history there actually is a “multiplication of DESCENDANTS” “ON A THRONE”:

They’re not descendants of David; as Gentiles, they cannot fulfill that prophecy. Sorry.

What does GOD say would not “shine” if this covenant with David was “broken” in Jeremiah 33:20-22 in the NEW COVENANT???

Which translation are you using? I’m not seeing a reference to anything ‘shining’ here…

How could it be “broken” if Jesus is in Heaven??? How does that make logical and Scriptural sense???

Again, I’m not certain what you’re referring to as being ‘broken’…