Want to become a policeman

[MtnMan]

Hi everyone, i really think that I want to become a police officer but I have a few questions and concerns that I’d like to hear from others about.

First off, I really think that the police do a good service for the rest of the world and all but there’s just some aspects of the job that I have a hard time coming to terms with. I realize that officers carry weapons for their self defense, but is using a gun for your defense all the way to lethal force something that a Christian can do in good conscience? I realize that we all must face God with our sins when we die, and I just think I’d be scared ****less if I was before Him and He asked me why did you kill that man?- even if it was justified as we see it. I’ve done alot of research on the subject and have asked many different people about their views- some say killing is always wrong and that we need to put our life fully in God’s hands even if that means death, while others seem to say its acceptable for self defense- this is the Church’s stance as well.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and He never killed anybody. i realize that killing in self defense seems to make sense in the whole context of the Bible, but I guess I dont feel 100% confident- it seems like a gamble with my soul and the other person’s.

I really feel like the police would be a place to do alot of good in this world, but those things i talked about above make me uneasy. If there are any current or retired policeman on here that can help that’d be awesome!

 

[markomalley]

A few catechism quotes for you:

1909 Finally, the common good requires peace, that is, the stability and security of a just order. It presupposes that authority should ensure by morally acceptable means the security of society and its members. It is the basis of the right to legitimate personal and collective defence.

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… the one is intended, the other is not.”

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.
​

There are a few concerns that one could legitimately have with being a law enforcement officer, particularly in these days, but I don’t think having to use lethal force to defend an innocent life (or your own life) is one of those concerns.

 

[Barbkw]

If someone came into my home and threatened my life (and if I could get to my gun before he / she did) I’d have no problem either wounding their body or taking their life.

Killing someone in self defense is not a venial or mortal sin.

 

[Alexander_Smith]

Hi everyone, i really think that I want to become a police officer but I have a few questions and concerns that I’d like to hear from others about.

First off, I really think that the police do a good service for the rest of the world and all but there’s just some aspects of the job that I have a hard time coming to terms with. I realize that officers carry weapons for their self defense, but is using a gun for your defense all the way to lethal force something that a Christian can do in good conscience? I realize that we all must face God with our sins when we die, and I just think I’d be scared ****less if I was before Him and He asked me why did you kill that man?- even if it was justified as we see it. I’ve done alot of research on the subject and have asked many different people about their views- some say killing is always wrong and that we need to put our life fully in God’s hands even if that means death, while others seem to say its acceptable for self defense- this is the Church’s stance as well.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and He never killed anybody. i realize that killing in self defense seems to make sense in the whole context of the Bible, but I guess I dont feel 100% confident- it seems like a gamble with my soul and the other person’s.

I really feel like the police would be a place to do alot of good in this world, but those things i talked about above make me uneasy. If there are any current or retired policeman on here that can help that’d be awesome!

First of all, good for you, that is my goal as well.

Killing in self defense is morally justified ALWAYS. If it is in self-defense, or defense of country, or defense of property (your home) or defense of another, it is justified and in fact necessary for the survival and good of civilization.

As George Orwell said “Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

 

[Angel_Bradford]

Hi everyone, i really think that I want to become a police officer but I have a few questions and concerns that I’d like to hear from others about.

First off, I really think that the police do a good service for the rest of the world and all but there’s just some aspects of the job that I have a hard time coming to terms with. I realize that officers carry weapons for their self defense, but is using a gun for your defense all the way to lethal force something that a Christian can do in good conscience? I realize that we all must face God with our sins when we die, and I just think I’d be scared ****less if I was before Him and He asked me why did you kill that man?- even if it was justified as we see it. I’ve done alot of research on the subject and have asked many different people about their views- some say killing is always wrong and that we need to put our life fully in God’s hands even if that means death, while others seem to say its acceptable for self defense- this is the Church’s stance as well.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and He never killed anybody. i realize that killing in self defense seems to make sense in the whole context of the Bible, but I guess I dont feel 100% confident- it seems like a gamble with my soul and the other person’s.

I really feel like the police would be a place to do alot of good in this world, but those things i talked about above make me uneasy. If there are any current or retired policeman on here that can help that’d be awesome!

First of all, deadly force is only justified in defense of yourself or other or to stop the commisission of a forcible felon.

As a police officer of 25 years, I can tell you that no officer wants to take a life and we are not trained to shoot to kill, but shoot to stop. Even if you do everything you’re are supposed to do, by the law and by the SOP, it will be the hardest decision you will ever have to make, but God will know that you did everything you could to prevent it.

 

[Nelka]

Killing someone in self defense is not a venial or mortal sin.

I cannot agree with that.

We aren’t talking about a scuffle that goes wrong, purposefully shooting someone in the face because they want to steal your television is totally wrong.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

…I really feel like the police would be a place to do alot of good in this world, but those things i talked about above make me uneasy. If there are any current or retired policeman on here that can help that’d be awesome!

The academy will teach you whats called a “continuum of force”. You are unlikely to ever need to draw your service weapon, I don’t think the majority of officers ever do. As long as you follow policy and your training then you should be alright even if the unthinkable occurs. That particular situation is unlikely to happen. Every day though, you will have to make moral decisions that you will be just as responsible for. Many times because of policy and the law, you will have no choice but to do something that you may find morally distasteful. Sometimes you will have a chance to make a real difference in someones life. Law enforcement is very rewarding. You develop a sense of brotherhood and family with the people you work with. But there are no easy moral answers and you will have some sleepless nights. Overall its a great job, one you can always be proud that you did. I am a former LEO.

 

[Barbkw]

I cannot agree with that.

We aren’t talking about a scuffle that goes wrong, purposefully shooting someone in the face because they want to steal your television is totally wrong.

The problem is that many thiefs carry guns and “accidentially” use them in the committing of crimes.

Watch “Lock Up” and you’ll learn that many drug addicted thiefs carry guns and that they are under the influence of drugs when they break into and enter into homes and businesses to commit these crimes.

They will kill people who are in the residence so that no witnesses are left to identify them.

 

[foundmyfaith]

I cannot agree with that.

We aren’t talking about a scuffle that goes wrong, purposefully shooting someone in the face because they want to steal your television is totally wrong.

The poster said:
Re: want to become a policeman
If someone came into my home and threatened my life (and if I could get to my gun before he / she did) I’d have no problem either wounding their body or taking their life.

Killing someone in self defense is not a venial or mortal sin.

They did not say they were killing someone over a TV. Killing in self defense is justified, Always. I would personally try to subdue a person by less ‘permanent’ means if I caught them in the act of robbing my home. However, if I had a chance to get it, my gun would be with me.

Peace

 

[Barbkw]

We live in an area and a state with relatively low violent crime involving guns.

However, when it does happen …

A guy 4 years ago at New Years, walked into our hospital emergency center, and drew his gun (police assisted suicide). He was shot and killed by a police officer who happened to be in the hospital at the time.

We had 3 young people (21 to 23 year’s old) rob a bank - who within 40 seconds of entering the bank - they immediately shot and killed 5 tellers.

Many of the murders that do occur - are related to domestic or work related violence.

 

[puzzleannie]

no if you cannot in good conscience use necessary and proportionate force to meet a threat against safety of citizens do not become a policeman. but do understand this is a personal decision, not based on Church teaching.

 

[kbwall]

Also, if it helps, you’re not just defending yourself as a cop. You’re defending your fellow citizens and officers. If this guy proves himself to be a clear threat, and is waving his gun around shooting people, and ending his life is the only to take him down, then you will be saving lives other than your own.

Just as a word of caution, don’t get too trigger happy. Cops are supposed to use their guns as an absolute last resort, and it’s not just God you’ll have to answer to if you use unauthorized lethal force. You’re a cop, not a cowboy.

 

[MtnMan]

Thanks all for the replies so far, everything y’all have brought up so far makes sense. Self-defense is a legitimate reason for force, but where in the Bible does it say this is OK(sorry about my lack of knowledge here.) Alot of people have told me that Jesus’ teachings from the Sermon on the Mount make our use of violence as Christians unacceptable. Many have told me that we are to emulate Christ, and that we shouldn’t defend ourselves because we should have faith that we will have eternal life.

I guess i’m just really afraid of God’s judgement- am i too afraid? The last thing i want to ever do is have to kill someone, but I feel that in a life or death situation especially with other people’s lives, I’d do what is necessary. What happens to the suspect’s soul though?

 

[Nelka]

The poster said:
Re: want to become a policeman
If someone came into my home and threatened my life (and if I could get to my gun before he / she did) I’d have no problem either wounding their body or taking their life.

Killing someone in self defense is not a venial or mortal sin.

They did not say they were killing someone over a TV. Killing in self defense is justified, Always. I would personally try to subdue a person by less ‘permanent’ means if I caught them in the act of robbing my home. However, if I had a chance to get it, my gun would be with me.

Peace

Catechism:

2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.

2320 The murder of a human being is gravely contrary to the dignity of the person and the holiness of the Creator.

Matthew 26:52 Jesus then said, 'Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

 

[Barbkw]

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm

Catechism of the Catholic Church

**Legitimate defense **

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. **Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . .

Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66 **

**2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility. **

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68

 

[MtnMan]

Nelka:

Matthew 26:52 Jesus then said, 'Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

I always understood that as meaning if you rely on violence and this world you will die(not have eternal life). From what I understand a weapon is a tool, not something you want to rely on for everything-its a last resort.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

Nelka:

Matthew 26:52 Jesus then said, 'Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

I always understood that as meaning if you rely on violence and this world you will die(not have eternal life). From what I understand a weapon is a tool, not something you want to rely on for everything-its a last resort.

You’re right; deadly force is a last resort. That’s why you’re taught less lethel options starting command presence. However, please understand, that not all situations are going to afford you that opportunity. You must be prepared for those situations that start at the last resort stage (e.g. an active shooter in a school house).

 

[foundmyfaith]

Thanks to all who did the Catechism research.

 

[kbwall]

Also, like I said earlier, since we’re talking about police work, this goes farther than just self defense. You’re defending your fellow officers, and protecting other citizens. I can see how you’d be hesitant if it were just your life, but lots of other lives potentially would be in jeopardy as well. If killing one guy is the only way to save ten other lives, I can’t see how that’d be a sin.

 

[Nelka]

This is a tough question for American’s due to the amount of guns and you would have to have one.

You may be better off talking to a priest about this.