Want to come back to the Church, wife is staunch Baptist

[minorsecond]

The Bible calls us to be prepared to give a defense of our faith so yes, you should be prepared to answer not only this question with actual Catholic doctrine but also a vast number of questions that will likely come at you from all angles.

Therefore, you should know what the Catholic Church actually teaches on works but also on most other common objections.

For the “works righteousness” charge against the Church, the Council of Trent (I believe, but someone correct me if I’m wrong) actually *agreed with the Protestant Reformers and reaffirmed the Catholic teaching * that we are saved by grace and NOT by works. However, Catholics believe that we must continue to cooperate with God’s grace for it to be efficacious.

Most Protestants (well, our Protestant friends have anyway) will begin their assault on the Catholic Church with Ephesians 2: 8-9 which says:
*
“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.”*

However, they fail to see that the very next verse (verse 10) says:

---

“10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.” (NRSV)***

Further, James 2: 26 says:

"26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead."

I have a list of great books, videos, and audio recordings that I’ll PM you. They are ALL from Catholics who converted from mainstream Protestantism and they all researched the Catholic faith significantly before conversion so they converted based upon the cold, hard truths of Scripture and history. I believe it would serve you well to become acquainted with these people if you haven’t already.

Like I said before, continue to pray for your wife.

But, I’d get a few of these books and audios to leave lying around

It’s tough - I hate not having answers for everything (yes, pride ) I believe the usual Protestant answer to Ephesians 2:10 is something along the lines of “God did create us for good works - we’re here to love others and do His will but that doesn’t save us.” I believe that’s the official spiel. Likewise with James: “A true, saving faith will inevitably result in good works. These good works are the fruit which give evidence of the new life inside, an outward manifestation of your salvation.”

I’d love the list you have! Especially audio and video recordings (they give me something to listen to at work). Thanks!

 

[slh3016]

It’s tough - I hate not having answers for everything (yes, pride ) I believe the usual Protestant answer to Ephesians 2:10 is something along the lines of “God did create us for good works - we’re here to love others and do His will but that doesn’t save us.”

I believe that’s the official spiel. Likewise with James: “A true, saving faith will inevitably result in good works. **These good works are the fruit which give evidence **of the new life inside, an outward manifestation of your salvation.”

Yes, and AMEN! This is the Catholic teaching!!

I mean, do you think works save you? I hope not!

Good works give the evidence of life of the soul. They are the pulse (an indicator) of life within the body. A person is alive when blood is flowing through their veins. Works are the pulse! No works = no pulse = no life :sad_yes:

It amazes me that Protestants almost 99.9% agree with Catholic teaching in practice regarding works but they continue to argue in theory that works don’t matter and that Catholicism teaches a “works-based salvation”

I’d love the list you have! Especially audio and video recordings (they give me something to listen to at work). Thanks!

Sent a few minutes ago. Honestly, I’d start with Stephen Ray’s “Born Again? Faith Alone?” audio. I have the CD from Lighthouse Catholic Media but it’s on YouTube, as well.

 

[Adonia]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

I think what I hate is the timeframe of all this. I left the Church, diddled around in Protestantism for a year or two, and want to come back. It’s just all so fast. I know what people’s reactions are going to be like. Bahh!

I will tell her the truth. I’m definitely going to take my time. I’ve been reading a lot of arguments back and forth. Could someone recommend where to start with her to put a chip in her Protestant armor? I assume it would be with Church authority? I don’t know what the best approach is going to be - all I know is that when I take that first step (coming clean), I’m going to meet a barrage of Protestants from our church, from her family, my family, etc. So I want to be as learned as possible beforehand and have an answer for as many questions and accusations as possible. I’m trying to figure out how to order “Home Sweet Home,” as mentioned by DaveBj, without her knowing (shared checking account and all). I’ve been reading “The Protestant’ Dilemma,” which is pretty good.

We’re going to a weekly “home group” meeting tomorrow after church where they’re going to ask us to give our testimonies. Boy, that’s going to be interesting. I’m trying to decide how to handle it.

DaveBj, to by honest, I don’t know if it truly wasn’t a genuine conversion. Before leaving the Church, I did do quite a bit of research and became doubtful about a few things (things I’m currently researching still), but to be sure there were quite a few things which just took a “leap of faith,” as it were.

To be clear, I’m having the usual hangups on Marian doctrine, and the Eucharist. Now, I believe in the real presence, but I’m not entirely sure, if that makes sense. I’m right on the precipice of fully believing. I’ve heard all the John 6, trogo, why did the disciples leave, arguments. I’m just looking for that last knockout piece of evidence.

I mentioned to her last night that I’m having trouble understanding why, in John 6, Jesus lets the people leave Him believing that he was being literal about His body and blood if He were just being metaphorical. She was too busy with schoolwork so she hasn’t given it a real thought but I’m going to mention it again tonight. I think I’m going to kind of ease into this by gradually bringing up my doubts piece by piece. Might not be the best plan, but it’s all I’ve got.

Mostly, I’m just afraid of her father. **

So you are going to have to give your testimony? Oh boy! You can’t really get up and lie, can you? Until you hash this whole thing out with your wife, maybe you can speak in a general manner. You know all the stuff that is true like you love the Lord, that you are seeking the full truth, stuff like that. I fear if you are specific things will not go well for you.

Look, I know how Baptists can be. I sometimes attend services with them at truck stops and we can have a genuine fellowship. I have given my testimony and have kept it general. Me blurting out that I was a Catholic would only cause problems, so I don’t go there.

Well anyway, good luck and keep us informed of how things are going. At some time you might have to fess up, but would this next meeting really be the best time?

As for the Marion doctrine, what’s the big deal? She is after all the mother of God. But yes, some Catholics do take this particular devotion to the extreme, but you don’t have to. Concentrate on Christ, the Blessed Mother will be highly pleased.

How can you have any hangups about the Eucharist? Just read the Scriptures and have faith when Jesus says: “This is my Body and This is my Blood”. Jesus cannot lie and any other interpretation is in error. That is the major reason I could never be a Baptist or any other non-orthodox faith adherent.

 

[minorsecond]

So you are going to have to give your testimony? Oh boy! You can’t really get up and lie, can you? Until you hash this whole thing out with your wife, maybe you can speak in a general manner. You know all the stuff that is true like you love the Lord, that you are seeking the full truth, stuff like that. I fear if you are specific things will not go well for you.

Look, I know how Baptists can be. I sometimes attend services with them at truck stops and we can have a genuine fellowship. I have given my testimony and have kept it general. Me blurting out that I was a Catholic would only cause problems, so I don’t go there.

Well anyway, good luck and keep us informed of how things are going. At some time you might have to fess up, but would this next meeting really be the best time?

As for the Marion doctrine, what’s the big deal? She is after all the mother of God. But yes, some Catholics do take this particular devotion to the extreme, but you don’t have to. Concentrate on Christ, the Blessed Mother will be highly pleased.

How can you have any hangups about the Eucharist? Just read the Scriptures and have faith when Jesus says: “This is my Body and This is my Blood”. Jesus cannot lie and any other interpretation is in error. That is the major reason I could never be a Baptist or any other non-orthodox faith adherent.

Yes, its going to be fun. I’ll try to be as general as I can but it’ll be hard to navigate the inevitable questions.

You’re right about Mary. I just have to “re-educate” myself on all this. I’m coming around more and more. As far as the Eucharist, I just keep thinking essentially, "yes the text says this but does Jesus realllyyyy mean this literally? Hard to explain. But like in John 6:63, I need to stop thinking in a carnal, worldly way and believe.

 

[Adonia]

Yes, its going to be fun. I’ll try to be as general as I can but it’ll be hard to navigate the inevitable questions.

You’re right about Mary. I just have to “re-educate” myself on all this. I’m coming around more and more. As far as the Eucharist, I just keep thinking essentially, "yes the text says this but does Jesus realllyyyy mean this literally? Hard to explain. But like in John 6:63, I need to stop thinking in a carnal, worldly way and believe.

I have to laugh at how evangelicals and other non-orthodox Christians just love to denigrate us and that we place Jesus at a low level. Good grief, the Mass is all about Jesus with the main emphasis on the reason he came here - to die for us. As the Church teaches us, we do have the “fullness” of the Christian experience.

Regarding Mother Mary, I just love how some of the converts who appear on the “Journey Home” show on EWTN have put it. They have come to the conclusion that if the Catholic Church is right about everything else, then they just have to have faith that it is right on her too. There are more positives about the doctrine than negatives.

And always remember, our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters never threw her, or the sacramental way of Christianity under the bus either. One of the reason’s my wife said she became drawn to the Catholic faith was because we give the Mother of God great respect and she could relate because she is a mother too.

 

[TheSurvivor]

Yes, its going to be fun. I’ll try to be as general as I can but it’ll be hard to navigate the inevitable questions.

You’re right about Mary. I just have to “re-educate” myself on all this. I’m coming around more and more. As far as the Eucharist, I just keep thinking essentially, "yes the text says this but does Jesus realllyyyy mean this literally? Hard to explain. But like in John 6:63, I need to stop thinking in a carnal, worldly way and believe.

Read about the apostles on the way to Emmaus. Luke 24:13-35

God Love you

 

[Frankenfurter]

It might help for us to know what kind of Baptist she is.

It’s also going to be important to decide how you are going to raise your kids so you guys should agree to agree on that. That will make the discussion less personal and you can look at the faiths objectively together.

One thing I have heard from a priest who was a former Baptist, he said the Catholic faith included everything from his Baptist faith, while the Baptist faith had certain things removed. So the Catholic faith was compatible with his Baptists beleifs. He only had to add things, not take away. He even described the Baptist faith as a wonderful delicious donut, and the Catholic faith as adding the cream filling!

 

[TheSurvivor]

One thing I have heard from a priest who was a former Baptist, he said the Catholic faith included everything from his Baptist faith, while the Baptist faith had certain things removed. So the Catholic faith was compatible with his Baptists beleifs. He only had to add things, not take away. He even described the Baptist faith as a wonderful delicious donut, and the Catholic faith as adding the cream filling!

I highly doubt this priest was correct. His Baptist community probably believed in Sola Scriptura, Once Saved Always Saved, baptism is not necessary(negative), and Sola Fidei. It sounds like he is getting confused with positive vs negative. I can say “you must drink water” (positive), or “you must not neglect to drink water” (negative.) My point being if he said he had to add things, the added things were most likely previously negatively denied. Now, even I am confused with what I am trying to say. I hope I am making somewhat of a coherent thought.

God Bless

 

[Frankenfurter]

I highly doubt this priest was correct. His Baptist community probably believed in Sola Scriptura…
God Bless

So just take that one for example. The Catholic church has the same scripture, but we add tradition, the church doctors, etc… Similarly for the other stuff too. Like Baptism- if it is only for adults with full immersion, then Catholic can have those too, we just add others.

Catholicism is more universal. You do not have to take part in all of it.

 

[TheSurvivor]

So just take that one for example. The Catholic church has the same scripture, but we add tradition, the church doctors, etc… Similarly for the other stuff too. Like Baptism- if it is only for adults with full immersion, then Catholic can have those too, we just add others.

Catholicism is more universal. You do not have to take part in all of it.

Yes, we do have to have faith in everything the Church teaches. One does not have faith if he even disagrees with one teaching.

The Church does not teach Sola Scriptura; therefore, he had to remove this from what he believed in order to have the Catholic Faith.

Anyway, I digress… We are starting to hijack the thread.

 

[Frankenfurter]

Work with me here. This thread is for the benefit of the OP. Perhaps his wife will find some comfort in the approach. It’s not all about logic and facts. We are talking about a family here - that is what’s important.

Drawing hard lines and claiming to be in possession of the truth is what turns so many away from the Catholic faith.

 

[steve_b]

She was Baptist. She loved Jesus.

Taking that point to its conclusion

Jesus put a condition on those who “say” they love Him. John 14:15

You could ask your wife then if the following sounds to her like a suggestion or a command John 6:51-67

There is no question, Jesus wants perfect unity, ZERO division in what He established John 17:20-23

Here is the Baptist Beginnings - Welcome to the Baptist History and …

Jesus doesn’t create heresies, or schisms, thereby dividing the Church He established. Therefore, He did not start the Baptists or any other Protestant denomination no matter the name they call themselves. And in extension, the Holy Spirit didn’t start the Baptists, or any other protestant organization regardless of name, because the HS only teaches what Jesus taught John 16:12-15. I say that because all kinds of people justify their divisions because they say “the HS” told me to do it. The HS isn’t the author of all that confusion and division.

Jesus established the Catholic Church. Here is a snapshot of the 1st 4 centuries. All the internal links are operational #34

You were fortunate to be brought up in Our Lord’s Church. Show your wife the truth of that. Once she sees that, and the fact her own Baptist religion is 100% man made, 1600+ years after Jesus established HIS Church, then pray that her “will” is open to really loving Jesus on His terms not her terms, and return with you to the Catholic Church.

Even if her “will” is NOT to do His “will” but instead remain in her own “will”, you otoh need to do what’s right for your own soul and return to the Catholic Church. **846

**Prayers ascending for both of you **
**

 

[MCGar]

“Why x, y, z? But what about 1, 2, 3?”

“I’m looking into finding the answers but this time from the source not from what people SAY the church teaches. Do you REALLY want to listen to the answer to your questions? If you do then I will email you in detail whichever article or book I find the answer explained in, but I’m not going to debate it because usually in debates people only falsely pretend to want the answer to their questions instead of actually listening to them.”

Usually that’ll shut them up. If I challenge someone, Do you REALLY want to know? Then they hesitate and think on it. Usually it’s too much trouble for them and they have to quite their debate tactics. But if they don’t want to look bad about throwing you a question they aren’t going to listen to the answer about then they’ll say yes and are stuck with getting the information in email or book and the only thing you have to say is, Did you read the book? If they happen to actually read the book you don’t have to be on the defensive if they challenge the book, just be honest. “Well, that opinion doesn’t make sense to me because x, y, z. Can you explain why 1, 2, 3? But that doesn’t convince me.” [enter in your own challenging thoughts on the matter]

See? Don’t be scared, but force yourself and them to be genuine when discussing these things.

 

[ericc]

It’s tough - I hate not having answers for everything (yes, pride ) I believe the usual Protestant answer to Ephesians 2:10 is something along the lines of “God did create us for good works - we’re here to love others and do His will but that doesn’t save us.” I believe that’s the official spiel. Likewise with James: “A true, saving faith will inevitably result in good works. These good works are the fruit which give evidence of the new life inside, an outward manifestation of your salvation.”

I’d love the list you have! Especially audio and video recordings (they give me something to listen to at work). Thanks!

How about telling the Mrs that you missed Jesus, Jesus as in the Eucharist? You were commanded to eat his body else you have no life? And the inability to confess your sins, might have piled up mile high by now. You need assurance that they are forgiven. Your Mrs will understand that these bring comfort to you.

Step 1. Put your foot back into the Church
Step 2 Get her foot in.

You may wish to look at Peter Kreeft’s video on you tube Why I am a Catholic

youtube.com/watch?v=qAu5VL6mImA. He was a convert too. Short answer: because it is true.

 

[MaximusBBS]

I have a similar but opposite experience. I grew up in Southern Baptist and non-denominational churches… we moved frequently and were never tied to a denomination, we would visit churches in the new area and my parents picked based on the Pastor’s exposition of scripture.

After college and living on my own, my parents moved away when dad retired, and I continued going to the church they had gone to in the area, eventually got in with a “small group”, and we frequently met in an apartment, where one of the roomates was Catholic… she would often join in on our Bible studies and discussions, and even came to our church a few times after going to the earlier Mass. I was “warned” about her being Catholic but was “interested” anyway.

We continued to get to know each other and I decided I was interested enough that I should learn some about this whole Catholic thing. Everything I could find made sense, all the teachings had Scriptural reference, so we got married, and agreed we would both just go to 2 churches… I went to mass with her and she went to church with me. As time wore on I continued to be more convinced of the overall truth of the Catholic church and eventually joined RCIA, and now am a Catholic… who woulda thought?!

There was an article I read recently that said (jokingly I suppose) if you want to raise a great practicing Catholic, then raise your child as a committed protestant and have them marry a Catholic… Extremely high number of adult conversions, and some of the Church’s most active members are marriage based.

My point to the above is focus on what your churches have in COMMON (a lot), explain church teachings with scripture reference (Catechism states X, with reference Bible Verse Y). Remember most protestants don’t care much what a pope or “Saint” said 500 years ago, but they can’t argue with Scripture (interpretation thereof perhaps, but at least not the words themselves)

Incidentally I’d consulted long hours with my dad both during courtship and during my conversion and he was extremely supportive throughout… in fact I think if he were younger and a bit less invested in his current church he may even consider conversion…

One thing I have heard from a priest who was a former Baptist, he said the Catholic faith included everything from his Baptist faith, while the Baptist faith had certain things removed. So the Catholic faith was compatible with his Baptists beleifs. He only had to add things, not take away. He even described the Baptist faith as a wonderful delicious donut, and the Catholic faith as adding the cream filling!

This is exactly my experience… The Catholic church has the same core teaching, just with MUCH more depth and history.

Yes, we do have to have faith in everything the Church teaches. One does not have faith if he even disagrees with one teaching.

The Church does not teach Sola Scriptura; therefore, he had to remove this from what he believed in order to have the Catholic Faith.

The first time I ever heard of Sola Scriptura was from Catholics explaining why it wasn’t correct. I’ve talked to my dad (an ordained Deacon at his Southern Baptist church) about this “doctrine”, and he agrees that the basic premise of “Sola Scriptura” is nonsense.

An uncle of mine often posts things on Facebook that tend to be anti-Catholic, but rarely properly express actual Catholic doctrine… my dad was talking to his Pastor about these common misconceptions and why it is that some protestant Pastors feel the need to reiterate this misinformation, and his Pastor made a comment that he had been taught that growing up, but as he studied the Catholic faith he could find nothing to disagree with, and likewise didn’t understand the animosity.