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Elizium23
Guest
Don’t worry, this will all be outdated advice after next year’s Extraordinary Synod on the family. Perhaps they will make it all better for you.
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jmcrae
Guest
They’re going to repeal Christ’s teachings on marriage?
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Elizium23
Guest
According to trusted canonists, denying the Eucharist to remarried Catholics is a discipline, not doctrine. I don’t know about reception into the Church.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Riiiiiight. Keep holding onto that.
Those who think Pope Francis is the “hope and change” Obama of the Church are in for a surprise.
But if your advice is to wait until the Church changes next year. Ok. But remember that next year when it doesn’t happen.
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Elizium23
Guest
Trusted pundits offer their opinions:
This Is Why We Have Canon 428
This Is Why We Have Canon 428
Brother JR on Catholic Answers Forums
So I am sorry, but as much as traditionalists and conservatives like to think that the Church is an unchanging thing that cannot be touched by the Holy Father, there is a very real possibility that the current Pope could alter this discipline, and he has every authority to do so.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Trusted pundits. ok well I’m sure that it is a go then!
I would urge you to look at to how the Church is currently handling this issue in Germany. I don’t think the winds of change will blow your way. But you can always have your own opinon.
It is however dangerous to give advice NOT based on the current situation and teaching of the Church based on your misinformed opinion that it might change.
Can’t you see how that is not only intellectually dishonest but also spiritually as well.
The Church has spoken. Until it speaks again we should be obedient.
You know what you say about assuming?
If Pope Francis has taught us anything it is that people are being made fools of by trying to claim a direction the Church is going. And as for HUGE changes like this. That is quite unlikely in the first hundred years after a major council.
No one brought “Traditionalists” into it except you. Which kind of tells where your bias leans.
I think it best to follow the CHurch don’t you?
As for Brother JReducation. I have read some of his posts on here and think he is quite on point. But I also see many people bending what he says to their own views and end up on almost the opposite side of what he is saying. The same way as they do with Pope Francis.
From what I have read of Bro. I would gather he would take issue with not only your thinking but being cited and called a pundit.
Perhaps he can comment for himself.
Pope Francis has made “pundits” into the biggest jokes around.
Claim him all you want but Pope Francis is
A) humble and
B) Catholic.
C) Not your personal representative to the political aspect of the Church.
He is also bound by the Church as is marriage. Which I don’t think you fully understand. It is hard to get more dogmatic than how the Church views marraige.
He is not a political figure, he is not “elected” by the people to do their will or what they think is right. Which is why pundits and others who have hijacked him for their own are not
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jmcrae
Guest
It has always been forbidden under the New Covenant for a man to be married to more than one wife, and it has always been forbidden under both the Old and New Covenants for a woman to be married to more than one husband.
Jesus’ teaching on marriage in Matthew 19 is plain that divorce does not actually end a marriage; it only allows the husband and wife to operate independently from a legal point of view; ie: they can have separate bank accounts and separate living quarters. But they are still husband and wife to each other; that part can’t change - and He makes it crystal clear that if they take up with a second wife or second husband, they are committing the sin of adultery - unless the original marriage is null, which is for the Marriage Tribunal to discern.
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Elizium23
Guest
I am done debating with you as I find your tone extremely condescending and you have mistaken me and my opinions for someone else entirely, so stuff it.
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jmcrae
Guest
I suspect that what they will “open up” is that Catholics married outside the Church, when it is the first marriage for both parties, will be considered to be validly married, and that those are the people who will be restored to full communion - because that would actually make sense in terms of the Holy Tradition, and the customs followed by the Apostles - and it’s the only situation I can think of where it’s a matter of discipline that they are currently excommunicated, rather than a matter of God’s law.
Not people in second marriages.
Not people in second marriages.
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His_helpmeet
Guest
Just to add my two cents to the matter:
- A declaration of nullity is required on HIS part because without it you would be living in a state of mortal sin. He would still be considered validly married to his first wife, so you and he would be committing adultery. It’s routine procedure for the Church to refuse RCIA to a person in an irregular marriage (i.e. one spouse, either the one wanting to convert or the other one, has been married previously and the marriage has not been declared invalid) until a declaration of nullity is granted. There is no guarantee that he would be given a declaration of nullity, depending on the circumstances of his situation. Until such a declaration is granted, you would be obliged to live as brother and sister (i.e. no “marital privileges”, if you get my drift) or else you would not be able to receive the sacraments. This becomes even more difficult if he receives a negative (i.e. marriage valid) decision from the tribunal. Effectively, at that point, you would have two options - live as brother and sister until the death of his first wife, or live separately. (Killing his ex so that you can validly marry him does NOT count - this makes your marriage invalid.)
- In terms of going to Communion, I cannot see that Church law would be relaxed regarding this. Going to Communion in a state of mortal sin is a grave sacrilege. If a person in an irregular marriage is exercising his/her marital privileges with his/her spouse, that person is guilty of adultery, and may therefore not be admitted to Communion due to the fact that he/she is living in a state of mortal sin.
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ShawneeO
Guest
Hello,
I’d like to thank those of you who took the time to craft a thoughtful message. I appreciate your intentions and goodwill.
I’m happy to say that a family friend is going to enroll me in the RCIA program in his parish (1 hour away) and he is also going to assist my fiance in beginning the annulment process. I have been praying about this matter for the last 8-10 months and I truly feel like the Lord heard my prayers.
I look forward to learning more about this faith and inviting Christ into our home.
Thank you all again,
Shawna
I’d like to thank those of you who took the time to craft a thoughtful message. I appreciate your intentions and goodwill.
I’m happy to say that a family friend is going to enroll me in the RCIA program in his parish (1 hour away) and he is also going to assist my fiance in beginning the annulment process. I have been praying about this matter for the last 8-10 months and I truly feel like the Lord heard my prayers.
I look forward to learning more about this faith and inviting Christ into our home.
Thank you all again,
Shawna
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
No problem!
While I am sure it is disappointing the wedding will not happen in 4 months. You are beginning a journey that could be great.
SInce you wish to be Catholic it is important that you ARE Catholic. Since there is no annulment yet you must act as if your fiancee is still married.
Again, I know that can be disappointing but in the end it can be worth it!
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MJJean
Guest
Shawna, I was a bit surprised when I read your post. I am in an “irregular marriage” and had no problem beginning RCIA. I cannot be Confirmed until my first marriage is annulled, but other than that there haven’t been any problems.
I am happy that you found a priest willing to work with you to get your fiance started on the annulment process and I hope for a favorable outcome for the two of you and any future children.
As someone going through the annulment process I advise your fiance to get a certified copy of his original marriage certificate and a certified copy of his divorce papers as soon as possible. If there was any counseling or police reports related to the marriage he will need those, as well.
If your Archdiocese has the annulment paperwork on their website he should download it and get started on it because there are a lot of questions and he will want to really think about things that happened, remember them as clearly as possible, and he’ll likely write and re-write until he is satisfied.
Also, start looking for at least 5 witnesses who knew him and his ex-wife before the marriage and during the early part of the marriage who would be willing to be contacted by the Tribunal for a written questionnaire and/or phone or in person interview. He’ll want people who both have knowledge of the relationship and marriage and who are going to be able to clearly answer the questions of the tribunal and return the questionnaire in a timely manner.
When I applied for my annulment I went to the priests office for my first appointment and had all of the paperwork downloaded, filled out, printed out and ready to go with the copies of marriage and divorce records I needed. All witnesses were aware of what I was doing and wiling to be interviewed on paper, in person, or by phone. All we had to do was sign the papers and send them to the tribunal. Saved a lot of time.
I am happy that you found a priest willing to work with you to get your fiance started on the annulment process and I hope for a favorable outcome for the two of you and any future children.
As someone going through the annulment process I advise your fiance to get a certified copy of his original marriage certificate and a certified copy of his divorce papers as soon as possible. If there was any counseling or police reports related to the marriage he will need those, as well.
If your Archdiocese has the annulment paperwork on their website he should download it and get started on it because there are a lot of questions and he will want to really think about things that happened, remember them as clearly as possible, and he’ll likely write and re-write until he is satisfied.
Also, start looking for at least 5 witnesses who knew him and his ex-wife before the marriage and during the early part of the marriage who would be willing to be contacted by the Tribunal for a written questionnaire and/or phone or in person interview. He’ll want people who both have knowledge of the relationship and marriage and who are going to be able to clearly answer the questions of the tribunal and return the questionnaire in a timely manner.
When I applied for my annulment I went to the priests office for my first appointment and had all of the paperwork downloaded, filled out, printed out and ready to go with the copies of marriage and divorce records I needed. All witnesses were aware of what I was doing and wiling to be interviewed on paper, in person, or by phone. All we had to do was sign the papers and send them to the tribunal. Saved a lot of time.
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OurLadyPray4US
Guest
Shawna, I’m so happy for you. I’m about to go to the chapel for perpetual adoration, I will add you and your fiance to my prayer intentions. You and your fiance will be prayed for, in front of our Lord in the Eucharist!
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