Want to Quit: Advice to move forward?

[ethereality]

My expectations were dashed rather terribly, as instead of physical healing over Christmas or New Year’s, I got the flu. (Or a bad cold that lasted several days that had me bed-ridden. Today seems to be the last day.)

I spent several hours researching St. Teresa of Calcutta’s miracles, and was dismayed to find the evidence does not dispel reasonable doubt: How much did the medicine involved help? What is the natural rate of recovery for these ailments? The events appear too remote to check any further. It appears reasonable for a Christian to believe the Church, but it also appears reasonable for non-Christians to withhold judgment or attribute it to modern medicine, lacking all the details.

Given God’s silence and my suffering, I find myself with cognitive dissonance. Indeed, my suffering even appears to me correlated with being Christian and faithful, as if whatever is responsible for my reality is punishing me, trying to get me to stop. Is Mohammedanism correct? It certainly doesn’t appear to be; I’ve read the Quran and was impressed by how threatening it was, but maybe it makes more sense with proper interpretation, like the Bible.

My problem is worse, though: I think I don’t believe the Eucharist at my church is Jesus’ Body and Blood any more. Perhaps the priest wasn’t validly ordained? Declarations of marriage nullity demonstrate that initial impairments can prevent the Sacrament of Matrimony from validly occurring, and similarly the Sacrament of Penance “doesn’t work” if the person isn’t truly sorry, e.g. deliberately doesn’t confess some sin. Is there something that can prevent a valid ordination? Clearly the SSPX extreme traditionalists think so, but their arguments are silly for being hyper-literal. How do we know the priest has been validly ordained, and that what he’s offering is in fact the Eucharist?

I don’t want to receive it any more until I have reason to think it’s actually Jesus’ Body. It seems sacrilegious to do otherwise. I also don’t want to continue going to Mass: I’m tired of the liturgical abuses (“let’s repeat the Lord’s Prayer in multiple languages! let’s say ‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy New Year’ instead of ‘the Lord’s Peace be with you’!”) and the bad music (Filipinos singing in Tagalog with rusted guitar strings, Japanese playing guitar music poorly adapted to an electric organ). It’s a frustrating waste of 60-80 minutes when God remains silent and apparently absent. It also appears to me to be bad to persuade youth to believe there’s a loving God who’ll help them if God isn’t actually there helping us.

So it seems better for me to quit going to church, to quit wasting time praying and studying Christian events. One reason my life is so bad now is because of how much time I’ve spent learning and practicing the faith. My pastor doesn’t speak English and my Japanese is not adequate for such a deep discussion, and he seems to regard it as a job rather than a calling, so I don’t think trying to talk with him about it would be a good idea.

Do you have any advice? I am thinking to try going back to a psychiatrist and taking drugs to deal with depression – the thought of living ~50 more years with this defective body is depressing.

 

[fred_conty]

I feel terrible that you are going thru so much pain. I have never had that much pain, both physical and spiritual. I really wish I could do or say something to help you with it. But I will put you in my prayer.

The doubts you have about the priest actually confecting the body of Christ can be understood. But if I were you, I would know that even if the priest per chance didn’t do it, I know that Jesus would see to it that all the graces assigned to it would be forthcoming to me and others. Because much of the grace is a response to our own heart and love. And I know that He would give me as much love and grace as if his body were actually present. I truely believe that. This understanding might help you too.

May the Lord bless you and yours.

 

[Vico]

My expectations were dashed rather terribly, as instead of physical healing over Christmas or New Year’s, I got the flu. (Or a bad cold that lasted several days that had me bed-ridden. Today seems to be the last day.)

I spent several hours researching St. Teresa of Calcutta’s miracles, and was dismayed to find the evidence does not dispel reasonable doubt: How much did the medicine involved help? What is the natural rate of recovery for these ailments? The events appear too remote to check any further. It appears reasonable for a Christian to believe the Church, but it also appears reasonable for non-Christians to withhold judgment or attribute it to modern medicine, lacking all the details.

Given God’s silence and my suffering, I find myself with cognitive dissonance. Indeed, my suffering even appears to me correlated with being Christian and faithful, as if whatever is responsible for my reality is punishing me, trying to get me to stop. Is Mohammedanism correct? It certainly doesn’t appear to be; I’ve read the Quran and was impressed by how threatening it was, but maybe it makes more sense with proper interpretation, like the Bible.

My problem is worse, though: I think I don’t believe the Eucharist at my church is Jesus’ Body and Blood any more. Perhaps the priest wasn’t validly ordained? Declarations of marriage nullity demonstrate that initial impairments can prevent the Sacrament of Matrimony from validly occurring, and similarly the Sacrament of Penance “doesn’t work” if the person isn’t truly sorry, e.g. deliberately doesn’t confess some sin. Is there something that can prevent a valid ordination? Clearly the SSPX extreme traditionalists think so, but their arguments are silly for being hyper-literal. How do we know the priest has been validly ordained, and that what he’s offering is in fact the Eucharist?

I don’t want to receive it any more until I have reason to think it’s actually Jesus’ Body. It seems sacrilegious to do otherwise. I also don’t want to continue going to Mass: I’m tired of the liturgical abuses (“let’s repeat the Lord’s Prayer in multiple languages! let’s say ‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy New Year’ instead of ‘the Lord’s Peace be with you’!”) and the bad music (Filipinos singing in Tagalog with rusted guitar strings, Japanese playing guitar music poorly adapted to an electric organ). It’s a frustrating waste of 60-80 minutes when God remains silent and apparently absent. It also appears to me to be bad to persuade youth to believe there’s a loving God who’ll help them if God isn’t actually there helping us.

So it seems better for me to quit going to church, to quit wasting time praying and studying Christian events. One reason my life is so bad now is because of how much time I’ve spent learning and practicing the faith. My pastor doesn’t speak English and my Japanese is not adequate for such a deep discussion, and he seems to regard it as a job rather than a calling, so I don’t think trying to talk with him about it would be a good idea.

Do you have any advice? I am thinking to try going back to a psychiatrist and taking drugs to deal with depression – the thought of living ~50 more years with this defective body is depressing.

I would request anointing of the sick. That brings the Holy Spirit especially to help with strengthening the spirit against sicknesses both physical and mental.

We certainly are called to suffer with Christ and for our sins, as the Catechism states:

1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man."84

 

[ethereality]

Thanks. I might, Vico. I found this verse helpful, or at least moving, for perhaps the same reason:
Micah 7:9:

The Lord’s displeasure I must bear, I that have sinned against him, till at last he admits my plea, and grants redress. Out into the light he will bring me, to find him faithful still.

It seemed to make sense of my situation and be an expression of faith. The problem is that I have been to confession and am not aware of any continuing sin in my life to deserve this suffering.

 

[Vico]

Thanks. I might, Vico. I found this verse helpful, or at least moving, for perhaps the same reason: It seemed to make sense of my situation and be an expression of faith. The problem is that I have been to confession and am not aware of any continuing sin in my life to deserve this suffering.

Sometimes it is chronic. Also remember from the Gospel about the man born blind:

John 9

1 [a]As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth. 2 **His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. 4 We have to do the works of the one who sent me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” 6 When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva, and smeared the clay on his eyes, 7 and said to him, “Go wash[c] in the Pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed, and came back able to see.

8 His neighbors and those who had seen him earlier as a beggar said, “Isn’t this the one who used to sit and beg?” 9 Some said, “It is,” but others said, “No, he just looks like him.” He said, “I am.” 10 So they said to him, “[So] how were your eyes opened?” 11 He replied, “The man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and told me, ‘Go to Siloam and wash.’ So I went there and washed and was able to see.” 12 And they said to him, “Where is he?” He said, “I don’t know.”

13 They brought the one who was once blind to the Pharisees. 14 Now Jesus had made clay[d] and opened his eyes on a sabbath. 15 So then the Pharisees also asked him how he was able to see. He said to them, “He put clay on my eyes, and I washed, and now I can see.” 16 So some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, because he does not keep the sabbath.” [But] others said, “How can a sinful man do such signs?” And there was a division among them. 17 So they said to the blind man again, “What do you have to say about him, since he opened your eyes?” He said, “He is a prophet.”

18 Now the Jews did not believe that he had been blind and gained his sight until they summoned the parents of the one who had gained his sight. 19 They asked them, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How does he now see?” 20 His parents answered and said, “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. 21 We do not know how he sees now, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him, he is of age; he can speak for himself.” 22 [e]His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone acknowledged him as the Messiah, he would be expelled from the synagogue. 23 For this reason his parents said, “He is of age; question him.”

24 So a second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, “Give God the praise![f] We know that this man is a sinner.” 25 He replied, “If he is a sinner, I do not know. One thing I do know is that I was blind and now I see.” 26 So they said to him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?” 27 He answered them, “I told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?” 28 They ridiculed him and said, “You are that man’s disciple; we are disciples of Moses! 29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but we do not know where this one is from.” 30 The man answered and said to them, “This is what is so amazing, that you do not know where he is from, yet he opened my eyes. 31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if one is devout and does his will, he listens to him. 32 [g]It is unheard of that anyone ever opened the eyes of a person born blind. 33 If this man were not from God, he would not be able to do anything.” 34 They answered and said to him, “You were born totally in sin, and are you trying to teach us?” Then they threw him out.

35 When Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, he found him and said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36 He answered and said, “Who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have seen him and the one speaking with you is he.” 38 He said, “I do believe, Lord,” and he worshiped him. 39 [h]Then Jesus said, “I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see might see, and those who do see might become blind.”

40 Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, “Surely we are not also blind, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains.

**

 

[Viki63]

Dear brother,
I am sorry you are going through hard times, and your faith is shaken. I would suggest that you continue going to mass and receiving the Lord’s body.
Why would you think your priest is not validly ordained? Are you living in Japan? If not, can you find another Catholic church nearby?
If you doubt the priest, you could talk to your bishop about it. I can’t imagine that any priest not validly ordained would be entrusted with a parish. That should be easy to check.

It’s unfortunate that you are basing your belief on the validity of Mother Teresa’s miracles. I know nothing about them, but I notice that one doctor dismissed the woman’s healing by saying “it is not possible to believe in miracles,” which is certainly circular reasoning. (saying, this was not a miracle because miracles don’t exist.)
I do know there are long standing miracles that have been studied at length, for example the miracle at Lanciano, and St. Juan Diego’s tilma with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. That tilma should have decayed after about 30 years, and is still here about 500 years later, with an image which has been studied and found to be not painted or a photo, but inexplicably lain over the fibers.

Ask God to reveal himself to you, and trust him.
God bless.

.

 

[ethereality]

Vico, I would disagree with your interpretation of John’s Gospel to indicate chronic pain (Jesus healed him), but I don’t want to argue.

can you find another Catholic church nearby?

No. Japan is about 1% Christian. In a city of 300,000 people there is one church and roughly three Protestant ecclesial communities.

It’s unfortunate that you are basing your belief on the validity of Mother Teresa’s miracles.

It isn’t, and I don’t think I implied that it was. I merely was looking for additional reasons to believe. Catholic Answers says recent miracles are additional reasons to believe, evidence the Church is correct. They are apparently wrong, because the data is insufficient.

I am having thoughts like, “God doesn’t care that much about me – if He did, He would talk to me, communicate with me in a way appropriate for me.” Instead, nothing. I can understand this behavior from the Creator of the Universe and King, but not someone who is my adoptive Father. Consequently, atheism has more explanatory power than the Catholic Church, because atheism explains suffering, whereas the Catholic Church fails to explain God’s silence and absence, which is a bigger problem than suffering if God is our Father.

 

[Rosarydevotion]

Sometimes God withholds consolation to strenghthen perseverance, endurance and faith. God also needs to purify us and He will do it in this life or the next (purgatory). Think about when St Paul says he is running the race. Races are not easy and involve suffering. It may help you to read up on the saints, many of them suffered tremendously. I’m suffering a great deal too, so I feel your pain. Keep going…I will pray for you. God bless.

 

[Vico]

Vico, I would disagree with your interpretation of John’s Gospel to indicate chronic pain (Jesus healed him), but I don’t want to argue…

I meant to show what Jesus taught that all suffering is not the result of something that someone does, but sometimes to show the works of God. Also that is may occur for many years before healing.