Wanting childless marriage, considering leaving Church over it

[CharlieDoe]

So,

The diocese gave me the names and addresses of a number of counseling practices in my area. Most didn’t offer appointment times that worked with my work schedule, but I did find one about an hour away, and will have my first meeting with them on Monday.

There is a larger university about an hour-and-a-half way with a large, active Catholic student center. They offer confession this afternoon, and something called “Spiritual Direction,” which apparently gives you the opportunity to talk about issues like the ones I’m thinking of. Though I’m 33, I do still feel like a college student, being fresh out of my third stretch of grad school and all.

I’m going there to make my first confession since childhood today, and see where things go from there. I do like the local parish I go to, but for this I’d like a little more anonymity, and I don’t get the feeling my local parish priest would quite understand my issues.

I guess we’ll see how this goes…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

So,

The diocese gave me the names and addresses of a number of counseling practices in my area. Most didn’t offer appointment times that worked with my work schedule, but I did find one about an hour away, and will have my first meeting with them on Monday.

There is a larger university about an hour-and-a-half way with a large, active Catholic student center. They offer confession this afternoon, and something called “Spiritual Direction,” which apparently gives you the opportunity to talk about issues like the ones I’m thinking of. Though I’m 33, I do still feel like a college student, being fresh out of my third stretch of grad school and all.

I’m going there to make my first confession since childhood today, and see where things go from there. I do like the local parish I go to, but for this I’d like a little more anonymity, and I don’t get the feeling my local parish priest would quite understand my issues.

I guess we’ll see how this goes…

Good job! Sounds like you are active in solving this issue.

 

[Magickman]

My own powereful feelings about needing to remain childfree may be an important factor in my also remaining a lifelong unattached bachelor.

Family life with a spouse and children is a paramount goal for most people. But, not for everyone.

There are other paths in lfe that my be followed. Fulfillment may be found in life, even without children.

 

[CharlieDoe]

My own powereful feelings about needing to remain childfree may be an important factor in my also remaining a lifelong unattached bachelor.

Family life with a spouse and children is a paramount goal for most people. But, not for everyone.

There are other paths in lfe that my be followed. Fulfillment may be found in life, even without children.

Yes, except that I do want romantic companionship. Seems to me the Church is offering 3 choices. 1) Become a ‘family man.’ 2) Remain celibate for the rest of your life, or 3) Wait until you are a senior citizen to marry.

Although I suppose one can also seek out an infertile woman. Now there’s a dating-site niche; Infertile Catholic Singles.

 

[oldgraymare2]

Hi again Charlie,

Thanks for keeping us updated.

I wish you all of the very best, and I hope that everything goes well for you.

 

[polki]

It seems that the difference between you and your father is that you recognize the effects of abuse and he did not. That ought to give you hope that you would be able to be a better father than him, because you already recognize that you have a temper and therefore could work to control it. Plus you have gone to counseling already, which maybe he did not have that opportunity.
I would agree that you are not ready to have children at this time, but I wouldn’t necessarily rule out children completely in the future.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, except that I do want romantic companionship. Seems to me the Church is offering 3 choices. 1) Become a ‘family man.’ 2) Remain celibate for the rest of your life, or 3) Wait until you are a senior citizen to marry.

Although I suppose one can also seek out an infertile woman. Now there’s a dating-site niche; Infertile Catholic Singles.

Why do you worry about what the Church will allow you to do or insist that you do, when none of the things that concern you are even things that God has put before you as a trial yet? It reminds me of the Pickles cartoon in which Earl and Opal are out walking. He says to his wife: “You know, most of the things you worry about never happen.” In the middle panel, she steps into a “puddle” which turns out to be a deep hole, into which she plunges. He bends down to look at her in her predicament: “And most of what happens, you never worried about.”

If you want a spouse, seek someone who makes you a better version of yourself and makes you want to be a more faithful servant of God through your relationship. Let the other questions be answered as they arise and after you have considered them with your future spouse.

Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil. Matt. 6:34

 

[GEddie]

Why do you worry about what the Church will allow you to do or insist that you do, when none of the things that concern you are even things that God has put before you as a trial yet?

In all fairness, if one is actively looking for a life partner, it is prudent to consider what it will mean to find one.

Although “happy go lucky” might be the stereotypical ideal, thinking serious stuff out ahead makes more sense in things that are major life factors. Else one might feel “stuck” when issues they have not considered come to a head.

At least he is trying to follow the Church in his life, despite the emotional damage to be overcome. And since the Church does highly value “openness to children,” this is something he needs to consider before continuing to seek someone.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Xantippe]

In all fairness, if one is actively looking for a life partner, it is prudent to consider what it will mean to find one.

Although “happy go lucky” might be the stereotypical ideal, thinking serious stuff out ahead makes more sense in things that are major life factors. Else one might feel “stuck” when issues they have not considered come to a head.

At least he is trying to follow the Church in his life, despite the emotional damage to be overcome. And since the Church does highly value “openness to children,” this is something he needs to consider before continuing to seek someone.

ICXC NIKA.

A lot of things that sound TERRIBLE are easier to manage when one knows who one is going to be managing it with.

When I was a young Protestant, one of the things that held me back from converting was that I didn’t quite see my way through to the Church’s teaching on contraception.

Then I met my future husband and realized, “Hey, it doesn’t sound like it would be so bad to have a bunch of kids with him!” Once I knew who I’d be following the Church’s teachings with, it didn’t sound that bad.

Maybe the question the OP needs to ask is, can I manage to have kids and be a good father with this particular woman?, not can I have kids, period?

 

[Emily2014]

I cannot pretend to know how you feel, as for each one of us the pain and grief, fears etc are both unique and deeply personal.

You will however be very much in my prayers from now on.
God bless you.

 

[CharlieDoe]

In all fairness, if one is actively looking for a life partner, it is prudent to consider what it will mean to find one.

Although “happy go lucky” might be the stereotypical ideal, thinking serious stuff out ahead makes more sense in things that are major life factors. Else one might feel “stuck” when issues they have not considered come to a head.

At least he is trying to follow the Church in his life, despite the emotional damage to be overcome. And since the Church does highly value “openness to children,” this is something he needs to consider before continuing to seek someone.

ICXC NIKA.

Thanks GEddie. Those are exactly my thoughts here. I want to make peace with this issue before starting to date again. To me, To start dating or a relationship with a woman and then spring this on her would be dishonest and hurtful.

 

[CharlieDoe]

A lot of things that sound TERRIBLE are easier to manage when one knows who one is going to be managing it with.

When I was a young Protestant, one of the things that held me back from converting was that I didn’t quite see my way through to the Church’s teaching on contraception.

Then I met my future husband and realized, “Hey, it doesn’t sound like it would be so bad to have a bunch of kids with him!” Once I knew who I’d be following the Church’s teachings with, it didn’t sound that bad.

Maybe the question the OP needs to ask is, can I manage to have kids and be a good father with this particular woman?, not can I have kids, period?

This is another important part of the issue for me. I’m originally from the Midwest and I now work at a Protestant-affiliated university in the Bible Belt South. Catholics are a small minority here, and, those that I do know are much more serious about their faith than where I’m originally from.

A lot of the eligible women here are into one Protestant or ‘non-denominational’ church or another. If I meet such a woman and don’t want to join her church (and, frankly, I really don’t), I’m going to have to make a convincing case for my own. And I can’t do that if I’m not ‘walking the walk.’

 

[EasterJoy]

In all fairness, if one is actively looking for a life partner, it is prudent to consider what it will mean to find one.

Although “happy go lucky” might be the stereotypical ideal, thinking serious stuff out ahead makes more sense in things that are major life factors. Else one might feel “stuck” when issues they have not considered come to a head.

At least he is trying to follow the Church in his life, despite the emotional damage to be overcome. And since the Church does highly value “openness to children,” this is something he needs to consider before continuing to seek someone.

ICXC NIKA.

I’m not sure how it is “trying to follow the Church” when you are considering whether you are going to leave the Church because the Church teaches something that *might *be too hard *if *it comes to that. If the Lord says in the red letters not to get too wound up about problems that you do not have yet, I’d hardly dismiss that as a “stereotypical ideal.” We are also told to pray for our daily bread. As C.S. Lewis pointed out, we don’t get a lot of grace to overcome problems that we don’t have.

The OP does have some real problems that he is prudent and courageous to want to deal with rather than ignore. Making decisions that are not yet his to make and may never be his to make are not among those problems, that is all I am trying to say. His fear of not having those problems worked out in advance and his fear of dating without having his life’s answers worked out, for instance, is among today’s problems. Those are real problems, and those are causing him immediate suffering. Going forward without the answers he wants requires faith and fearlessness. Those are no small things. It may be, however, that what he needs to develop is an openness to go forward without knowing exactly where he is being lead, in spite of his understandable fears.

Thanks GEddie. Those are exactly my thoughts here. I want to make peace with this issue before starting to date again. To me, To start dating or a relationship with a woman and then spring this on her would be dishonest and hurtful.

It is not dishonest or hurtful to have issues of your own to work out before you start dating. I would hope, at least, that you will not feel a woman you date is dishonest or hurtful if you find you couldn’t predict everything about what her faith meant to her! I hope she is not accused of dishonesty for failing to disclose all her hang-ups and fears within the first three dates, either! It is necessary to disclose these things as you progress towards marriage, but you don’t have to have all the “right” answers in your pocket before you ever ask someone out, and you don’t have to feel certain about how you will cope with every problem you will realistically have to face. (You cannot be certain, realize that.)

More to the point, I have lived long enough to watch many people’s issues change entirely between the prospect of dating someone they’d seriously considering marrying and after they start dating a person like that. Reality changes our perceptions radically and in unpredictable ways. You don’t know what you’re going to think about this after you start dating, simply because so many people change their attitudes entirely when they meet someone they want to marry. I’ve seen it again and again. So while it is prudent to think about these things, you should not expect God will give you the answers you think you need. It is understandable that you want them, but you may not actually need them, and in any event it is more likely than not that you will not get them. You might not believe the answers if you got them, besides. If your fear of the wrong answer is your problem, having the right answer under your nose will not cure you of your fear.

Get ready for some surprises. The only thing that would surprise me is if you don’t get any.

 

[Xantippe]

This is another important part of the issue for me. I’m originally from the Midwest and I now work at a Protestant-affiliated university in the Bible Belt South. Catholics are a small minority here, and, those that I do know are much more serious about their faith than where I’m originally from.

That’s very similar to the situation in our area–we might just be neighbors.

A lot of the eligible women here are into one Protestant or ‘non-denominational’ church or another. If I meet such a woman and don’t want to join her church (and, frankly, I really don’t), I’m going to have to make a convincing case for my own. And I can’t do that if I’m not ‘walking the walk.’

 

[Lourdes16]

Still, I hope I can fall in love with someone and marry, and find happiness, love, and security in a relationship as an adult that I never really had as a kid. But, if that means being obliged to raise a family, it’s not worth it to me. To me, families are capsules of conflict, paid, and fear. I want to be part of a couple, but not a family.

Forgive me if someone already asked this, or if the OP addressed it further, but I would ask why you want to get married in the first place? It sounds like you don’t have a woman you are desperately in love with, so the urgency for marriage is not immediate. And while marrying out of loneliness or to make up for past insufficiencies is altogether human, it is not the noblest or most fulfilling route. To make a marriage work you cannot just receive, you have to be zealous to give everything you have! Have you prayed about the calling to be a husband? Since it sounds like you have much emotional turmoil to sort through, you might not want to be so intent upon marrying. There are other beautiful vocations that could bring you happiness.

 

[GEddie]

Forgive me if someone already asked this, or if the OP addressed it further, but I would ask why you want to get married in the first place? It sounds like you don’t have a woman you are desperately in love with, so the urgency for marriage is not immediate. And while marrying out of loneliness or to make up for past insufficiencies is altogether human, it is not the noblest or most fulfilling route. To make a marriage work you cannot just receive, you have to be zealous to give everything you have! Have you prayed about the calling to be a husband? Since it sounds like you have much emotional turmoil to sort through, you might not want to be so intent upon marrying. There are other beautiful vocations that could bring you happiness.

If you are actively looking for someone, you should be prepared in your head for what finding someone will mean.

While a life partner is desirable, if you are still conflicted over very basic issues of such a relationship, maybe putting the looking on hold would be smart.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[CharlieDoe]

Given Pope Francis’ recent comments on the beauty of beating children (so long as it’s not on the face, since that would be humiliating), I don’t think I can expect him or the church to be taking the pain of adult survivors of childhood physical abuse and domestic violence seriously.

I was going to wait to the end of the year to see if anything came out of the Synod on the Family, but the way it looks now I’m going to make an appointment to talk with the local Episcopalian pastor ASAP.

 

[CharlieDoe]

Forgive me if someone already asked this, or if the OP addressed it further, but I would ask why you want to get married in the first place? It sounds like you don’t have a woman you are desperately in love with, so the urgency for marriage is not immediate. And while marrying out of loneliness or to make up for past insufficiencies is altogether human, it is not the noblest or most fulfilling route. To make a marriage work you cannot just receive, you have to be zealous to give everything you have! Have you prayed about the calling to be a husband? Since it sounds like you have much emotional turmoil to sort through, you might not want to be so intent upon marrying. There are other beautiful vocations that could bring you happiness.

If I end up having to give up ever having a romantic relationship with a woman again because of my upbringing, would it be alright if I seethe with hatred for my father for the rest of my life?

Or, perhaps we should all pray for more fathers to treat their children like this, so that there would be more tortured souls to funnel into celibate vocations.

 

[Viki63]

If I end up having to give up ever having a romantic relationship with a woman again because of my upbringing, would it be alright if I seethe with hatred for my father for the rest of my life?

Or, perhaps we should all pray for more fathers to treat their children like this, so that there would be more tortured souls to funnel into celibate vocations.

I’m sorry you are dealing with so much pain in your life.
But cynicism is not a healthy reaction to it.
Will be praying for you,

 

[Lourdes16]

If I end up having to give up ever having a romantic relationship with a woman again because of my upbringing, would it be alright if I seethe with hatred for my father for the rest of my life?

Or, perhaps we should all pray for more fathers to treat their children like this, so that there would be more tortured souls to funnel into celibate vocations.

Charlie, you are making yourself seriously miserable. Before you do anything please get professional help and therapy. It’s not our job to keep you hear if you’re intent upon leaving the Church. However, the Episcopalians are also concerned about domestic abuse and violence. Unless you keep things from him, their priest should tell you the same thing: to get your mind and heart in order before you try taking on responsibility for another person.

I did not say you have to give up all romantic possibilities, but if you want a healthy romance you must deal with the ghost of your father and your own hurt. Go to therapy for her, if for nothing else.