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Joe_5859
Guest
“The beauty of beating children”? I think that you must have read something seriously out of context, Charlie. What speech of the Pope are you referring to here?
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Your signature line has to be one of the most coincidentally appropriate responses to a post ever.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I missed that news article. Corporal punishment and child abuse are not synonymous. I am sure that is difficult for the OP to see in light of his tragic childhood experience. The Pope is definitely not encouraging parents to beat their children.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
LOL I didn’t even think of that!
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I agree. But there are those, and even on these boards, who think that any corporal punishment is child abuse. Ever seen a “spanking” thread around here!
I think it goes to his Hispanic heritage. His concept of Fatherhood would be affected by the machismo and corporal environment he grew up in. The idea that one should not hit in the face as a thing of dignity is troublesome though. If I said the same thing in seriousness it is a great bet that in many states CPS would be at my door.
“It is a great thing that I do not hit my children in their face when I beat them, I feel it respects their dignity to do it elsewhere on their bodies…”
“knock knock”
“Oh hey, here you go government, have my kids…”
But this little nugget will be extremely valuable when people talk about this pope being all about mercy and not about rules or justice…
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Notice that the inverse is not true…
It is NOT better to be slapped with a lie than kissed with the truth.
This is telling with regard to the nature of abuse and the prevailing lie that truth must always kiss and play nicely while lies must always slap.
Lies can start out sweet and delicious but end up being abusive and cruel
While truth can appear hard and uncompromising but bear very sweet and wholesome fruit in the end.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I avoid the spanking threads.
I guess I took that part to be the Pope complimenting the father for having that impulse to preserve his children’s dignity more so than an affirmation that striking anywhere other than the face is just peachy.
The Vatican website actually has the full text of the audience on their website already:
w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/documents/papa-francesco_20150204_udienza-generale.html
The whole thing is about fathers being present, patient, and forgiving.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Yeah well, with this pope in particular we do a lot of “I guess I took that part…” A lot don’t we…I avoid the spanking threads.
I guess I took that part to be the Pope complimenting the father for having that impulse to preserve his children’s dignity more so than an affirmation that striking anywhere other than the face is just peachy.
The Vatican website actually has the full text of the audience on their website already:
w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/documents/papa-francesco_20150204_udienza-generale.html
The whole thing is about fathers being present, patient, and forgiving.
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tafan
Guest
Why would you not talk to your Catholic pastor first? Perhaps your understanding is not complete.
We must be open to children when we get married, but that can certainly be contingent on getting past an emotional or mental issue. Its not that different than getting married knowing that you can’t have kids until the woman gets past some sort of medical treatment. In the meantime, you simply have to not use artificial contraception and can use NFP to prevent a pregnancy. If you never get past that point, then as long as you always use NFP, you are “open to children”.
Perhaps I am making it sound like loop-hole. Not my point at all. As I said, talk to a Catholic priest first.
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CharlieDoe
Guest
It’s just that simple, isn’t it?
I view having children as a window into a nightmare I hope I’ve left in my own childhood. I’m NOT willing to rely on Vatican Roulette to about it.
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LSK
Guest
Charlie, you need to educate yourself on NFP. It is so far beyond ‘Vatican roulette’ that even using the term indicates that you have much to learn about how to appreciate your role as a husband and how to use your sexuality in a holy way.
I cannot imagine how difficult your childhood was for you and I can appreciate the scars it left. I think, frankly, that you are wise to avoid becoming a father. Right now, with this kind of history, you would be a lousy father and the world - both Catholic, Protestant and Other - has enough lousy fathers and lousy mothers in it to last until Jesus comes back.
Have you considered getting yourself a strong Catholic Spiritual Advisor?
I cannot imagine how difficult your childhood was for you and I can appreciate the scars it left. I think, frankly, that you are wise to avoid becoming a father. Right now, with this kind of history, you would be a lousy father and the world - both Catholic, Protestant and Other - has enough lousy fathers and lousy mothers in it to last until Jesus comes back.
Have you considered getting yourself a strong Catholic Spiritual Advisor?
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CharlieDoe
Guest
[BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
Frankly, even if that’s the case I have a real problem with trust and authority. I assume any Catholic married man with a large family is someone who beats his children and rules his,wife through terror. I’m sure he would see me as a whiner who just needs to 'be a man ’ and ‘get over it.’
I assume any priest will pastor out of spite, having much the same attitude as above.
I teach at a Protestant college in the Bible Belt South. If there was someone I could speak with quietly and confidentially in another town I might consider it.
Frankly, even if that’s the case I have a real problem with trust and authority. I assume any Catholic married man with a large family is someone who beats his children and rules his,wife through terror. I’m sure he would see me as a whiner who just needs to 'be a man ’ and ‘get over it.’
I assume any priest will pastor out of spite, having much the same attitude as above.
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CharlieDoe
Guest
Additionally I did try to seek out a therapist in the area and the only one that fit my schedule was a social work grad student who, after three months, really could just tell me that thinking about my past was Luke “emotional cutting” (I can agree with that) and that its okay to not want kids.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
That is frustrating. But have you considered a therapist who will do Skype sessions with you? That way, they don’t have to be local. This site, catholictherapists.com/ ,
has an option where you can find a therapist who will do telephone or video sessions with you.
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mommy_k
Guest
Charlie you need to not get too ahead of yourself.
When we pray the Lord’s prayer, we ask God to give us this day our daily bread. Only God knows what the future will hold for you, you just have a vague idea. From your post it seems you are visualizing every negative aspect of your past in relation to your future.
What about today? A lot of stress results from wanting to imagine scenarios before they actually happen. God does not want you to live your life as a victim.Jesus died a criminals death to give us peace, and He certainly knows about abuse.
If you stay close to God and ask Him to show you a path moment by moment in the present, He will equip you, and give you peace.
So today, leave yourself open to meeting a nice girl, and contiinue attending mass and the sacraments without the barriers of your past abuse injecting itself into the relationships. It will be difficult at first, but do this one day at a time with God by your side. This is how God heals.
When we pray the Lord’s prayer, we ask God to give us this day our daily bread. Only God knows what the future will hold for you, you just have a vague idea. From your post it seems you are visualizing every negative aspect of your past in relation to your future.
What about today? A lot of stress results from wanting to imagine scenarios before they actually happen. God does not want you to live your life as a victim.Jesus died a criminals death to give us peace, and He certainly knows about abuse.
If you stay close to God and ask Him to show you a path moment by moment in the present, He will equip you, and give you peace.
So today, leave yourself open to meeting a nice girl, and contiinue attending mass and the sacraments without the barriers of your past abuse injecting itself into the relationships. It will be difficult at first, but do this one day at a time with God by your side. This is how God heals.
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Vico
Guest
I’m not sure of what you mean. I know that there can be no future conditions for a Catholic marriage covenant, else it would be invalid.Canon 1102
- Marriage based on a condition concerning the future cannot be contracted validly.
2. Marriage based on a condition concerning the past or the present is valid or invalid, insofar as the subject matter of the condition exists or not.
3. The condition mentioned in part 2 cannot be placed licitly without the written permission of the local ordinary.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
interesting.
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AussieTrish
Guest
If a person seethes with unhealed anger they are not ready for raising children, and probably not ready for a marriage partner.
Relationships and marriage with a person who has so much anger won’t cope well with the problems that come up in the marriage relationship; and certainly be unable to cope with the many stresses of raising children.
It would be my thought that you need to deal with your anger, and find forgiveness.
The forgiveness is necessary for your own well-being and happiness even before considering relationships.
Can people change? I don’t know. Not, I think, but they can modify how they think and relate.
No one is perfect.
Yes the treatment you received as a child was awful, but you are still allowing it to continue to torture you. The prospect of a happy loved childhood was stolen from you forever. That is appalling. However you are not the sum of your childhood as you have already proven in some ways…
I’m not sure I’d want to risk children under the circumstances, and probably not want to risk marriage either, because a marriage can be feral at times even for many a generally good relationship.
Could I cope if raised like you?
Or can I choose to learn from what I hated to be a better person than was modeled by my parents?
Relationships and marriage with a person who has so much anger won’t cope well with the problems that come up in the marriage relationship; and certainly be unable to cope with the many stresses of raising children.
It would be my thought that you need to deal with your anger, and find forgiveness.
The forgiveness is necessary for your own well-being and happiness even before considering relationships.
Can people change? I don’t know. Not, I think, but they can modify how they think and relate.
No one is perfect.
Yes the treatment you received as a child was awful, but you are still allowing it to continue to torture you. The prospect of a happy loved childhood was stolen from you forever. That is appalling. However you are not the sum of your childhood as you have already proven in some ways…
I’m not sure I’d want to risk children under the circumstances, and probably not want to risk marriage either, because a marriage can be feral at times even for many a generally good relationship.
Could I cope if raised like you?
Or can I choose to learn from what I hated to be a better person than was modeled by my parents?
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rayne89
Guest
That is insulting. You know it isn’t Catholicism that you have a problem with, its God that you have a problem with. “I am not willing to trust”, “I am not willing to serve” “I am not willing to seek understanding of your teachings”.
I have a life threatening heart condition that would make pregnancy deadly for me since the birth of our only child. I have used NFP for almost 20 years without pregnancy. You are not looking for truth, you are looking for a God that is convenient, that conforms to your will, conforms to your feelings. A God that expects little. You want things your way. And you can choose your way, because God gives you the free will to do that.
How does one seek out an “easier” church, one that fits one’s feelings and still feel that they are worshiping God in all truth and not just creating a God in our image, in our likeness. If I am being harsh its because I feel you are insulting God. You don’t get a free pass because you are hurting. I’m sorry but you don’t.
My childhood sucked, my husband’s childhood sucked. My mother told me she wished I had died instead of my sister. Do you want to compare wounds? Let God love you and heal you instead of rejecting him in anger and bitterness. You are in my prayers.
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