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Neil_Anthony
Guest
Is it okay to want to have mystical experiences like in Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle? Should we pray for interior locutions and ecstasies etc? Why or why not?
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Pitcharan
Guest
Every believer’s craving is union with God. All our devotions are directed towards this ultimate goal.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
No, we shouldn’t. First, you can attribute all kinds of things to God because you want to experience it so much you actually are just creating something for yourself out of your own mind. Then you end up worshipping yourself and not God.
More importantly, the experiences are actually irrelevant. Valuing them in any way tends to lead to not valuing the true Divine response to your prayer, which doesn’t come during contemplation, but after. We are changed by this, we allow the Holy Spirit to work in us. We see the most astounding benefits far beyond any of the experiences that are incidental at best: increases in mercy, wisdom, faith, humility, and even in physical health and well-being.
Wanting and seeking the “experiences” is probably the best way to undermine your prayer life.
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R_C
Guest
No, it is gravely erroneous to do so. To begin with, mystics never wanted to have such experiences. Second, by seeking for signs and visions, we open ourselves to the deceptions of Satan, who loves to give fake mystical experiences in order to very subtly drift people away from God.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
No, because a true mystical experience is from God alone, and not something we can create.
Union with God, because he is God, is the only desire we should seek. Whatever comes by way of Him, will bring us closer to that union.
Anything else will probably be a false asceticism which we’ve created to satisfy our ego.
Jim
Union with God, because he is God, is the only desire we should seek. Whatever comes by way of Him, will bring us closer to that union.
Anything else will probably be a false asceticism which we’ve created to satisfy our ego.
Jim
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Sirach2
Guest
Jesus’s words to us are found in John 14:21,
“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.”
Our dear Lord will not be outdone in generosity, and true to his promise, he will manifest (a big word) himself to us spiritually. The key is, that out of love for him we keep his commandments. He will do the rest, if it be his will and we are spiritually prepared to receive his gifts.
“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.”
Our dear Lord will not be outdone in generosity, and true to his promise, he will manifest (a big word) himself to us spiritually. The key is, that out of love for him we keep his commandments. He will do the rest, if it be his will and we are spiritually prepared to receive his gifts.
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robwar
Guest
There is a saying “be careful what you wish for”. In wanting mystical experience similar to a number of saints, you have to realize that many of these mystical saints also endured some incredible sufferings with it. St. Padre Pio, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross etc endured or experienced some very intense sufferings. The children of Fatima, St. Catherine of Lourdes are other examples. The better aim is to pray to become closer to the Lord and desire that. The above mentioned people were not seeking mystical experiences or visions at all.
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JRKH
Guest
Well I see that anything i can say would be redundant…So many good responses, but I think that this one perhaps says it best…
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mercytruth
Guest
As I understand the contemplatives, above all else we should be praying that our own will becomes submitted to the will of God. If we humbly pray every day, 'not my will, but Thy will be done", we will be on the narrow road. What is God’s will? Denying ourselves, taking up our cross, and obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ… through, by, and in Jesus Christ…the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, which are a more perfect version of the law give from Mount Sinai.
God’s peace be with you
micah
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I didn’t ask for them, but I got them, and liked them. :egyptian:
Some pretty scary circumstances preceded them. I wouldn’t recommend my road to the sane.
Alan
Some pretty scary circumstances preceded them. I wouldn’t recommend my road to the sane.
Alan
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
I’m worried now that the two interior visions I had that helped me believe in certain aspects of Catholicism could have been from the devil 
Can he really send false visions? Mine were associated with intense feelings of being loved in one case and of awe in the other. But also I had an interest in supernatural things. Maybe I’m way off track, in love with myself and following false doctrines
Can he really send false visions? Mine were associated with intense feelings of being loved in one case and of awe in the other. But also I had an interest in supernatural things. Maybe I’m way off track, in love with myself and following false doctrines
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robwar
Guest
I believe you should find a wise spiritual director to discuss this with. It is against forum rules to post private revelations and there is no way for any of us to judge for you what you experienced. With some of the other posters, it is rather unwise to look for or wish for mystical experiences and the saints that have had them were under some kind of spiritual directer, advisor or authority and they also experienced some pretty severe sufferings and temptations.I’m worried now that the two interior visions I had that helped me believe in certain aspects of Catholicism could have been from the devil
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
Seek the Giver, not the gifts. It’s that simple. (Sort of a reworking of the Scriptures “Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus” and “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you”)
Regarding private revelations, yes, the devil can cause them. That is why we seek spiritual direction as we advance in the spiritual life. If you do not have a spiritual director, one thing you can do yourself is test the fruit. Ask yourself: Have you been drawn closer to God through the experience? Are you leading others to Jesus? What is the fruit in your life since these experiences? These are just questions you can ask to help you discern. And, of course, take it to the Lord as well. If the fruit is good, then you can be confident that it was from the Lord. The devil does not want you to grow closer to God. He wants to put doubts in your head, not reassure you. Generally, I would say the sense of being intensely loved is not of the devil, he wants you to think God doesn’t love you. But caution is always needed because the devil is supremely subtle and can use good things and good feelings to very subtly move you off track. This is why it is so helpful to have a spiritual director to help discern.
Additionally, perhaps you can post in a separate thread the two things that you were having trouble with (not the revelations). Maybe we can help you come to terms with them-- either from a scriptural or historical perspective. That way you can become more firm in your belief on those two issues based on something more tangible than a private revelation. Just a thought…
Regarding private revelations, yes, the devil can cause them. That is why we seek spiritual direction as we advance in the spiritual life. If you do not have a spiritual director, one thing you can do yourself is test the fruit. Ask yourself: Have you been drawn closer to God through the experience? Are you leading others to Jesus? What is the fruit in your life since these experiences? These are just questions you can ask to help you discern. And, of course, take it to the Lord as well. If the fruit is good, then you can be confident that it was from the Lord. The devil does not want you to grow closer to God. He wants to put doubts in your head, not reassure you. Generally, I would say the sense of being intensely loved is not of the devil, he wants you to think God doesn’t love you. But caution is always needed because the devil is supremely subtle and can use good things and good feelings to very subtly move you off track. This is why it is so helpful to have a spiritual director to help discern.
Additionally, perhaps you can post in a separate thread the two things that you were having trouble with (not the revelations). Maybe we can help you come to terms with them-- either from a scriptural or historical perspective. That way you can become more firm in your belief on those two issues based on something more tangible than a private revelation. Just a thought…
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Sirach2
Guest
Don’t let the devil have a place in this. He cannot communicate the love of God to one’s spirit. If this is profitable, allow your spirit to recall the experience to renew your feelings of love and being loved. If your remembrance generates pride rather than gratitude, love, humility, etc., then cast it aside and pay it no mind.I’m worried now that the two interior visions I had that helped me believe in certain aspects of Catholicism could have been from the devil
St. John of the Cross teaches:
And in this case the soul will make account, not of feelings of sweetness or delight, nor of figures, but of the feelings of love which they cause it. And with this sole end in view it may at times recall that image and apprehension caused it by love, in order to set the spirit on its course of love.
For, though the effect of that apprehension be not so great afterwards, when it is recalled, as it was on the first occasion when it was communicated, yet, when it is recalled, love is renewed, and the mind is lifted up to God, especially when the recollection is of certain figures, images or feelings which are supernatural, and are wont to be sealed and imprinted upon the soul in such a way that they continue for a long time – some of them, indeed, never leave the soul.
And those that are thus sealed upon the soul produce in it Divine effects of love, sweetness, light and so forth, on almost every occasion when the soul returns to them, sometimes more so and sometimes less;** for it was to this end that they were impressed upon it. And thus this is a great favour for the soul on which God bestows it, for it is as though it had within itself a mine of blessings.**
They may be known, however, by their effects. For those that are natural, or that come from the devil, produce no good effect upon the soul, however frequently they be recalled, nor work its spiritual renewal, but the contemplation of them simply produces aridity. Those that are good, however, produce some good effect when they are recalled, like that which was produced in the soul upon the first occasion. But the formal images which are imprinted upon the soul almost invariably produce some effect in it, whensoever they are remembered.
These general principles may be studied and discerned with regard to what you received, even though you may not find a suitable spiritual director. Most likely, that is the very reason we have St. John’s writings for our enlightenment. I was never blessed to find a director who had this kind of knowledge to guide me.
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mercytruth
Guest
Very sound advice from St. John of the Cross, (4th paragraph of St. John, especially) from post #14. If you keep 1 Corinth. 13 in perspective at all times in the midst of possible revelations, you should be all right.
Stay humble before God, and deception will be greatly minimalized.
God’s peace be with you
micah
Stay humble before God, and deception will be greatly minimalized.
God’s peace be with you
micah
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Lady_Love
Guest
Who hasn’t, at some point in their prayer life, wanted to hear the voice of Jesus or Mary? And if you have heard it, who hasn’t wanted to hear it again? Who hasn’t been between a rock and a hard place and begged God to speak to him in words?
I think if you didn’t want to have that experience, there would be something really wrong! What woman does not want to hear the voice of her beloved? Who doesn’t want their lover to ease their mind and calm their fears? What person does not desire to be lifted up above this world and it’s vanities to the reality of God’s ecstatic love?
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. We were made to KNOW God, we were made to love Him. How can we love what we do not know? How do we know Him unless He reveals Himself? How do we ever know ourselves if we don’t know Him who made us for Himself?
Ask away! You have every right to ask your Beloved for whatever you want! In this godless society with so few who really love God, I bet God would be delighted that someone wants to share His life and experiences with Him.
I think if you didn’t want to have that experience, there would be something really wrong! What woman does not want to hear the voice of her beloved? Who doesn’t want their lover to ease their mind and calm their fears? What person does not desire to be lifted up above this world and it’s vanities to the reality of God’s ecstatic love?
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. We were made to KNOW God, we were made to love Him. How can we love what we do not know? How do we know Him unless He reveals Himself? How do we ever know ourselves if we don’t know Him who made us for Himself?
Ask away! You have every right to ask your Beloved for whatever you want! In this godless society with so few who really love God, I bet God would be delighted that someone wants to share His life and experiences with Him.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
In short, when God touches the soul with his grace, it will have a transforming effect on the individual. The transformation will be the effect of divine love on the soul and will move the individual toward the ability to love as Christ loves.
Jim
Jim
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
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Julia_Mae
Guest
Well, were you sitting in a pew praying for God to give you an interior vision? Or were you just asking for guidance? Or maybe not doing much at all? My first visions surprised the heck out of me. So is it the thread that has raised the doubts or your own motivation?I’m worried now that the two interior visions I had that helped me believe in certain aspects of Catholicism could have been from the devil
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
I was just attending mass and thinking about the meaning of the eucharist.
I’m generally curious about paranormal thing, e.g. I would like to
- see a UFO
- see a ghost
- witness a miracle
- witness an apparition
- watch an excorcism
- see visions
etc.
More to the point, I would like the gifts of tongues, healing and prophecy. And lots of consolations. I like the warm fuzzy feeling when you feel full of praise for God.
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