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ProVobis
Guest
Is there a list of dioceses where standing is mandatory at all times? What if the parishes have communion rails, which imply permitted kneeling?
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otjm
Guest
Given the propensity of humans to make lists, I am not going to say “no”.
What happens with parishes with rails? Most likely what happened here - those parishes with rails receive at the rail, an those parishes which don’t, receive standing.
We both know this is not overly complicated, don’t we. It really does not require a list; it only requires enough humility to submit to the direction of the bishop, and which posture has been set is patently obvious at the start of Communion.
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Enkeli75
Guest
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Enkeli75
Guest
As a Protestant I am aware that you can worship God without rituals etc. God is everywhere. So don’t worry my love, whatever you do, you,re in Godly hands! Lol!
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ProVobis
Guest
Personally, over the last 40 years I have never seen kneeling to receive outside a communion rail. I can only imagine the havoc created when one would even try; it seems that the matter would take care of itself by the priest or someone else if it ever came up. Do we really want to involve the bishop on what-ifs, where he might be seen as disobeying the Vatican or his own synod?
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otjm
Guest
I have seen it, but rarely; probably not an average of once a year.
And no, the bishop does not get involved. Pretty much, they have made the rule and moved on; sometimes literally, and the next bishop leaves the rule in place.
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Denise1957
Guest
Why do you think that being married to a Protestant would be a source of hazing for you? I attended the Latin Mass for 7 years (SSPX and FSSP), and I told people and priests at both (some were friends) that my husband is not Catholic, and that he’s a new-ager. They were actually sympathetic toward me, in that he’s not Catholic, and they were understanding of the problems associated with being married to a non-Catholic. No hazing or anything negative toward me at all.
Edited to add: Oops…I didn’t see #2 on your list. Using birth control would indeed be a problem at a trad parish or Mass. But then it’s a problem for any Catholic, not just trads, of course
Edited to add: Oops…I didn’t see #2 on your list. Using birth control would indeed be a problem at a trad parish or Mass. But then it’s a problem for any Catholic, not just trads, of course
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CB_Catholic
Guest
Using birth control should not be a problem at a “trad” or any other parish, because it is none of the other parishioners’ business. This is not for them to judge. Only the confessor should have access to this information. Besides, it is this gentleman’s wife who uses it and the gentleman does not agree, but it is permitted by the Church for him to have relations with his wife, and it is not sinful for him if he meets certain conditions.
The document addressing this can be found here:
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=93
#13 down the list is the part which addresses this. The document gives guidelines for Confessors in marriage situations. It is very interesting and informative.
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Denise1957
Guest
Thanks for the info.
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Denise1957
Guest
It sounds like you have a good handle and attitude on the situation. When I converted, I told the priest (SSPX) about my husband not being Catholic, and he said to go easy and not push the faith on him. It was good advice. It was difficult when certain family members mocked me about Catholicism, but I didn’t let it bother me, and they don’t do it anymore. Not sure if my husband will ever be Catholic, but other family members are starting to have an interest in Catholicism (my brother is interested, and one niece is in RCIA - thanks be to God). Just being a good example, as you have said, will be very helpful. Being married to a non-Catholic helps to teach patience, IMO.
My Great-grandfather was a Wesleyen (Methodist) minister, but eventually, by the time my dad was growing up, they became Assemblies of God Pentecostals, so I understand the transition of Methodist to Pentecostal. But at least Pentecostals are Christian, so your wife already has a basis to start from, when she begins to have an interest in Catholicism, one day. It’s so good that you’re praying for her!
My Great-grandfather was a Wesleyen (Methodist) minister, but eventually, by the time my dad was growing up, they became Assemblies of God Pentecostals, so I understand the transition of Methodist to Pentecostal. But at least Pentecostals are Christian, so your wife already has a basis to start from, when she begins to have an interest in Catholicism, one day. It’s so good that you’re praying for her!
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otjm
Guest
I was not referring to CITH/COTT; I was referring to the fact that the bishop has the authority to state that Communion is to be received standing up. Rome has said that a communicant who choses to kneel down when the appropriate method is standing, cannot be punished by being refused Communion - which for those who wish to promote kneeling down when others are standing, is translated as “Rome gave permission”. Rome did not give permission; Rome said it could not be punished by refusing Communion (which ahd been happening in some instances).
So the bishop still has the right to determine that Communion is received standing, and you are promoting that the bishop’s determination be ignored, if not directly violated.
That is called pick and choose. You are telling the OP that they can choose to ignore the bishop’s request.
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TrueLight
Guest
I didn’t read every post so forgive me if some of these things were already listed. You may only be able to attend a TLM infrequently, but you can still do other things.
- Read the life of the Saints and books on pursuing holiness. I recommend “Introduction to a Devout Life by St Francis de Sales and Story of a Soul.”
- Pray the Rosary
- Research traditional Novenas and devotions like the Sacred Heart
- pray the Angelus
- pray for the Holy Souls in Purgatory
– Learn some of the common prayers of the Church in Latin - pray the traditional breviary at divinumofficium.orgif you are so inclined.
- OR pray the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary
– Use Holy Water
– Learn traditional Catholic hymns if you like to sing. - Even if you don’t have a traditional Latin Mass near you, you can watch the Mass on the internet. It doesn’t fulfill your obligation, but can help in you feeling that you are actually present at the Mass.
livemass.org/LiveMass/home.html
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Salvelinus
Guest
The only thing a “Traditionalist” is, is a Catholic who practices their faith the way it was prior to the 1960s. Go back and read Catholic books, prayer guides, etc prior to 1964.
I just have to ask this after reading many of the replies…I don’t understand why there is so much “fear” here about SSPX, and anybody visiting, yet many have no problem going to Protestant worship services, having Protestant friends, etc…
Last I checked, Protestants are a little less “in Union with Rome”
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OraLabora
Guest
The fear is that we are promoting schism, especially if attending Mass at the SSPX on a regular basis is in lieu of one’s Sunday obligation. I do go to Protestant services on a very sporadic basis because my wife is Anglican, but by no means on a regular basis (maybe 1-3 times per year), and never in lieu of my own Mass obligation; I go when I have the opportunity to go to Mass at another time.
My view is that your definition of “traditionalist” is too narrow, and exclusive. It shuts out folks who would like to see traditions we hold dear carried over to the Ordinary Form, as they licitly can be and in fact were intended to be as stated in Sacrosanctum Concilium. Fortunately I live near a monastery that uses Gregorian chant… in Latin (plus its smattering of Greek) on a daily basis, faithful to SC. I also sing in a schola that does Gregorian chant in the OF on a monthly basis, rotating through different parishes to expose folks to chant. Finally, I chant the current Liturgy of the Hours in Latin, daily. The liturgy is not static (even the Divine Office underwent profound reforms in 1910, and yes it took a great deal of effort to adapt chant-particularly antiphons-to the new Roman Breviary of 1910; the breviary of 1960, based on the 1910, is thus only 115 years old, so not very “traditional”), and “traditions” that are very ancient, can still be applied to the modern liturgy. Heck Gregorian chant as we currently know it isn’t even all that old, it was restored in the late 19th century at Solesmes but we really don’t know what true Gregorian chant (in the Carolingian era) sounded like.
Plus there were many more chant traditions (Gallican, Old Roman, Sarum, Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Beneventan to name a few) that are much older, a few of which survive. But I digress.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
None of this is associated with the EF. They are Catholic traditions that belong to all of us, not just so-called “traditionalists.” There should be no implication otherwise. God bless you.
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TrueLight
Guest
I don’t remember saying they were. My post was about becoming immersed in all things traditionally Catholic.
God bless YOU.
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johnnyc176
Guest
A very helpful list.
I’ve attended OF and EF parishes and fact is you will only hear about some of these in an EF parish.
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corsair
Guest
Well, Johnnyc, I don’t know what sort of EF parish you go to but at ours we talk about all of these things that Truelight has mentioned. Certainly not ALL the time, but these items are things that can be done to assist in developing a traditional spiritual life.
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LightBound
Guest
I think he was saying that some of those things listed would only be talked about in an EF parish, not both an OF or EF. If that’s what he meant, his “facts” are a little off…these things are well-known in my OF parish and many that I’ve attended over the years.Well, Johnnyc, I don’t know what sort of EF parish you go to but at ours we talk about all of these things that Truelight has mentioned. Certainly not ALL the time, but these items are things that can be done to assist in developing a traditional spiritual life.
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otjm
Guest
Just to help you out, since you don’t understand:
The Church holds that Protestants are not heretics, as they have inherited about 500 years of the errors from which Protestantism originated, and are not morally responsible for rejecting the Church.
On the other hand, the SSPX have been bishops and priests who have been ordained Catholic and have broken off.
And lest we narrow your term “Traditionalist” down too tightly, a Traditionalist, if they are part of the Catholic Church, do not reject anything since the mid 1960’s which the Church has promulgated, as that is walking a mighty thin line with rejecting the Church; and one can slip over that line so easily.
It is fine to be emotionally attached to things prior to the 1960’s’; the danger is in rejecting things since then.
And before one becomes too enamored with the 40’s and the 50’s, it would bear remembering that the abuses committed by priests in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s was in large part committed by priests who were ordained in the 40’s and 50’s and early 60’s, before the changes. All was not entirely copasetic then.
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