War & Abortion: What's the Difference?

[PLAL]

renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050818

**Prominent priest speaks on Iraq war, abortion
**


Matt C. Abbott

Matt C. Abbott
August 17, 2005

As many will recall, during the 2004 presidential election, there was a lot of debate, particularly in Catholic circles, over the morality of the war in Iraq; and whether a Catholic should vote for a candidate — John Kerry — who supported abortion “rights” (an intrinsic evil) but opposed President Bush’s (who most people conceded was more anti-abortion than Kerry) policy on the war, which certain members of the Church hierarchy also opposed, and still oppose, presumably.

The debate over the war continues, of course. The country is seemingly divided on this issue, as are Catholics.

New web address for RenewAmerica recently asked Father Tom Euteneuer, president of Human Life International (www.hli.org), what his thoughts are regarding the culture of death versus the war in Iraq. He responded:

"The war in Iraq has many supporters and detractors, but it is not of the same moral consequence as the war against the unborn. If you judge the gravity of a war by the number of casualties it causes, then Iraq looks like a playground skirmish in comparison to the killing of babies.

"Up to this point there have been less than 2000 soldiers killed in Iraq for what many consider to be a just cause. That does not even equal half the death toll of the babies that are killed by abortion every single day on the streets of America in one of the worst injustices ever perpetrated upon a class of human beings.

“Abortion is the greatest war in history — and, unfortunately for the babies, the one that people care least about.”

Father Euteneuer seems to echo the sentiments of another prominent priest, Father Frank Pavone, national director of Priests for Life (www.priestsforlife.org), who wrote:

"… [O]ne may support the [Iraq] war precisely because he or she is pro-life and concludes that in this case, force is the only way to protect human life, human rights, and human freedom from the hands of those who would destroy it. Others may disagree with the conclusion, which is fine — but don’t deny the other person’s right to come to the conclusion.

“And do not miss the profound difference with abortion. There is no room for interpretations or evaluations of whether abortion may be justified. It cannot be, because its very essence is the deliberate targeting and destruction of a child. In war, we do not target a single child, whereas every abortion targets a child. Catholic teaching allows more than one position on war, but it does not allow more than one position on abortion.”

(See: lifenews.com/nat577.html)

Matt C. Abbott is a Catholic journalist and commentator. He is a columnist for and/or contributor to RenewAmerica.us, MichNews.com, Catholic.org, TheConservativeVoice.com, Opeds.com, CatholicCitizens.org, Speroforum.com, and other sites. He is also an occasional contributor to “The Wanderer” Catholic newspaper. He can be reached at mattcabbott@&ltNOSPAM&gthotmail.com .

© Copyright 2005 by Matt C. Abbott
renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050818

 

[Listener]

Sorry, but I don’t agree with that argument. I believe that both war and abortion are wrong, and there is plenty of stuff written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to back me up on this. I even heard Pope Paul VI say, “No more war! War never again!” with my own ears (when he made a visit to the United States). Here’s why this argument doesn’t work. Suppose that there were one million abortions in the United States and only 2,000 abortions in Australia. Then, if I think like this priest does, I could argue that the abortions in Australia were less evil than the abortions in the United States. That would be total nonsense!

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

It is easy. Abortion is intrinsically evil. There is no valid justification for it. It is and always will be evil, regardless of the circumstances.

War is not intrinsically evil. Not every war is unjust. In fact, sometimes it is a necessity. Leaders of state have a moral imperitive to protect its citizenry.

 

[Andrew_11]

Listener:

Sorry, but I don’t agree with that argument. I believe that both war and abortion are wrong, and there is plenty of stuff written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to back me up on this. I even heard Pope Paul VI say, “No more war! War never again!” with my own ears (when he made a visit to the United States). Here’s why this argument doesn’t work. Suppose that there were one million abortions in the United States and only 2,000 abortions in Australia. Then, if I think like this priest does, I could argue that the abortions in Australia were less evil than the abortions in the United States. That would be total nonsense!

Lets compare abortion to WWII. Abortion kills innocent babies. If we hadn’t entered WWII, Europe would be controlled by Nazis, and anyone who disagreed with them would be killed. The holocaust would have continued, and millions of Jews, Catholics, Poles, and anyone else the Nazis didn’t like, would be in concentration camps today, being starved to death. Do you really think we should not have fought WWII.

 

[Listener]

**2314 **“Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.” A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.

I didn’t make this up. It is a direct quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are definitely saying that war IS intrinsically evil, at least in certain cases. I just don’t understand why the same people who get so upset when unborn children are killed think it’s perfectly okay to kill people who are already born. In a war, unborn children are killed right along with people who are already born. Deciding whether or not a war is just is not some trivial thing, like the flip of a coin.

 

[Brendan]

Listener:

Sorry, but I don’t agree with that argument. I believe that both war and abortion are wrong, !

God has ordered men to fight wars, God does not order men to perform abortions.

There can be (and has been) Just Wars. There is no such thing as a Just Abortion.

The Church has declared abortion to be ‘intrinsically evil’, which means evil everywhere, by anyone under any circumstances.

The Church has never said that because it cannot. God Himself has ordered war, and God can never command evil.

They are definitely saying that war IS intrinsically evil, at least in certain cases

What you just said here is a contradiction in terms. If something is intrinsically evil, there are no ‘cases’.

 

[Brendan]

Listner

What you are forgetting is that the CCC also provides guidelines on how to determine if a war is Just

CCC 2309

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
-the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

-all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

-there must be serious prospects of success;

-the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.

The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good

So if the Church describes the conditions under which a war would be Just.

It a war is determined to be Just, then by definition, it cannot be evil.

If there are cases where war is not evil, then, again by definition, it is not intrinsically evil.

Abortion is always evil, that is not true for war.

 

[Steven_Merten]

**2314 **“Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.” A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.

That is why we are in Iraq. To stop these evil wicked Alqada terrorists. It is these wicked Alqada terrorists greatest desire to cause “indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants”. They lust to use atomic, biological and chemical weapons to commit such crimes against humanity. Pray to God that America and Her allies can stop them before they commit such crimes against God and man.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

**2314 **“Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.” A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.

I didn’t make this up. It is a direct quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are definitely saying that war IS intrinsically evil, at least in certain cases. I just don’t understand why the same people who get so upset when unborn children are killed think it’s perfectly okay to kill people who are already born. In a war, unborn children are killed right along with people who are already born. Deciding whether or not a war is just is not some trivial thing, like the flip of a coin.

This piece of the catechism is only in regards to acts of war which indescrimanently target civilians. I.e., according to the catechism, dropping nuclear weapons on civilian populations is intrinsically evil.

 

[miguel]

**2314 **“Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.” A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.

I didn’t make this up. It is a direct quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are definitely saying that war IS intrinsically evil, at least in certain cases. I just don’t understand why the same people who get so upset when unborn children are killed think it’s perfectly okay to kill people who are already born. In a war, unborn children are killed right along with people who are already born. Deciding whether or not a war is just is not some trivial thing, like the flip of a coin.

Your quote applies to certain evil actions within warfare…the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants (i.e., the intentional wholesale killing of non-combatants). I don’t think anyone on this thread (so far) is arguing that this is OK. The statement doesn’t say “war is intrinsically evil”. You did make that up.