War and Christianity

[JIB]

It’s not nitpicking. Theory is subject to discussion and revision. Doctrine is teaching and is definitive. By calling it a theory, one implies that one is free to accept or reject it (as with all theories). By properly calling it doctrine, one clearly indicates that it must be held.

Picking nits.

I’ve talked with plenty of priests and sisters about this topic and never been corrected since people understand what we’re talking about. I’ve seen it called theory on several Catholic websites too.

Relax.

 

[alibaba]

One thing to keep in mind is that the OT teaching ARE the teachings of Christ.

The God of the OT is the same God who stood on the Mount of the Beatitudes, and therefore, the teachings are (by definition) one and the same.

Each must be understood in the context of the other.

The same Christ who said “Love your neighbor” is the same Lord who spoke to Moses and ordered him to attack the Midianites ( Numbers 31)

It is the same God ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit, acting as one) , the same teaching. Old Testament and New.

I think that’s only half-true.

God before Jesus did not forgive. He punished people for their sins. At the same time, he allowed things like poligamy, rape, murder and war to happen, essentially because that is what people *deserved *for their sinfulness.

Jesus may not have disagreed with the tenets and moral teachings of the OT, but he clearly wanted to help people, rather than punish them.

I think he died in order to break the cycle of sin and punishment. He intended for us to leave behind the situation we were in in the time of the OT and live according to the example he set for us.

As you said, you have to look at the context of the OT in order to understand Christ’s teachings. He didn’t intend to change the old teachings, he wanted to change US.
*That *was his gift - for us to become *worthy *of a peaceful, dignified existence in this world, without violence and greed.

Or am I really just “not getting” it?

 

[alibaba]

But now you’re talking about military spending, which is a different matter entirely. Your original question was about war, in principle.

If your country were to be invaded by a foreign army, your citizens subjected to atrocities; in your view, what do then believe is the proper response?

The same thing Jesus did - spread the message of peace and forgiveness, teach morality and clearly point out the evils that are being committed. If necessary, die by the hands of the invaders, but never surrender - neither to them, nor to the temptations of violence.

Jesus lived his values and died for them. His actions changed the world. How much clearer can the message of non-violence and it’s awesome power be demonstrated?

 

[Taestron]

Thanks for the great reply Dale_M.

I suspect what bothers me most is the people in government who claim to be faithful Christians (this applies to most western countries) but behave nothing at all like Christ.

They seem to use Christianity whenever it’s convenient for them but completely ignore Jesus’ teachings and all of a sudden become “realistic” when behaving like Christ would not be advantageous for them.

It’s so prevalent that it doesn’t even seem to bother anyone anymore.

How can it be for example, that the “defense” industry in the US is as large and powerful as all defense industries in the rest of the world combined?
I see no reason not to possess weapons for personal defense but this obviously is military weaponry that is sold to war zones all over the world (it’s not like the US alone could ever use this many weapons - and if it did, that would be even more insane) and certainly not required for the defense of the nation.

Hoarding a crazy amount of weaponry, supporting foreign wars, invading countries on the other side of the world… Is that what a supposedly christian nation should really be doing?

Does this really not bother anyone else?

We should remember that modern sensibilities regarding warfare did not always exist. Christianity has gone through periods of major support of warfare and relatively outspoken pacifism. Even now, you have many Christians supporting warfare, but other Christians requiring members to be pacifists. It really is not a black and white situation.

I would think that a “Christian nations” duty is to do what is best for society. In the world we live in, that might make war all to often necessary. And while the world police mentality that the US manifest and the blind patriotism of many American Christians do worry me, I cannot condemn Christians for believing that warfare is necessary.

In regards to your original post, you might want to check out Revelation 19:11-21. It is hard to read that passage and say that there is no room in Christianity for warfare even if we take the passage as metaphorical.