War

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Jim_Baur

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I am sixty. I know that this might sound as if I am in my teens or perhaps a young college student.

For a lay person in the area of history, I have a solid understanding of history.

When I study history as a senior citizen, I see things much more clearly than studying history for a class grade.

The amount of time, money, energy, and human life involved in war cannot be comprehended.

The destruction, murdering, raping, and stealing cannot be comprehended.

The world leaders throughout the millennia have lead us into such wickedness that one cannot grasp it.

Even if this sound like an oxymoron, war must be outlawed.

I know the just war theory. I know of the Crucifixion. I go with Jesus Christ on this one and all others.

War must be outlawed.
 
We have to start with ourselves, and allow the Lord to deeply sanctify us.

The darkness recedes when the Light grows brighter!
 
We must change ourselves from within to have no more war. War is a direct result of sin. If the world wouldn’t sin we would not have this terrible problem.

Also how could one enforce the law that war is not allowed. What would be the reprimands for going against this.
 
I am also sixty. If we had not gone to war in WWII, eventually there would not have been one Jewish person left on the planet ( the Nazi’s were not too fond of Catholics either) and we would be speaking either German or Japanese today. When our Christian brothers and sisters in the Middle East are begging us to defend them from ISIS how can we ignore them? There is a time for war and a time for peace; our problem these days is that no one really knows the difference anymore. Appeasement is not peace and the absence of war is not peace; real peace comes from justice and there is not a lot of that around either.
 
👍👍

Still, “outlawing war” is a romantic dream as long as national sovereignty remains. And right now, there is nothing that can replace sovereign nations. Nor would anybody sign on to such a scheme.

ICXC NIKA
 
Concerning WWII, it might be a unique situation. I do not know. But unique situations make bad law. Regardless of how accurate the Jewish situation, the crucifix still rules for the Christian! Regardless of what the media, politician, and pundits say, the cross rules over war! We all know that for the first 300 years the Cross ruled–Christians did not join the legions.

How many wars haven been fought for land, money, future taxation, booty (for the kings, generals and even more shamefully, for the soldiers) and pride.

Or one could invert the question.

War is the oldest industry. It is really destructive on all the points I mentioned in the first post.

I am first and foremost a Catholic. We inherit eternal life by love!

I love this country. The Presidents and generals (speaking in general terms) and the war industry is another question. I love them, but they are really, really not good for love!

Just for the U. S., how many wars have we fought to gain land (etc.)?
 
This might clarify my thoughts, might!

I do not trust the politicians of this country. The people and patriotism are GREAT!

When I consider that surgical abortions have come close to 2,000,000,000 in the world, and about 35,000,000 in U. S., murder in the U. S. is about 15,000 per year, last century 130,000,000 was killed during war; dictators took another 100,000,000, and so on and so forth. I can see that the Dark Age were much better than our own times.
 
I am the OP.

I know that I am dreaming.

But war is so wicked! Just let me dream, at least once for a few minutes.

THANKS!
 
Jim_Baur said:
I am the OP.

I know that I am dreaming.

But war is so wicked! Just let me dream, at least once for a few minutes.

THANKS!
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Hey, amigo, I share the dream!

But the disease of national sovereignty, which breaks out generationally in the fever of war, has only one cure: world government.

And the world fears the cure more than the disease.

ICXC NIKA.
 
He didn’t say we went to war to save the Jews.

Now had we sat out the war as some would have preferred. The face of Europe would have been changed for ever. The only question is how long would it have taken for the Soviets to prevail. When they did could the free world then stand against them? 🤷 Imagine a Europe held in a Stalinist iron fist.

Japan was a bigger threat to our shores, and there is not much use in debating what would have happened if we sat out that part.

For the OP first of all I must protest the implication that 60yo’s are senior citizens.:cool:

Second of all, exactly what law enforcement tactics would you use to enforce your ban on war?

ATB
 
I dont think the US will ever reach a period ever again, where we are ‘at peace’, we will always be at some state of war with someone indefinitely imo. This war on terror will probably go on and on, never ending, until and if there is some greater threat.

I cant remember where I heard this, if it sounds familiar to anyone, let me know…I once read somewhere there is going to be different stages of war…first will be the war on terror, which we are in now, then supposedly asteroids will become a greater threat and force the planet to work together.
 
A little history lesson: 7 December 1941 Japan attacks the naval base at Pearl Harbor. 8 December 1941 the U. S. declares war on Japan BECAUSE THEY ATTACK US. Jim should we have turned the other cheek? 11 December 1941 Germany declares war on the U. S. A. . After Germany declares war on us, we declare war on Germany. WE WENT TO WAR BECAUSE WE WERE ATTACKED.

As long as we live in a fallen world war will be a fact of life. We have outlawed murder, rape and robbery. But they still happen. Until we are in the with HIM in Heaven, we will have to live in this ugly world!
 
mikekle said:
I dont think the US will ever reach a period ever again, where we are ‘at peace’, we will always be at some state of war with someone indefinitely imo. This war on terror will probably go on and on, never ending, until and if there is some greater threat.

I cant remember where I heard this, if it sounds familiar to anyone, let me know…I once read somewhere there is going to be different stages of war…first will be the war on terror, which we are in now, then supposedly asteroids will become a greater threat and force the planet to work together.
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Nope, when the asteroid comes, it will hit, because we won’t see it in time, being too preoccupied with upholding our archaic national sovereignties.

And then the 0.1% of human life who survive will within a generation resume fighting with sticks and stones.

ICXC NIKA.
 
I think that if the U.S. and other nations had joined in WW-II much earlier, many lives might have been saved and the war shortened. Europe was tired of war and the U.S. was isolationist. Hitler was allowed to have free reign picking off nations one by one for a time because everyone was trying to appease him and keep the peace. That just made it worse. In the end, WW-II was the most destructive war in the history of mankind in terms of lives lost, both military and civilian.
 
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”—John Stewart Mills
 
👍

It takes two to tango. It takes two to have a conversation. It takes two (or more) to have a war. And it takes two (at least) to have peace.

For an entity to not oppose an aggressor on the aggressor’s terms on the grounds that war is evil is to ensure the victory of the aggressor. Yes, war is evil. But some things are more evil.
 
Wars of U. S.(at least some of them)

American Revolutionary War 1775-1783
Northwest Indian War 1785-1795
Quasi-War 1798-1800
War of 1812 1812-1815
First Seminole War 1817-1818
Black Hawk War 1832
Second Seminole War 1835-1842
Mexican-American War 1846-1848
Third Seminole War 1855-1858
Civil War 1861-1865
Indian Wars 1865-1898
Great Sioux War 1875-1877
Spanish-American War 1898
Philippine-American War 1898-1913
Boxer Rebellion 1900-1901
Mexican Rebellion 1914-1919
Haiti Occupation 1915-1934
World War I 1917-1918
North Russia Campaign 1918-1920
American Expeditionary Force Siberia 1918-1920
Nicaragua Occupation 1927-1933
World War II 1941-1945
Korean War 1950-1953
Vietnam War 1955-1975
El Salvador Civil War 1980-1992
Beirut 1982-1984
Grenada 1983
Panama 1989
Persian Gulf War 1990-1991
Operation Provide Comfort 1991-1996
Somalia Intervention 1992-1995
Bosnia 1995-2004
NATO Air Campaign Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan (0ngoing) 2001
Iraq 2003-2012

Which of these war were definitively just?

Which of the wars were not fought and did not gain the U. S. financial advantages?
 
Jim_Baur said:
Wars of U. S.(at least some of them)

American Revolutionary War 1775-1783
Northwest Indian War 1785-1795
Quasi-War 1798-1800
War of 1812 1812-1815
First Seminole War 1817-1818
Black Hawk War 1832
Second Seminole War 1835-1842
Mexican-American War 1846-1848
Third Seminole War 1855-1858
Civil War 1861-1865
Indian Wars 1865-1898
Great Sioux War 1875-1877
Spanish-American War 1898
Philippine-American War 1898-1913
Boxer Rebellion 1900-1901
Mexican Rebellion 1914-1919
Haiti Occupation 1915-1934
World War I 1917-1918
North Russia Campaign 1918-1920
American Expeditionary Force Siberia 1918-1920
Nicaragua Occupation 1927-1933
World War II 1941-1945
Korean War 1950-1953
Vietnam War 1955-1975
El Salvador Civil War 1980-1992
Beirut 1982-1984
Grenada 1983
Panama 1989
Persian Gulf War 1990-1991
Operation Provide Comfort 1991-1996
Somalia Intervention 1992-1995
Bosnia 1995-2004
NATO Air Campaign Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan (0ngoing) 2001
Iraq 2003-2012

Which of these war were definitively just?

Which of the wars were not fought and did not gain the U. S. financial advantages?
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The problem in trying to figure this out is, we, the public dont always hear the REAL reason for going to war, they may tell us one thing on the nightly news, but when you talk to soldiers that have been on the ground, usually they will tell you, that reason is not the real reason, usually has to do with oil, or really just greed, if this is true, NONE of these modern day wars have been just in God eyes…of course, that has some very serious implications.
 
Jim_Baur said:
Wars of U. S.(at least some of them)

American Revolutionary War 1775-1783
Northwest Indian War 1785-1795
Quasi-War 1798-1800
War of 1812 1812-1815
First Seminole War 1817-1818
Black Hawk War 1832
Second Seminole War 1835-1842
Mexican-American War 1846-1848
Third Seminole War 1855-1858
Civil War 1861-1865
Indian Wars 1865-1898
Great Sioux War 1875-1877
Spanish-American War 1898
Philippine-American War 1898-1913
Boxer Rebellion 1900-1901
Mexican Rebellion 1914-1919
Haiti Occupation 1915-1934
World War I 1917-1918
North Russia Campaign 1918-1920
American Expeditionary Force Siberia 1918-1920
Nicaragua Occupation 1927-1933
World War II 1941-1945
Korean War 1950-1953
Vietnam War 1955-1975
El Salvador Civil War 1980-1992
Beirut 1982-1984
Grenada 1983
Panama 1989
Persian Gulf War 1990-1991
Operation Provide Comfort 1991-1996
Somalia Intervention 1992-1995
Bosnia 1995-2004
NATO Air Campaign Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan (0ngoing) 2001
Iraq 2003-2012

Which of these war were definitively just?

Which of the wars were not fought and did not gain the U. S. financial advantages?
Click to expand...
That’s quite a list…and a tough question. Of all of those, I would say the Indian wars were probably the most unjust, since they were based purely on greed, aggression, and ethnic cleansing.
 
These are totally brutal discussions.

These are totally brutal philosophical arguments.

When I ask myself a boatload of questions about these, it becomes brutal.

It reminds me of a movie from about twenty-five years ago. I never saw the movie, but it most certainly came into class. “Indecent Proposal,” I believe was the name. It came up in a class. After five or six minutes of questioning about for how much would one sleep with a man (it was an all-girl Catholic school), one of the girls asked the girl who was willing to do it for a million down to around $ 50,000.00 cut to the case. “Would you do it for a penny?” The other student responded: “what do you think I am?” The girl that asked the question said: “you have already established that.”

Might the same principle apply to the Revolutionary War? Would you kill/murder a person for a billion dollars, a million, or five dollars?
 
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