Warning about ACORN-like groups

[sedonaman]

Say like what???
Ok, I really think you are getting the “left” mixed up with “communism” or “anarchy” … All communist nations have become dictatorships of one party rule, as such some of there [sic] anti-populist actions are more the traits of a dictatorship then the traits of the left.

The Bolsheviks didn’t revolt to start gulags; they did it to achieve social justice. Leftism naturally results in dictatorship because its implementation requires taking away peoples’ rights, rights that you claim you are all for. As an example close to home, I point to college and university campuses oppression of conservative thought and speech because they don’t support the causes célèbre of the Leftist faculty.

I cannot think of one leftist group, organization or nation that doesn’t have a hierarchy.

Then why all this push for radical egalitarianism by the Left? The best way of putting it was said by early twentieth century economist Vilfredo Pareto: “If outcomes are equalized, they will be equalized at a low level.” This is why all socialist countries are poorer than free ones.Example of Leftist equlity:

“The proposal to dismantle the Gifted and Talented Education, or GATE, Program at the [Vista, CA, Unified] school is supported by the Latino parents, opposed by parents of the GATE students. … “All students should be treated equally,” Latino parents said in a letter to the board and district administrators. “We believe that the school should not create differences between students who know more and students who know less.” [Emphasis added]
signonsandiego.com/news/education/20050519-9999-1mi19vusd.html

If you think Christ wanted gifted people to waste their talents because others less talented were envious, you have a distorted concept of Catholicism.

We believe that all people are created equal and such all deserves the same rights, privileges and resources of our government. This is the same as Church teaching.

It is not the same as Church teaching. People are not created equal as the Left defines the term. Church teaches that all are loved equally by God; they do not have equal talents. They are not all the same age or sex. Would you have the law treat an 80-year-old woman the same as an 18-year-old man? God gave us all different skills, abilities, and knowledge so we could help each other. The Left cannot make the outcomes of the lowly equal to those of greater talent, so it must necessarily “spread the wealth around”, to coin a phrase, by tearing down the gifted. The Left must undo God’s mistakes by depriving the talented [except those talented who are themselves Leftists]. The Left says men and women are interchangeable. That is how the Left defines equality.

You do know that the Left in America are not a bunch of commies, I myself am a Democratic socialist. I believe in democracy, private property and freedom of religion. Kinda like most of Western Europe.

Then I think you should go live in Western Europe and leave an alternative choice for the rest of us. After all, the Left “embraces” diversity, so why make every place the same?

But I also believe in following Catholic teaching that we as a group (or government) we need to do all we can for those who have less, who live in poverty in our society. This calls for a type of socialism that lend opportunity for those who have less.

Then why don’t you care that innocent people lose their jobs and that their property is now worth less than they owe on it? That’s theft. How Christian is that? Christ did not charge his apostles to use government to coerce people into the kind of charity you claim you are for, because it causes animosity between the haves and have-nots. People are supposed to be charitable out of love for one another. Leftism has the effect of being a detriment to the receiver because it keeps him dependent on the giver. FYI, both my sons delivered pizzas while going to school, and they both told me the most expensive satellite TV packages they ever saw were in the poorer homes, inhabited by people who could afford call-out pizza to boot! I do volunteer work in my parish’s the St. Vincent de Paul food distribution pantry, and we get people who say they won’t accept Brand X cereal and want Brand Y instead. So I wonder just how much real poverty there is in this country as opposed to a difference in priorities.

As for voluntary charity, forget about what the government wants you to do, your church requires you to charity. The Church is for forced charity.

Man, you indeed do have the most bizarre concept of Catholicism. God gave man free will; does the Church advocate taking it away?

As for the left hating religion, it simply is not true.

I invite you to peruse a few websites:

catholicleague.org
alliancedefensefund.org/issues/religiousfreedom/Default.aspx
thomasmore.org/default-sb_thomasmore.html?633593436

and then reconsider that statement. You might also consider reading Orwell’s Animal Farm in your spare time; it’s easy reading and only about 125 pages.

I have engaged in these “holier-than-thou” debates many times before and found them all a waste of time, so having said all this, I bid you enough said.

 

[sedonaman]

Social Democrats are not Stalinists, no matter how much rhetoric is thrown at the issue.

Of course not. But when the time comes to knock heads to force people to comply with the party line, the “Social Democrats” [or whatever they call themselves] disappear and turn over the head-knocking to the party’s enforcers. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The intellectuals left the dirty work to the Brownshirt street thugs.

 

[Lujack]

Of course not. But when the time comes to knock heads to force people to comply with the party line, the “Social Democrats” [or whatever they call themselves] disappear and turn over the head-knocking to the party’s enforcers. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The intellectuals left the dirty work to the Brownshirt street thugs.

So the Social Democrats in countries like Britain and Ireland and Germany are just waiting to let the Brownshirts take over and make the country communist?

Just because they are farther left on the spectrum than the Republican Party does not mean they are communist. Otherwise, the fact that the Republicans are farther right than the Democrats would mean they are anarchists.

 

[sedonaman]

So the Social Democrats in countries like Britain and Ireland and Germany are just waiting to let the Brownshirts take over and make the country communist?

Describing National Socialism’s academic roots, F. A. Hayek states, “It is a common mistake to regard National Socialism as a mere revolt against reason, an irrational movement without intellectual background. If that were so, the movement would be much less dangerous than it is.” – Hayek, F. A., Road to Serfdom, Chapter 12. “The Socialist Roots of Nazism”.

They don’t consciously await to let the Brownshirts to take over. I’m saying that Brownshirts are eventually required. But where were the intellectuals in Nazi Germany when violence was required to force compliance to doctrine?

 

[Lujack]

Describing National Socialism’s academic roots, F. A. Hayek states, “It is a common mistake to regard National Socialism as a mere revolt against reason, an irrational movement without intellectual background. If that were so, the movement would be much less dangerous than it is.” – Hayek, F. A., Road to Serfdom, Chapter 12. “The Socialist Roots of Nazism”.

They don’t consciously await to let the Brownshirts to take over. I’m saying that Brownshirts are eventually required. But where were the intellectuals in Nazi Germany when violence was required to force compliance to doctrine?

Look, the conditions that led to Nazism were extremely unique. A sense of national shame, 200% inflation, a desire for revenge, a highly militaristic Prussian culture, two countries unwilling to enforce provisions of the Versailles Treaty, and a brilliantly charismatic (albeit evil and mad) leader were needed to forge Nazism.

The intellectuals, furthermore, were probably cowed by those brownshirts, just like everyone else in the country. Either way,if vague similarities in ideology were enough to discredit an entire wing of the political spectrum, Russian anarchists in the late 1800’s would be enough to discredit the Republican Party. After all, they wanted less political control, too.

 

[sedonaman]

Look, the conditions that led to Nazism were extremely unique. A sense of national shame, 200% inflation, a desire for revenge, a highly militaristic Prussian culture, two countries unwilling to enforce provisions of the Versailles Treaty, and a brilliantly charismatic (albeit evil and mad) leader were needed to forge Nazism.

Nazism, as Hayek documents, was forged by intellectuals in the late 19 th century. Be that as it may, you can always find differences in any two situations. But I see a syndrome at work on a higher plane. There is nothing unique about “a brilliantly charismatic leader” using human emotion [envy, greed, shame, vengefulness, etc.] to win political support to gain office. That was the object of the fictional character Willie Stark in All The King’s Men: “You wanna know what my platform is? Here it is. I’m gonna soak the fat boys and spread it out thin.” After several failures, one of his advisers told him, “Make them happy; make them sad; make them mad; but don’t try to improve their minds.” Stark even had to use bully-boys to knock heads from time to time. His character was patterned after real-life politician Huey Long. Al Gore used an appeal to envy in his 2000 campaign: “I’m for you against the rich and powerful.” [The irony of the last statement is that Al Gore is one of the richest, most powerful men in the country.]
These similarities cannot all be coincidence.

The intellectuals, furthermore, were probably cowed by those brownshirts, just like everyone else in the country.

They were actually part of his regime to develop Nazi ideology:

"Victor Klemperer, a professor of Literature at the University of Dresden, already in the minority for his unpopular views on the French Enlightenment, and formerly a Jew, was expelled [from Germany] after the Nuremberg Laws were enacted. To his great dismay, faculty, former friends, and colleagues deserted him. He witnessed them grovel at the feet of the Nazis, compromise their consciences and bend their scholarship to the Nazi’s will. He observed the fake righteous self-interest of his contemporaries vying with one another to achieve coveted Nazi credentials. They were the guilty party, not the ordinary Germans. – “Heil Professor” frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=23293

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lujack View Post
The intellectuals, furthermore, were probably cowed by those brownshirts, just like everyone else in the country.

They were actually part of his regime to develop Nazi ideology

To the “present day” leftist/liberal, the “intellectuals” are always the good guys, because they identify with them as “fellow travelers”.

Since the leftist/liberal can always blame nasty occurrences of their ilk in the past on “special circumstances”, as Lu has shifted the blame for the invention of Nazism off of the “nazi intellectuals” (the “social and cultural eugenisists/abortionists”) and onto “insane quasi-Catholics”, the “purity” of atheistic (so-called) intellectuals is kept lily white in their insane logic.

:shamrock2:

 

[sedonaman]

I forgot to mention that 0bama played the emotion card to the hilt.

 

[CatholicLeft]

If you think Christ wanted gifted people to waste their talents because others less talented were envious, you have a distorted concept of Catholicism.

I would love for you to point out where I said this. I never said that those who are more talented should only recieve the same from society as the rest. There you go again with your “all lefties are commies” thing. There are basic human needs that we as citizens of a nation are entitled to per the Catholic Catechism…

1934 Created in the image of the one God and equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same origin. Redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ, all are called to participate in the same divine beatitude: all therefore enjoy an equal dignity.

1935 The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it:

Every form of social or cultural discrimination in fundamental personal rights on the grounds of sex, race, color, social conditions, language, or religion must be curbed and eradicated as incompatible with God’s design

1938 There exist also sinful inequalities that affect millions of men and women. These are in open contradiction of the Gospel:

Their equal dignity as persons demands that we strive for fairer and more humane conditions. Excessive economic and social disparity between individuals and peoples of the one human race is a source of scandal and militates against social justice, equity, human dignity, as well as social and international peace.

IN BRIEF

1943 Society ensures social justice by providing the conditions that allow associations and individuals to obtain their due.

1945 The equality of men concerns their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it.

1947 The equal dignity of human persons requires the effort to reduce excessive social and economic inequalities. It gives urgency to the elimination of sinful inequalities.

Is all your knowledge of the left from the writings of radical Marxists? You do know that most American Democrats don’t think this way, right??? Scary stuff

The Left says men and women are interchangeable. That is how the Left defines equality.

In some was they are, but not in all ways. A woman and a man can both go to medical school and learn to perform surgery. (something no one thought a woman was capable of doing 150 years ago) but they both can’t give birth. You need to find balance, dude.

Then I think you should go live in Western Europe and leave an alternative choice for the rest of us. After all, the Left “embraces” diversity, so why make every place the same?

And I think you would be much happier if you lived in the Middle East. Its a no nonsense theocracy that categorizes everyone in an class. Where the rich are always rich and they get to be the rulers and the poor are always the poor with no opportunity to move up. There is barely a middle class. Women are definitely not equal for they are treated like animals( not allowed to drive, must be covered from head to toe, must be escorted by a male relative, etc…).It might not be the Religion you prefer, but it has many other extras you may like, like strict interpretation of their holy books and sin against the church can carry the death penalty. Oh what fun.

Christ did not charge his apostles to use government to coerce people into the kind of charity you claim you are for, because it causes animosity between the haves and have-nots. People are supposed to be charitable out of love for one another.

Dude, have you ever read the bible. Have you seen what happens when you don’t take care of those who have less then you. This doesn’t seem like it’s optional.

Matthew 25; 31- 46

31 ‘When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory.
32 All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right hand, “Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome,
36 lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me.”
37 Then the upright will say to him in reply, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?”
40 And the King will answer, “In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me.”
41 Then he will say to those on his left hand, “Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me.”
44 Then it will be their turn to ask, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?”
45 Then he will answer, “In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me.”
46 And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.’

Man, you indeed do have the most bizarre concept of Catholicism.

Thank you, as do you.

I bid you enough said.

Again, as I do you.

 

[CatholicLeft]

You don’t care that innocent people lose their jobs, and their property is now worth less than they owe on it? How Christian is that? I thought you Leftists were all about caring for people.

I care about all people who lose there jobs including those who lost their jobs from Right wing libertism, lassie-faire free market corporate greed and corruption (like right wing Enron)

You have just committed the tu quoque argument

.

OH MY not the dreaded tu quoque argument
Is this a sin???

Not all uses of tu quoque arguments involve logical fallacy. They can be properly used to bring about awareness of inconsistency, to indirectly repeal a criticism by narrowing its scope or challenging its criteria, or to call into question the credibility of a source of knowledge. A legitimate use of the you-too version might be:

A makes criticism P.
A is also guilty of P.
Therefore, the criticism is confusing because it does not reflect A’s actual values or beliefs.
Example: “You say that taking a human life is wrong under all circumstances, but support killing in self-defense; you are either being inconsistent, or you believe that under some circumstances taking a human life is justified.”

I didn’t see in your post any criticism of the Left.

Wait around for awhile. I have no problem criticising the Left. Especilly if it’s the moderate corporate “left of center” trying to pass off as the true Left to the American people (i.e. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, the DNC)

An obvious misapplication of scripture.

Really?? Why??

 

[CatholicLeft]

Another characteristic of the Left is it re-writes history.

Do you have any legit sources to prove I’m wrong??? or re-writing history??

I’ll be the first to throw down my gauntlet.

business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article3579171.ece

Nothing in there about the government forcing anyone to do anything. Just a lot of de-regulating going on, including from that corporatist Bill Clinton. (see I do criticize the supposed Left all the time)

 

[CatholicLeft]

Of course not. But when the time comes to knock heads to force people to comply with the party line, the “Social Democrats” [or whatever they call themselves] disappear and turn over the head-knocking to the party’s enforcers. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The intellectuals left the dirty work to the Brownshirt street thugs.

Ahhh…try again. The Social Democratic Party of Germany was the last party to stand up to the Nazi party and eventually was arrested or killed for there bravery.

Subsequently the Social Democratic Party and the newly founded Communist Party of Germany (KPD, which consisted mostly of former members of the SPD) became bitter rivals, not least because of the legacy of the German Revolution. Under Defense Minister of Germany Gustav Noske the party aided in putting down the Communist and left wing Spartacist uprising throughout Germany in early 1919 with the use of the Freikorps. While the KPD remained in staunch opposition to the newly established parliamentary system, the SPD became a part of the so-called Weimar Coalition, one of the pillars of the struggling republic, leading several of the shortlived interwar cabinets. The threat of the Communists put the SPD in a difficult position. The party had the choice between becoming more radical (which could weaken the Communists but lose its base among the middle class) or stay moderate, which would damage its base among the working class. On July 20, 1932, the SPD-led Prussian government in Berlin, headed by Otto Braun, was ousted by Franz von Papen, the new Chancellor, by means of a Presidential decree. This development proved to be a significant factor contributing to the ultimate downfall of the Weimar Republic. Following the appointment of Adolf Hitler as chancellor on January 30, 1933 by president Hindenburg, the SPD received 18.25% of the votes during the last (at least partially) free elections on March 5, gaining 120 seats. These were not enough seats to prevent the ratification of the Enabling Act, which granted extra constitutional powers to the government, by two-thirds majority, as the SPD was the only party to vote against the act (the KPD being already outlawed and its parliamentary representatives under arrest, dead, or in exile). It still holds to this day a certain pride in being the only party that voted against it. After the passing of the Enabling Act, the party was finally banned by the Nazis on July 14, 1933.

Nazi period / SoPaDe (1933–1945)
Being the only party in the Reichstag to have voted against the Enabling Act (with the Communist Party prevented from voting), the SPD was banned in the summer of 1933 by the new Nazi government. Many of its members were jailed or sent to Nazi concentration camps. An exile organization was established first in Prague. Others left the areas where they had been politically active and moved to other towns where they were not known. Between 1936 and 1939 some SPD members fought in Spain for the Republic against Franco and the German Condor Legion.
After the annexation of Czechoslovakia in 1938 the exile party resettled in Paris and after the defeat of France in 1940 in London. Only a few days after the outbreak of the World War II in September 1939 the exiled SPD in Paris declared its support for the Allies and for the military removal from power of the Nazi government.

I think what you are thinking about is the Sturmabteilung or SA.

 

[sedonaman]

Nothing in there about the government forcing anyone to do anything. Just a lot of de-regulating going on, including from that corporatist Bill Clinton. (see I do criticize the supposed Left all the time)

You obviously didn’t read my reference city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html

Here’s another, an excellent analysis:
floppingaces.net/2008/09/22/us-economy-a-perfect-storm-of-housing-and-lending-events/#comment-115460

Even the New York Times, a known antagonist of Bush, sounded a warning as early as 1999 query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260 .

Bottom line on all this is that this crisis is the construct of the Left who tried to “spread the wealth around.” And we are in for a lot more of it under 0bama.

 

[CatholicLeft]

You obviously didn’t read my reference city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html

Here’s another, an excellent analysis:
floppingaces.net/2008/09/22/us-economy-a-perfect-storm-of-housing-and-lending-events/#comment-115460

Even the New York Times, a known antagonist of Bush, sounded a warning as early as 1999 query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260 .

Bottom line on all this is that this crisis is the construct of the Left who tried to “spread the wealth around.” And we are in for a lot more of it under 0bama.

I question the Legit of you first two refrences only for the fact they seem to be Right wing sites. and the third one may be correct, I wouldn’t be surprised that “NAFTA lovin corportist” Bill Clinton administration would of pushed this program through with the lie that it will help the poor , but really benifit the rich corporate banks. Kinda like how Bush’s team was lying that they had to take some of our civil rights away to keep us safe.

I state again, Neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama are the “true” Left. They are corporate moderates who are really working for corporate intrests and not the American people.

Good Posts.

 

[Mimi]

Apryl:
You are the one with the ACORN/ Gamaliel conflict. How do you know that others are not investigating or doing a background check? You can’t do any valid investigating or background checking by saying what you’ve said… your techniquest are faulty. With all the groups you mentioned, and all the churches that are sure to be affiliated, SOMEONE, I’m sure, has done some investigation.

Okay, I’m outta here.

My original intent was to find out if, in your area, your parishes are being asked to become part of groups affiliated with the Gamaliel Foundation; ACORN happens to be one with which (I thought perhaps) people could identify. I listed a few other acronyms by which these groups are going in my state. Apparently, it’s becoming the State of Anarchy.

WHO CARES and a digression into political opinion is the response I seem to be getting, except from po & sedonaman. Thanks, guys.

I fear people of good will are getting suckered into an organization from which they will not be able to extract themselves in the future when they are asked to support ideals and goals which are clearly anti-Catholic (such as abortion for one).

And Apryl, dear, I DID do my research. What I have found disturbs me profoundly and has fueled my activism, which is why I came here to perhaps garner support and to get at least some people to investigate in their own areas as to the nature and number of these groups. If you still want to label me “suspicious” I cannot stop you.

That our priest is jumping on this bandwagon and ignoring my please to investigate the connections of this group is also disoncerting, to say the least. I’ve had reason to distrust already and this cements that. I will keep praying for him and our parish.
Unfortunately, I am finding that the roots of this go deeper.

Bye everyone, and if I failed to mention other supportive posters, please forgive me.

MODERATORS, you may lock this thread with my blessing.

Happy Advent to all,
Mimi

 

[CatholicLeft]

I question the Legit of you first two refrences only for the fact they seem to be Right wing sites. and the third one may be correct, I wouldn’t be surprised that “NAFTA lovin corportist” Bill Clinton’s administration would of pushed this program through with the lie that it will help the poor , but really benifit the rich corporate banks. Kinda like how Bush’s team was lying that they had to take some of our civil rights away to keep us safe.

I state again, Neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama are the “true” Left. They are corporate moderates who are really working for corporate intrests and not the American people.

Good Posts.

 

[sedonaman]

…Kinda like how Bush’s team was lying that they had to take some of our civil rights away to keep us safe.

I have a yet-to-be-answered eight-year request of Leftists who think Bush turned the U.S. into another Nazi Germany: Where can I apply to be kommandant of the camp that keeps the Leftist professors, judges, and politicians? [Note that the accusation is always turning the U.S. into “another **Nazi Germany”, never “another Stalinist Soviet Union”. Fellow travelers perhaps?]

The absurdity of your charge is demonstrated by the fact that you continue to express hyperbolic anti-Bush rants without his men in black helicopters swooping down and hauling you off to some death camp.

I state again, Neither Bill Clinton nor Barack 0bama are the “true” Left. They are corporate moderates who are really working for corporate intrests [sic] and not the American people.

That all depends on your perspective. Being a conservative, I think they are flaming Leftists. Being way to the Left, you see them as Right-wingers.

Speaking of Enron, the Pittsburgh Tribune Review has this tidbit:

U.S. Sen. Barack 0bama’s presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now [ACORN ] for services the Democrat’s campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports.

An 0bama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. – a subsidiary of ACORN – worked in “get-out-the-vote” projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work, and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.

FEC spokeswoman Mary Brandenberger said it is not unusual for campaigns to amend reports, even regarding large sums of money.

But, said Blair Latoff, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee: “Barack 0bama’s failure to accurately report his campaign’s financial records is an incredibly suspicious situation that appears to be an attempt to hide his campaign’s interaction with a Left-wing organization previously convicted of voter fraud. For a candidate who claims to be practicing ‘new’ politics, his FEC reports look an awful lot like the ‘old-style’ Chicago politics of yesterday.

Jim Terry, spokesman for a group that tracks ACORN, said Citizens Services Inc.’s involvement in the 0bama campaign raises bigger questions. … All of this just seems like an awful lot of money and time spent on political campaigning for an organization that purports to exist to help low-income consumers,” said Terry, chief public advocate for Consumers Rights League, a Washington, D.C., advocacy outfit with a libertarian outlook.

“ACORN has a long and sordid history of employing convoluted Enron-style accounting to illegally use taxpayer funds for their own political gain,” Terry claimed. “Now it looks like ACORN is using the same type of convoluted accounting scheme for 0bama’s political gain.”

But, then again, I suppose the Pittsburgh Tribune Review is another “right-wing” reference.

You claim to be critical of the Left as well, but you said nothing about George Soros, the richest businessman on the planet, who funneled billions into Lefty political coffers; but I suppose that’s OK because he’s a Lefty who supports the “correct” causes. You claim to be concerned about corporate influence of politics, but I guess you don’t care any more about excesses of the corporate Left than you do about ACORN’s misdeeds.

 

[Apryl]

Okay, I’m outta here.

My original intent was to find out if, in your area, your parishes are being asked to become part of groups affiliated with the Gamaliel Foundation; ACORN happens to be one with which (I thought perhaps) people could identify. I listed a few other acronyms by which these groups are going in my state. Apparently, it’s becoming the State of Anarchy.

WHO CARES and a digression into political opinion is the response I seem to be getting, except from po & sedonaman. Thanks, guys.

Based on my earlier responses, you won’t be a bit surprised if I say

I BELIEVE THIS WAS YOUR ORIGINAL INTENT: TO HAVE THE DIGRESSION, RATHER THAN DIALOGUE. YOUR POSTS, THE WORDS YOU CHOSE, ETC, LEAD ME TO BELIEVE THAT WAS WHAT YOU INTENDED. NOW THAT YOU’VE GOT IT, YOU WANNA SAY ‘LOCK THE DOOR BEHIND ME’?

GIMME A BREAK!

I fear people of good will are getting suckered into an organization from which they will not be able to extract themselves in the future when they are asked to support ideals and goals which are clearly anti-Catholic (such as abortion for one).

Where in the heck did you get this from? Do you have any reason to believe that ACORN, or any of the groups you pointed to, support ideals and goals which are clearly anti-Catholic? Do you have ANYTHING to support that they support abortion?

Do you even read what you post before you hit the ‘submit’ button?

And Apryl, dear, I DID do my research. What I have found disturbs me profoundly and has fueled my activism, which is why I came here to perhaps garner support and to get at least some people to investigate in their own areas as to the nature and number of these groups. If you still want to label me “suspicious” I cannot stop you.

I don’t believe you (surprise!) If you did your research, you wouldn’t have listed groups that are NOT affiliated with ACORN when you started this off as being about ACORN, and you would not have posted what you posted - in a very matter-of-fact way, btw, if you had questions.

Did you, or did you not, contact your Archdiocese to find out if there was any cause for concern, other than the bad press that ACORN received this year over voter registration? Did you find out if the groups you listed actually do support anything that is anti-catholic, as you chose to post some 70 some odd articles into this thread?

You say you did your research… what research?

That our priest is jumping on this bandwagon and ignoring my please to investigate the connections of this group is also disoncerting, to say the least. I’ve had reason to distrust already and this cements that. I will keep praying for him and our parish.
Unfortunately, I am finding that the roots of this go deeper.

Maybe if you could actually point out to your priest what it is that you claim to be the problem he would listen. If you are in person as you have been in this forum, on this thread, I am not surprised that it’s hard to get the priest to listen to you. Your credibility is pretty sad.

 

[sedonaman]

Okay, I’m outta here.

WHO CARES and a digression into political opinion is the response I seem to be getting, except from po & sedonaman. Thanks, guys.
…
That our priest is jumping on this bandwagon and ignoring my please [sic] to investigate the connections of this group is also disoncerting [sic], to say the least. … Unfortunately, I am finding that the roots of this go deeper.

Mimi

Thank you for your kind words. I had [and still do] similar feeling when I found out that the USCCB funded ACORN. Who can you trust any more? The world is so complex and convoluted, that I wouldn’t be surprised if the Catholic Church was inadvertently funding abortion.

 

[sedonaman]

… If you did your research, you wouldn’t have listed groups that are NOT affiliated with ACORN when you started this off as being about ACORN, …

The title of this thread is “Warning about ACORN-like groups”. There are indeed other activist groups like ACORN, besides ACORN, mining the CRA.