Warnings about Harry Potter

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Dearly beloved brethren,

Cordial greetings to all posters on the current thread.

Invariably in discussions on contentious issues like Harry Potter or rock music there does come a point when continued debate becomes rather futile and fruitless. Inevitably the discussions follow a specific pattern: A states that the Potter tales are culturally unhealthy reading material for various reasons; B vehemently disagrees for various reasons; and A then responds by replying to the latest batch of responses to his responses, and so it continues. We know that both parties to the debate are fully persuaded as to the correctness and cogency of their own arguments and are therefore highly unlikely to revise or abandon their position, though it is, of course, just possible that they might, which is why I periodically engage in such debates. Given the choice, I would much prefer to be in debate with some Protestant chap on the Apologetics forum, endeavouring to convince him of the truth and reasonableness of Catholicsim and disabuse him of his inherited prejudices against the Church and its teachings.

Since it is my custom to take a breather from the boards at weekends anyway, I think this would be a convenient time for me to wind up and gracefully bow out of the current debate and bid you farewell, thanking you all for a very stimulating debate. We have, I think, found it possible to debate this thorny issue and at the same time avoid rancour and any breech of Christian charity, and given our topic that surely is nothing short of a miracle! (a round of applause is in order). All of us need to be on our guard in debates of this kind that we do not fall into being eristic, or adopting a disputatious mentality that descends into winning a clever argument and overwhelming one’s opponent, thus violating Christian character and often leading to bitterness of spirit or expression. Moreover, we should all avoid the temptation to fratricidal fights, remembering that we are brethren; whatever points or arguments we have to make let us make them but always speak the truth in love and pray for our opponents in the controversy.

In closing may I just say that I have been immensely assisted, as has been observed, in this debate by the excellent and learned articles on the Harry Potter series by Catholic author and artist, Michael O Brien, to whom I am greatly indebted. By way of research for this and other debates, I have read and re-read his cogent appraisals of Rowling’s works and they are by far the best in anti-Potter polemics. His argument when taken in its entirety is, in my opinion, both unanswerable and ananswered.

To dismiss Mr. O’ Brien, and other respectable commentators such as Matthew Arnold, Steven Wood, John Henry Weston, Vivian Dudro and Johnette Bencovic, who have all provided well-grounded appraisals of the Potter books and films, as “paranoid Potter- phobes” is derogatory and discourteous. Of course a man is free to strongly disagree with them, but to use that sort of phraseology is unbefitting of any Catholic.

Although I am painfully aware that in speaking out against the Potter tales I am voicing a minority position, I believe that one day the tables will turn as men again revisit the books and think about just what exactly is being communicated through these “subtle seductions” (Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict).

Finally, thankyou for your time ladies and gentlemen and God bless you and your families.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait:tiphat:

Pax

PS I recommend the new book by Michael O’ Brien, *Harry Potter and the Paganization of *Culture, go to his website for details.
 
Dearly beloved brethren,

Cordial greetings to all posters on the current thread.

Invariably in discussions on contentious issues like Harry Potter or rock music there does come a point when continued debate becomes rather futile and fruitless. Inevitably the discussions follow a specific pattern: A states that the Potter tales are culturally unhealthy reading material for various reasons; B vehemently disagrees for various reasons; and A then responds by replying to the latest batch of responses to his responses, and so it continues. We know that both parties to the debate are fully persuaded as to the correctness and cogency of their own arguments and are therefore highly unlikely to revise or abandon their position, though it is, of course, just possible that they might, which is why I periodically engage in such debates. Given the choice, I would much prefer to be in debate with some Protestant chap on the Apologetics forum, endeavouring to convince him of the truth and reasonableness of Catholicsim and disabuse him of his inherited prejudices against the Church and its teachings.

Since it is my custom to take a breather from the boards at weekends anyway, I think this would be a convenient time for me to wind up and gracefully bow out of the current debate and bid you farewell, thanking you all for a very stimulating debate. We have, I think, found it possible to debate this thorny issue and at the same time avoid rancour and any breech of Christian charity, and given our topic that surely is nothing short of a miracle! (a round of applause is in order). All of us need to be on our guard in debates of this kind that we do not fall into being eristic, or adopting a disputatious mentality that descends into winning a clever argument and overwhelming one’s opponent, thus violating Christian character and often leading to bitterness of spirit or expression. Moreover, we should all avoid the temptation to fratricidal fights, remembering that we are brethren; whatever points or arguments we have to make let us make them but always speak the truth in love and pray for our opponents in the controversy.

In closing may I just say that I have been immensely assisted, as has been observed, in this debate by the excellent and learned articles on the Harry Potter series by Catholic author and artist, Michael O Brien, to whom I am greatly indebted. By way of research for this and other debates, I have read and re-read his cogent appraisals of Rowling’s works and they are by far the best in anti-Potter polemics. His argument when taken in its entirety is, in my opinion, both unanswerable and ananswered.

To dismiss Mr. O’ Brien, and other respectable commentators such as Matthew Arnold, Steven Wood, John Henry Weston, Vivian Dudro and Johnette Bencovic, who have all provided well-grounded appraisals of the Potter books and films, as “paranoid Potter- phobes” is derogatory and discourteous. Of course a man is free to strongly disagree with them, but to use that sort of phraseology is unbefitting of any Catholic.

Although I am painfully aware that in speaking out against the Potter tales I am voicing a minority position, I believe that one day the tables will turn as men again revisit the books and think about just what exactly is being communicated through these “subtle seductions” (Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict).

Finally, thankyou for your time ladies and gentlemen and God bless you and your families.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait:tiphat:

Pax

PS I recommend the new book by Michael O’ Brien, *Harry Potter and the Paganization of *Culture, go to his website for details.
The fact that you managed to Google up some criticisms of the Potter books and films does not constitute a valid criticism. The Ratzinger letter has been refuted ad nauseum as again it is been shown that neither he nor the person who wrote his reply had even heard of Harry Potter and gave a rather general reply to one of the thousands of letters they receive. They accepted the premise of the letter which was demonstratably false.

The one thing I always take away from these threads is that those people criticizing them have neither read the books nor seen the movies and instead spend their days googling up even more and more bizarre criticisms of them.
 
The one thing I always take away from these threads is that those people criticizing them have neither read the books nor seen the movies and instead spend their days googling up even more and more bizarre criticisms of them.
sadly, this is my observation too. If peope did what I did and spend their time instead of reading secondhand sources to discredit HP and actually read the literature for themselves, they’d learn SO much more about the reality of HP. Rather than the opinions of a few people who approached the books with a serious bias, and misquote or stretch the books just to prove their points. The should base their criticisms on what is actually in them, rather than their warped interpretations of just plain misinformation.
 
sadly, this is my observation too. If peope did what I did and spend their time instead of reading secondhand sources to discredit HP and actually read the literature for themselves, they’d learn SO much more about the reality of HP. Rather than the opinions of a few people who approached the books with a serious bias, and misquote or stretch the books just to prove their points. The should base their criticisms on what is actually in them, rather than their warped interpretations of just plain misinformation.
They’re books for kids with imaginations, wanted to have more influence over their own lives, had mean parents, had enemies, were misunderstood, went to school, wanted magical friends or invisible friends, that is to say, anyone.

Rowling is able to write well enough and tapped into the right audience and made a mint. The books aren’t high literature, but so what? They’ve given joy to millions, either directly by reading them or through endless ridicule.

She’s not putting out blueprints for the Final Solution, holier than thou critics out to drop the pretensions, they’re almost as funny as Quidditch.
 
They’re books for kids with imaginations, wanted to have more influence over their own lives, had mean parents, had enemies, were misunderstood, went to school, wanted magical friends or invisible friends, that is to say, anyone.

.
There are also for adults who had nice parents had total control over their lives but were looking for some mindless entertainment to fall asleep with during hectic times at work. I alternate reading through the Harry Potter series and Lord of the rings series every other tax season as I know them all so very well that I don’t have to worry about following plot twists and characters-I already know them
 
There are also for adults who had nice parents had total control over their lives but were looking for some mindless entertainment to fall asleep with during hectic times at work. I alternate reading through the Harry Potter series and Lord of the rings series every other tax season as I know them all so very well that I don’t have to worry about following plot twists and characters-I already know them
That’s funny, I do the same thing myself, started years ago when recuperating from surgery at home and the only book within arm reach was* Return of the King *(Ace edition). It was a magical moment, to say the least.
 
If you have problems with Harry Potter then you should NEVER let your kids watch or read anything to do with

The Disney channel :including all cartoons and princesses etc.
Any kind of fairy tale like Grimm or fables like Aesop.

Or the Wizard of Oz

Or the Chronicles of Narnia

any movies or stories with talking animals

The list can go on.

I feel sorry for your children!

I am a devout Catholic and I read all the Harry Potter books, seen the movies, and have even been to the wizarding world of harry potter at universal studios in florida, USA.

I think morals can be taken from these stories just like wizard of oz or chronicles of narnia, etc. If you are so weak minded to actually think this stuff is real or to start running around trying to use the spells then you have a problem and need to seek mental treatment or to consult a priest.

They are fictional stories used as allegory to get a moral point across.
 
If you have problems with Harry Potter then you should NEVER let your kids watch or read anything to do with

The Disney channel :including all cartoons and princesses etc.
Any kind of fairy tale like Grimm or fables like Aesop.

Or the Wizard of Oz

Or the Chronicles of Narnia

.
I first posted this in 2007:

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Three Children are abandoned by their parents and sent to a large house in the country. There they disobey their guardians by going places they were forbiddne to go. This results in them ending up in a magical land where animal acts like Humans. While there they defy the legal govt of the country going so far as to incite revolution against the lawful goverment. After overthrowing the govt they pariticipate in regicide. Having deprived the country of its rulers and puting a vicious maneater in charge they go back through the wardobe and lie to their guardins about what they did…

There are many , many problems with this book. First we have the image of parents abandoning their children. a very traumtic thing for a child to read. Then we have the children setting a bad example by disobeying their Guardians and participating in mass mayhem Talking aninmals could lead children to believe that we are no better than animals(contradicitng the Bible) and could cheapen their view on the value of human life. Also their use of magic to unfreeze creatures to help overthrow the queen could lead children to dabble in the occult and of course the whole thing smacks of an “ends justifies the means” philosophy.

There are also many distrubing images that children should not be exposed to. Such things as a creature rising form the dead, a child selling his siblings out for candy and power and a pair if bickering beavers-surely reinforcing the already neagative view of parents presented at the biginning of the book The destructive myth of Santa Claus even makes a cameo appearance. And just what is the hidden meaning of the children “coming ou the closet” at the end of the book?

I would never let my chidren read such a horrid book.

 
umm Magic in the hands of Gandalf (and others of his order) is a morally neutral power that might be used for good or evil (ie Gandalf and Saruman) which they choose their own path. Again I fail to see the differences. 🤷
Well said. For some reason certain people read into the “magic” of Harry Potter these huge differences between it and the “magic” of Lewis’ and Tolkien’s fantasy writings. These differences just aren’t there.

Actually, the irony is that even Narnia contains occult magical practices - though they are unequivocally condemned as dangerous and immoral.

Harry Potter doesn’t have occult magical practices at all. It’s all morally neutral fantasy “magic.” Not even the bad guys use the occult.
Before I take my leave tonight, I leave the following thoughts for you to ponder upon:

In his book, *An Exorcist Tells his Story *(Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 1999), Father Amorth warns that modern man is loosing his sense of the reality of supernatural evil. As a result, he says, many have made themselves more vulnerable to the infuence of evil spirits who seek to corrupt and destroy souls. Father Amorth does not hesitate to say that *cultural *influences such as film, TV, music and books play no small part in the lowering of spiritual vigilance, "I was able personally to verify how great is the influence of these tools of Satan on the young. It is unbelievable how widespread are witchcraft and spiritism, in all their forms, in middle and high school. This evil is everywhere, even in small towns (pp. 53-54). He emphasizes that, knowingly or unknowingly, the practioner of magic always exposes himself to diabolic influence; “Directly or indirectly, witchcraft is a cult of Satan”.
So again, what about Narnia? Aslan awakens tree spirits and a river god to fight on his side in Prince Caspian. What if children start trying to research how to summon or invoke supernatural beings from natural phenomena?

Even that is closer to the real supernatural than the blatantly fictional Harry Potter “magic.”
Dearly beloved brethren,

Cordial greetings to all posters on the current thread.

Since it is my custom to take a breather from the boards at weekends anyway, I think this would be a convenient time for me to wind up and gracefully bow out of the current debate and bid you farewell, thanking you all for a very stimulating debate.
Farewell, Portrait. Thank you again for engaging us here. I do hope that if this debate resumes in the future, and if you decide to rejoin it, that before it ends you will address why Harry Potter is troubling when Lewis’ Prince Caspian is not, even though the good guys practice magic, including astrology.
In closing may I just say that I have been immensely assisted, as has been observed, in this debate by the excellent and learned articles on the Harry Potter series by Catholic author and artist, Michael O Brien, to whom I am greatly indebted. By way of research for this and other debates, I have read and re-read his cogent appraisals of Rowling’s works and they are by far the best in anti-Potter polemics. His argument when taken in its entirety is, in my opinion, both unanswerable and ananswered.
He’s a very competent writer indeed. But the articles by him that I’ve read on Harry Potter are deeply troubling in the profound lack of judgment they display. I couldn’t help but feel when I was reading him that we must be talking about a different series. Nothing fits.

And Portrait, you hopefully will acknowledge that you are ill-equipped to assess whether his arguments are “unanswerable and unanswered” when you have not only not read any of the Harry Potter books but are consistently informed that your statements do not accurately reflect their content.
 
To dismiss Mr. O’ Brien, and other respectable commentators such as Matthew Arnold, Steven Wood, John Henry Weston, Vivian Dudro and Johnette Bencovic, who have all provided well-grounded appraisals of the Potter books and films, as “paranoid Potter- phobes” is derogatory and discourteous. Of course a man is free to strongly disagree with them, but to use that sort of phraseology is unbefitting of any Catholic.
I do wish I could agree. But nothing short of paranoia can account for the bizarre and entirely untrue accusations that O’Brien tosses against the Harry Potter series. The argument, for instance, that the books embrace the paganization of fantasy literature by “subverting” the traditional symbolism of Christian English literature is literally the exact opposite of the truth: Harry Potter uses as Christ symbols and symbols of the “good side” the lion, the phoenix, the stag, etc. The serpent symbolizes Salazar Slytherin and all of the evil that the protagonists face; Harry even has to slay an evil basilisk in Chamber of Secrets, and his friend Neville slays Voldemort’s pet snake Nagini in Deathly Hallows.

There is nothing occult in the series, and their structure, character development, imagery, motifs, and literary devices are as in-your-face Christian as Narnia is (with the possible exception that there’s never just one Christ figure, like Aslan).
Although I am painfully aware that in speaking out against the Potter tales I am voicing a minority position, I believe that one day the tables will turn as men again revisit the books and think about just what exactly is being communicated through these “subtle seductions” (Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict).
Portrait, I genuinely worry when you cite quotes like that. You’ve participated in this debate before, so you must know that the notion that the Holy Father has expressed suspicion of the Harry Potter series has been discredited time and time again. I do wish I knew why you continue to say things like that. 😦
Finally, thankyou for your time ladies and gentlemen and God bless you and your families.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait:tiphat:
God bless you and your family, too. I’m sorry if my words crossed the line into acrimony or hostility during the discussion.
PS I recommend the new book by Michael O’ Brien, *Harry Potter and the Paganization of *Culture, go to his website for details.
I’ll read Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture by Michael O’Brien in its entirety if you’ll read How Harry Cast His Spell by John Granger in its entirety. Don’t you think that’s a fair proposal? We could both promise to have read the books by, say, January 2011.
sadly, this is my observation too. If peope did what I did and spend their time instead of reading secondhand sources to discredit HP and actually read the literature for themselves, they’d learn SO much more about the reality of HP. Rather than the opinions of a few people who approached the books with a serious bias, and misquote or stretch the books just to prove their points. The should base their criticisms on what is actually in them, rather than their warped interpretations of just plain misinformation.
Indeed. Plus, it’s telling that the pro-Potter writings of John Granger are always quite specific and textually justified.
 
catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=20546

🍿

It seems like Amorth is not the only exorcist with reservations about Harry Potter

causa-nostrae-laetitiae.blogspot.com/2007/07/mexican-exorcist-warns-about-influence.html

Anyway…
Have I read Harry Potter? No. Haven’t even thumbed one of JK Rowling’s best sellers

Did I use google to help me to decide whether to let my son watch it/read it? Yes bob I did.
Have I got time to waste reading HP/watching HP in order to form my judgment? No.
Does that make me unqualified to make a judgment? I don’t know. I am just weighing up the pro’s and con’s. I can’t state for sure whether Rowling’s work is good or bad. Maybe I am being ultra-cautious.

I also don’t like Disney movies or Star Wars or the Simpsons 👍 and my son will not be watching those under my roof

I know you’re wondering how can a child possibly survive without Disney/Coca Cola/Star Wars/McDonalds/Harry Potter e.t.c e.t.c. ?

Well it’s possible.

Our Lady appeared to St.Bernadette and repeated words something like this “I promise you happiness. Not in this life but the next.”:eek:
 
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