B
Brooklyn
Guest
It is very real, and it is a mortal sin to get anywhere near it. I have just read a book written by an exorcist just recently published, and witchcraft and spells are as real as you and I are.
- Status
T
Transformer
Guest
Brooklyn–
I read the entire excerpt. It didn’t even contain an actual argument. The only time in the entire article that the Harry Potter books were actually discussed, it was just Bro. Mary stating (without any explanation or evidence) that the Harry Potter books contain spells from actual witchcraft and that they “are so accurate to the worldview of witchcraft that it could have been written by a high-priestess of witchcraft.”
I don’t see the slightest shred of evidence for either of those claims. Which spells does Harry Potter borrow from actual witchcraft? And how might you describe this worldview that serious occult witches and J.K. Rowling share? If you can answer those questions without distorting the content of the books, then I’ll believe you. But that’s impossible, because J.K. Rowling’s worldview as expressed in Harry Potter is explicitly Christian.
I read the entire excerpt. It didn’t even contain an actual argument. The only time in the entire article that the Harry Potter books were actually discussed, it was just Bro. Mary stating (without any explanation or evidence) that the Harry Potter books contain spells from actual witchcraft and that they “are so accurate to the worldview of witchcraft that it could have been written by a high-priestess of witchcraft.”
I don’t see the slightest shred of evidence for either of those claims. Which spells does Harry Potter borrow from actual witchcraft? And how might you describe this worldview that serious occult witches and J.K. Rowling share? If you can answer those questions without distorting the content of the books, then I’ll believe you. But that’s impossible, because J.K. Rowling’s worldview as expressed in Harry Potter is explicitly Christian.
J
jwashu
Guest
I believe the Devil is real, and I have read all the FICTIONAL Harry Potter books at least twice and most 3 or 4 times.
You can find good or evil in almost everything… I find good wholesome CHRISTIAN morals in these books and the basic fight between good and evil which our children need to learn. The books are no different than the Star Wars movies for all practical purposes but I don’t see a lot of people protesting Star Wars…
What I tell people is to quit looking for the devil, there are enough Baptist doing that for all of us, and focus on Christ.
Truly I can’t believe there is even a thread about this…
Joe
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Can someone contrast and compare Harry Potter versus Narnia?
J
Jea9
Guest
I don’t normally chime in on these threads, but I just have to. I read the first 6 books (there are 7 right?) before I was Catholic. I was going to read the 7th until I discussed them w/ my neice who was 15 at the time and an avid HP fan. She seemed to give real credence to these things in the book, but I thought ‘surely she knows this is fantastical’. Then my step-sister, told me about a conversation she’d had w/ our niece. Her boyfriend had told her that he wouldn’t be at school the next day because he was going to use the chimney in his house to go to England for the day. 
My step-sister asked her if she understood the difference between reality and fiction (this is not her mom, that’s a different step-sister) and she answered in the affirmitave. Feeling better about it my step-sister was preparing to change the subject when my niece said, ‘but he really IS a wizard you know. We have performed many spells from the book and they work too!’ My step-sister didn’t know what to do. Honestly, this niece’s mother has all sorts of issues anyway…she is a lesbian living with her significant other, she plays ridiculous favorites with her children (this niece is the one that her mother ignores on a GOOD day), and she has tons of harbored anger and resentment. She is not a good role model, I KNOW that this is the reason that my niece thinks her bf is a wizard, and that he can travel to and from England in one day. When I looked at how susceptible she was to this, it really made me sad. So, yes I think that these books can be read without people (kids) truly believing them, but I think that safeguarding children is not ONLY the job of the parents and that it’s book like these that are leading our society away from God and Christianity.
PS
She has read LOTR, and Narnia books…she does not think they are real.
I am not sure what leads her to believe so completely in the HP books, but understand the difference between fantasy and reality in those other books. I, PERSONALLY, think that it is a satanic influence. Please, understand that I know that good, diligent parents can explain the difference to their children…but the fact that it is NEEDED is what is worrisome to me.
My step-sister asked her if she understood the difference between reality and fiction (this is not her mom, that’s a different step-sister) and she answered in the affirmitave. Feeling better about it my step-sister was preparing to change the subject when my niece said, ‘but he really IS a wizard you know. We have performed many spells from the book and they work too!’ My step-sister didn’t know what to do. Honestly, this niece’s mother has all sorts of issues anyway…she is a lesbian living with her significant other, she plays ridiculous favorites with her children (this niece is the one that her mother ignores on a GOOD day), and she has tons of harbored anger and resentment. She is not a good role model, I KNOW that this is the reason that my niece thinks her bf is a wizard, and that he can travel to and from England in one day. When I looked at how susceptible she was to this, it really made me sad. So, yes I think that these books can be read without people (kids) truly believing them, but I think that safeguarding children is not ONLY the job of the parents and that it’s book like these that are leading our society away from God and Christianity.PS
She has read LOTR, and Narnia books…she does not think they are real.
I am not sure what leads her to believe so completely in the HP books, but understand the difference between fantasy and reality in those other books. I, PERSONALLY, think that it is a satanic influence. Please, understand that I know that good, diligent parents can explain the difference to their children…but the fact that it is NEEDED is what is worrisome to me.
J
jwashu
Guest
This is the exception to the rule though, you can always find people that will believe anything. Shoot half the Republican websites in the US are calling the Holy Father a liberal because he states that Christians should actually take care of people in need…go figure!I don’t normally chime in on these threads, but I just have to. I read the first 6 books (there are 7 right?) before I was Catholic. I was going to read the 7th until I discussed them w/ my neice who was 15 at the time and an avid HP fan. She seemed to give real credence to these things in the book, but I thought ‘surely she knows this is fantastical’. Then my step-sister, told me about a conversation she’d had w/ our niece. Her boyfriend had told her that he wouldn’t be at school the next day because he was going to use the chimney in his house to go to England for the day.
PS
She has read LOTR, and Narnia books…she does not think they are real.
The point, to respond to someone elses post is that witchcraft is real. Most wiccans though aren’t casting spells they are just “worshiping” the Earth or Mother goddess (which Jack Chick btw says we are doing when we pray to Mary for a frame of reference on that guy and how much research he really does). However there are real books on spell casting and actual spells, not only have I see some of these but I have seen some strange stuff while doing research. No… I never participated, I’ve always been a Christian but I also believe it’s good to know your enemy so you can spot when someone is lying too you and the stuff in HP is nothing like a real spell. In fact the Fundamentalist Protestants and people like Jack Chick teach other protestant the world over that we, as Catholics, are really satanic because we pray repetitious prayers which is akin to what casting a spell would be like… something forbid by the Bible, especially if you take the verse out of context (there is nothing wrong with what we do, again Chick didn’t take the time to understand or ask question).
He and others are doing exactly what I see being done on this thread. While I’m not attacking anyone, it’s quite easy to find all kinds of stuff on the Internet and post links supporting your point. But what is YOUR experience?
The OP claims that these books are so bad, have you read them? For that matter have you read or seen Star Wars from my other post? Think about it… a boy with little hope of a fantastical life who lives with his aunt and uncle finds out he is a wizard (Jedi), he goes on all kinds of journeys and fights evil wizards (Sith) and eventually has to make a choice to either sacrifice himself to save those he loves or fall into decay… Same story… and you can find lives of the Saints that are similar, Greek Myths, Egyptian Myths etc… because these are stories that have been told for thousands of years because they teach us basic morals, right and wrong, good and evil… that is all. (Read Joseph Campbell’s “The Power of Myth”) And yes Narnia is a similar story as is LoTR (both of those writers talk about the Christian themes in their books)
For my generation it was set in a Galaxy far far away… for this generation it’s set in an alternative universe hidden in plain sight… neither are real. And yes I know people who believed they were Jedi… in fact I believe 3% of Australia listed Jedi as their religion in the 2000 Census… but we don’t say that is evil because the fundies, who happen to believe we are going to hell BTW too, don’t preach day and night because most people wouldn’t buy into it and thus it wouldn’t fill the collection plate.
HP is the big thing right now and preaching against it, just like preaching again Heavy Metal when I was young is the thing to fill the pews and get the money… that is the real reason you can so much on HP.
Again I would urge people to turn away from chasing the devil and focus on Christ instead. If you are in a state of grace and focused on Him, I believe you will be able to discern whether something is for good or ill if you take a chance to verify it for yourself.
Sincerely,
Joe
T
Transformer
Guest
I’m very sorry to hear about your niece, and especially her mother and boyfriend. I don’t at all think, though, that the satanic content in Harry Potter is responsible for her delusion, simply because there is no satanic content in Harry Potter. It sounds like she believes in Harry Potter magic rather than LotR or Narnia magic because Harry Potter happens to be the work her boyfriend chose to lie to her about. I’ll pray for your niece.
J
Jea9
Guest
How do you KNOW that my niece is the exception to the rule? She has a group of 10-15 friends who believe this. Really, you think this only happened once–in my town? Again, I will reiterate that I think that people and children can read these books and watch these movies and not fear that they will be drawn into this fantistical world believing that it is real. However, does that mean that NOBODY has a responsibility to these kids/adults that DO believe this because they don’t have role models? I KNOW that the reason that she believes in them is because she has no support at home and that the people who do seem to support her are a group of kids that think that they are wizards. But, is there no societal responsibility? An extreme analogy…there is another thread about a same-sex couple making out at a kids park…most parents here would say that while they don’t want their kids to see this sort of thing, when they do run across such inappropriate behavior when with their children, they are sure to explain to them why it is wrong. If there are children playing in the park that are exposed to this same scene, but do NOT have parents that will tell them why such behavior is wrong does that mean that the rest of us don’t have a moral responsibility to help put a stop to that kind of behavior? No, of course not! That’s my point…this series of books has done wonders to get children to read, there are tons of books at the bookstore of Harry Potter-esque stories. Dragons and fairies and wizards (oh my!)…and in slips The Golden Compass and the other books in that series. Coincidence? Maybe. Will I take a chance when I have kids?..no.
And, I disagree that Christian themes are extremely prevalent in HP books…that’s just my personal opinion. As someone who read them before I was Christian…NO, that is not what I took out of them. Not to mention in the later ones I think there’s too much makin’ out of the main characters. Again, my own opinion. I do not pretend to have the Magesterium behind me on this, I am merely giving my opinion! Hopefully, in good charity!
And thank you for the prayers for my niece, much appreciated!
And, I disagree that Christian themes are extremely prevalent in HP books…that’s just my personal opinion. As someone who read them before I was Christian…NO, that is not what I took out of them. Not to mention in the later ones I think there’s too much makin’ out of the main characters. Again, my own opinion. I do not pretend to have the Magesterium behind me on this, I am merely giving my opinion! Hopefully, in good charity!
And thank you for the prayers for my niece, much appreciated!
T
Transformer
Guest
Jea9–
I think there certainly is societal responsibility to care for children, to make sure they know fantasy from reality and right from wrong (though of course the first responsibility is with the family. But that has nothing in particular to do with Harry Potter, because there is nothing intrinsic to Harry Potter that invites or facilitates that sort of confusion. In fact, the Harry Potter books are an excellent moral teacher nearly all the time.
I suppose the His Dark Materials series is a “Harry Potter-esque” story in the sense that they share the primary genre of children’s literature and they both have a fantasy setting. But you will find morally and spiritually dangerous books in every genre. I don’t see how it reflects badly on the Harry Potter books or makes them dangerous that they share a genre with anti-Catholic works; there are contra-Christian works in every genre.
Along with literary critics like John Granger, I claim that the Harry Potter books are really, objectively Christian, regardless of whether or not that’s what any given reader consciously “takes away from them.” Harry really is saved by a Christ symbol in every single book. Literary alchemy with a clearly Christian aspect really does underlie the entire series. I didn’t notice these things when I first read the books either; I had to read a little literary criticism first. But they were there whether I perceived them consciously or not.
I have a good Christian friend who read the entire His Dark materials trilogy when he was a bit younger, and didn’t get anything anti-Christian out of them. That doesn’t mean they aren’t anti-Christian, in and of themselves. The same goes for Harry Potter; I am convinced they are Christian.
I think there certainly is societal responsibility to care for children, to make sure they know fantasy from reality and right from wrong (though of course the first responsibility is with the family. But that has nothing in particular to do with Harry Potter, because there is nothing intrinsic to Harry Potter that invites or facilitates that sort of confusion. In fact, the Harry Potter books are an excellent moral teacher nearly all the time.
I suppose the His Dark Materials series is a “Harry Potter-esque” story in the sense that they share the primary genre of children’s literature and they both have a fantasy setting. But you will find morally and spiritually dangerous books in every genre. I don’t see how it reflects badly on the Harry Potter books or makes them dangerous that they share a genre with anti-Catholic works; there are contra-Christian works in every genre.
There is a difference between what any given reader “takes away from a book” and what the contents of that book really, objectively are. It is possible for a person’s interpretation of a book to be accurate but woefully incomplete, meaning that there is really, objectively something important to the book that the reader missed. It’s also possible for a reader to interpret a book in a way that is downright wrong, inconsistent with the real, objective content of the book.
Along with literary critics like John Granger, I claim that the Harry Potter books are really, objectively Christian, regardless of whether or not that’s what any given reader consciously “takes away from them.” Harry really is saved by a Christ symbol in every single book. Literary alchemy with a clearly Christian aspect really does underlie the entire series. I didn’t notice these things when I first read the books either; I had to read a little literary criticism first. But they were there whether I perceived them consciously or not.
I have a good Christian friend who read the entire His Dark materials trilogy when he was a bit younger, and didn’t get anything anti-Christian out of them. That doesn’t mean they aren’t anti-Christian, in and of themselves. The same goes for Harry Potter; I am convinced they are Christian.
J
Jea9
Guest
Transformer,
What I was saying about His Dark Materials is that they came out after the craze for fantasy books for kids/tweens/teens/adults began. I think that a huge part of the reason there was this craze was because the HP books are wonderfully well written and that she really takes you into the world of Harry and company. This just increased the hunger for this style. Would they have come out when I was a tween and the books that my friends and I were reading were The Babysitting Club and The Boxcar Kids we wouldn’t have thought much about them. They weren’t real people after all.
Generations are finicky…
I definitely agree with you that people will take certain things from books regardless of what an author intends. What I don’t see with the HP books, however, is anything, ANYWHERE that J.K. Rowling says, ‘yes, I intended to give a good, Christian story here.’ In fact, I’ve just spent about 30 mins on her site looking for just that. She has a good site where she does a really good job of responding to rumors, news stories, and fans’ letters. I will say that in her biography and in responses, she does not discuss being raised Christian (that I found, keep in mind I was kind of scanning, if you know of where this info is that I missed, please direct me). In response to one FAQ, ‘do you believe in Fate’ she says that no, she doesn’t. She believes in hard work, and luck.
As for the question of whether she intends there to be any truth to the spells and whatnot…here is a link (don’t know if it will work so I will also relay the response) jkrowling.com/en/index.cfm where someone asks for a book of Hogwart’s spells. She states that she’s never given thought to writing one, and besides there are not any special ‘Hogwart’s’ spells ‘just general wizarding spells such as an accomplished wizard could perform if they’d consulted the right textbook’. Feel free to go to the link and make the decision for yourself as to whether you think she’s joking. She does not follow it with ‘of course, this is all fantasy and there is NO such thing as magic and what magic is out there may very well lead you to the occult’.
I am not saying I think that parents who take their kids to see these movies, or reads these books with them are wrong/bad/etc., I’m merely giving my opinion that I think that at best it’s a risk, and at worst opening the door the same way that playing an ‘innocent’ game w/ the Ouiji board is for girls at a slumber party. (boys too, but I remember girls ALWAYS wanting to play this at slumber parties)
ETA: I tried the link and it just takes you to the main site…this question was in FAQs which is the paperclips to the side of the pen container.
What I was saying about His Dark Materials is that they came out after the craze for fantasy books for kids/tweens/teens/adults began. I think that a huge part of the reason there was this craze was because the HP books are wonderfully well written and that she really takes you into the world of Harry and company. This just increased the hunger for this style. Would they have come out when I was a tween and the books that my friends and I were reading were The Babysitting Club and The Boxcar Kids we wouldn’t have thought much about them. They weren’t real people after all.
Generations are finicky…I definitely agree with you that people will take certain things from books regardless of what an author intends. What I don’t see with the HP books, however, is anything, ANYWHERE that J.K. Rowling says, ‘yes, I intended to give a good, Christian story here.’ In fact, I’ve just spent about 30 mins on her site looking for just that. She has a good site where she does a really good job of responding to rumors, news stories, and fans’ letters. I will say that in her biography and in responses, she does not discuss being raised Christian (that I found, keep in mind I was kind of scanning, if you know of where this info is that I missed, please direct me). In response to one FAQ, ‘do you believe in Fate’ she says that no, she doesn’t. She believes in hard work, and luck.
As for the question of whether she intends there to be any truth to the spells and whatnot…here is a link (don’t know if it will work so I will also relay the response) jkrowling.com/en/index.cfm where someone asks for a book of Hogwart’s spells. She states that she’s never given thought to writing one, and besides there are not any special ‘Hogwart’s’ spells ‘just general wizarding spells such as an accomplished wizard could perform if they’d consulted the right textbook’. Feel free to go to the link and make the decision for yourself as to whether you think she’s joking. She does not follow it with ‘of course, this is all fantasy and there is NO such thing as magic and what magic is out there may very well lead you to the occult’.
I am not saying I think that parents who take their kids to see these movies, or reads these books with them are wrong/bad/etc., I’m merely giving my opinion that I think that at best it’s a risk, and at worst opening the door the same way that playing an ‘innocent’ game w/ the Ouiji board is for girls at a slumber party. (boys too, but I remember girls ALWAYS wanting to play this at slumber parties)
ETA: I tried the link and it just takes you to the main site…this question was in FAQs which is the paperclips to the side of the pen container.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
*In my eyes, it’s no different than watching Bewitched, when I was growing up. It’s fiction. If kids have a strong religious foundation at home, they should be able to tell the difference between make believe, and reality. My kids viewed the books/movies as shear entertainment, nothing more or less. We are going to see the movie when it comes out next week…Ï am not into them, but they enjoy them.
There are no smoldering cauldrons in the garage or in their bedrooms, where they are cooking potions or concocting spells. lol Not to my knowledge, anyways.
Plus, the books show the contrast between good and evil…the only qualm I have, and my kids and I discussed this before they read the books, is that I dislike that the kids sort of take on evil, and conquer it with violence, with spells, etc…They don’t subscribe to a higher power, it’s as though Harry is the higher power. But, my kids know and love their faith, so again, this serves as another make believe type of entertainment for them. *
There are no smoldering cauldrons in the garage or in their bedrooms, where they are cooking potions or concocting spells. lol Not to my knowledge, anyways.
Plus, the books show the contrast between good and evil…the only qualm I have, and my kids and I discussed this before they read the books, is that I dislike that the kids sort of take on evil, and conquer it with violence, with spells, etc…They don’t subscribe to a higher power, it’s as though Harry is the higher power. But, my kids know and love their faith, so again, this serves as another make believe type of entertainment for them. *
C
Catholic90
Guest
So…how did the traveling to England through his chimney work for the guy? Please report back!I discussed them w/ my neice who was 15 at the time and an avid HP fan. She seemed to give real credence to these things in the book, but I thought ‘surely she knows this is fantastical’. Then my step-sister, told me about a conversation she’d had w/ our niece. Her boyfriend had told her that he wouldn’t be at school the next day because he was going to use the chimney in his house to go to England for the day.
I would LOVE to know what spells they performed from Harry Potter. Please call your niece and find out! Where does she get her wands? Is there a unicorn hair in the center of hers? How about her boyfriend’s?
I think her boyfriend is either playing HER for a chump…or SHE is playing her mother and YOU for a chump because she knows how to push buttons.
T
Transformer
Guest
Jea9–
Rowling has commented on the Christian content of her books:
hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=196
The article about her comments exaggerates a bit, but the core content is there, especially the quotes about the religious parallels being “obvious” and the two Scripture quotes almost epitomizing the entire series.
But I don’t think it’s a fair litmus test to ask if an author specifically confirmed a particular point of literary exegesis before accepting that point as valid. For one thing, Rowling’s works are not at all allegorical and they’re not at all apologies or morality tales for Christianity. They use Christian symbols and metaphors. It’s subtle, not didactic.
For another thing, great writers don’t sit down to write and think “alright, what are all the cool things I want literary critics to notice when they read this book?” Shakespeare didn’t sit down and carefully pre-plan all the crazy symbols and layers of meaning modern critics see in his works! He wrote plays to entertain audiences and sell tickets. Rather, the genius symbols and wordplay and such in his works either (a) came up as he wrote and revised or (b) was never consciously developed at all, but just sorta flowed forth from his skill and literary knowledge naturally.
Something similar can be said for Rowling. No, I’m sure she didn’t sit down and pre-plan everything Christian commentators see in her books (though she did plan a great deal, and undoubtedly planned some of it, especially the spiritual alchemy). Most of it either came up as cool ideas as she wrote, or just slipped in naturally (even subconsciously) from her extensive training in the (very Christian!) English literary tradition.
So I don’t think it’s fair to ask if Rowling has specifically confirmed the individual points of Christian content in her books. They’re right there in the works themselves. And furthermore, in a great work of literature all the genius shouldn’t have to be explained by the author; it should be obvious, as Rowling says the religious content of her novels is “obvious.”
I see absolutely no reason to conclude that the Harry Potter books are any more of a risk than any other children’s books that are heavy on traditional Christian symbolism and metaphor. They might be a risk to a child with a serious mental health disorder or almost no moral guidance, but so might Narnia. So might any book. They certainly aren’t dangerous in the same way an Ouiji board is! Ouiji boards are real occult objects, while nothing anywhere in Harry Potter has anything whatsoever to do with the occult!
Rowling has commented on the Christian content of her books:
hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=196
The article about her comments exaggerates a bit, but the core content is there, especially the quotes about the religious parallels being “obvious” and the two Scripture quotes almost epitomizing the entire series.
But I don’t think it’s a fair litmus test to ask if an author specifically confirmed a particular point of literary exegesis before accepting that point as valid. For one thing, Rowling’s works are not at all allegorical and they’re not at all apologies or morality tales for Christianity. They use Christian symbols and metaphors. It’s subtle, not didactic.
For another thing, great writers don’t sit down to write and think “alright, what are all the cool things I want literary critics to notice when they read this book?” Shakespeare didn’t sit down and carefully pre-plan all the crazy symbols and layers of meaning modern critics see in his works! He wrote plays to entertain audiences and sell tickets. Rather, the genius symbols and wordplay and such in his works either (a) came up as he wrote and revised or (b) was never consciously developed at all, but just sorta flowed forth from his skill and literary knowledge naturally.
Something similar can be said for Rowling. No, I’m sure she didn’t sit down and pre-plan everything Christian commentators see in her books (though she did plan a great deal, and undoubtedly planned some of it, especially the spiritual alchemy). Most of it either came up as cool ideas as she wrote, or just slipped in naturally (even subconsciously) from her extensive training in the (very Christian!) English literary tradition.
So I don’t think it’s fair to ask if Rowling has specifically confirmed the individual points of Christian content in her books. They’re right there in the works themselves. And furthermore, in a great work of literature all the genius shouldn’t have to be explained by the author; it should be obvious, as Rowling says the religious content of her novels is “obvious.”
To this I say, of course she isn’t joking! She was commenting on her books’ fictional setting! In her books’ fictional setting, apparently, Hogwarts does not have school-specific spells. If she were talking about real-world magic (or real-world anything), she wouldn’t have used the word “Hogwarts” in her sentence.
I see absolutely no reason to conclude that the Harry Potter books are any more of a risk than any other children’s books that are heavy on traditional Christian symbolism and metaphor. They might be a risk to a child with a serious mental health disorder or almost no moral guidance, but so might Narnia. So might any book. They certainly aren’t dangerous in the same way an Ouiji board is! Ouiji boards are real occult objects, while nothing anywhere in Harry Potter has anything whatsoever to do with the occult!
J
jwashu
Guest
Well said as always WG
J
jwashu
Guest
I’m saying your niece is the exception because there are million of children who read or have read this that don’t believe that… believing you can cast spells and that your BF is really a wizard at 15 is not he “norm” and thus is the exception.
As a former Youth Director and Counselor (in a Youth Psych ward) I would target the lack of parental involvement and role models more than any book or TV show. As parents it is our job to teach our kids, as WG said, what is reality and not. Think of the kids that murdered those people in CO those years ago and people blamed the game DOOM. It wasn’t the game, it was because the parents weren’t there, didn’t spend time with their children etc… to know what is going on.
That being said even the best parents and the best kids fall by the wayside from time to time. That is where we are all responsible to help each other pick themselves and their family up again IMHO.
I apologize if it seemed I was targeting your niece, I was not, I’m very sorry for what she is going through and will definitely remember her in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Joe
As a former Youth Director and Counselor (in a Youth Psych ward) I would target the lack of parental involvement and role models more than any book or TV show. As parents it is our job to teach our kids, as WG said, what is reality and not. Think of the kids that murdered those people in CO those years ago and people blamed the game DOOM. It wasn’t the game, it was because the parents weren’t there, didn’t spend time with their children etc… to know what is going on.
That being said even the best parents and the best kids fall by the wayside from time to time. That is where we are all responsible to help each other pick themselves and their family up again IMHO.
I apologize if it seemed I was targeting your niece, I was not, I’m very sorry for what she is going through and will definitely remember her in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Joe
L
lenni
Guest
It’s fiction!
and bsides most of her ideas are from LOTR which is made by a catholic!
and bsides most of her ideas are from LOTR which is made by a catholic!
M
mlchance
Guest
The one thing these HP threads so often ignore are the unavoidable facts that (a) the HP novels just aren’t terribly well-written and (b) the movies are even worse. HP may or may not be an evil influence, but it is certain that are more worthwhile books and movies to be consumed.
– Mark L. Chance.
– Mark L. Chance.
S
smswife
Guest
The main theme of the Harry Potter books is the redemptive power of sacrificial love.
If that isn’t a Christian message, I don’t know what is!
If that isn’t a Christian message, I don’t know what is!
J
Joe_5859
Guest
I think it’s important not to assume that Catholics who do not believe Harry Potter is a tool of the devil are not necessarily avid, unquestioningly loyal Harry Potter fans. They may, in fact, have good reasons as to why they believe the Potter books are acceptable. I would not classify myself as a loyal Potter fan. I’m just trying to be honest. (I think Rowling has succeeded in creating an imaginitive fictional universe that strikes a chord with many people, but I don’t think she’s that good of a writer stylistically…at least not like Tolkien or Lewis.)
I started a thread a while back that gives you some background into where I’m coming from. I thought the series was evil until I actually looked into it for myself.
I understand people’s skepticism of the series. It goes without saying that Satan employs many tactics to lure us away from the Lord. “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.” But these statements, true as they may be, do not constitute an argument against Harry Potter. They are generalities and one would need to take the next step of arguing precisely why these generalities can be applied to the Harry Potter books specifically. I haven’t seen that done successfully.
I’ve read books and articles on both sides of the spectrum (and lots in between). I recommend The Mystery of Harry Potter: A Catholic Family Guide by Nancy Carpentier Brown for an honest look at the series. It points to the good and bad elements of the books from a Catholic perspective. If you’re looking for a book that will confirm your current viewpoints and give you more ammunition in your arguments against Potter, try Harry Potter, Narnia and the Lord of the Rings by Richard Abanes.
There are lots of articles, too.
Anti-Potter articles
- Rome’s Chief Exorcist Warns Against Harry Potter [Envoy]
- Harry Potter: Agent of Conversion by Toni Collins [Envoy]
- Harry Potter and the Paganization of Children’s Culture by Michael D. O’Brien [LifeSiteNews]
- LifeSiteNews archive of Harry Potter articles [be aware that their articles claiming the Pope condemns Harry potter are *very misleading and are thoroughly debunked here, here, and here.]
- Harry Potter and the Christian Critics by Mark Shea [First Things]
- Sorting Through Harry Potter by Amy Welborn [AmyWelborn.com]
If one wants to dismiss the books out-of-hand, that’s certainly anyone’s right to do. But if someone wants to truly argue for or against Harry Potter, I would encourage you to be informed and look at what both sides are saying.
J
Jea9
Guest
Transformer,
I understand that an author doesn’t specifically need to say what their themes are for the works to have a theme…it’s just that I had never read anything from the author or interviews that she seemed to acknowledge this. I looked at your link and intend to read more about it. I will say, regarding the spells, etc., that she may have been making a tongue in cheek comment and relating to her fans on this topic…however, based on her other responses to other questions, it didn’t seem to be in the same tone. I have read countless people saying she uses real spells, etc, but honestly didn’t give that too much thought. **I **don’t know any spells, so how would I know if she were using some? I just saw this response to her fan and responded to it myself.
Catholic90,
Your sarcasm is much appreciated. I think it’s clear from what I was saying about my niece that she has SERIOUS issues. I do NOT think her issues stem from reading Harry Potter. I think that her issues are purely from having nearly non-existent role models at home. I will re-iterate that I think that these books can be read, and movies watched, by children without the same effects that my niece has. I think, however, that this can ONLY be done with parents (or other role models) teaching their kids right and wrong, fact from fiction, fantasy from reality. I think that there should just be a higher level of awareness. I DO think that it’s possible, despite what a parent does to arm their children against the powers of evil, that a child can still succomb. (note: again, I am not specifically talking about HP) I do not think that parents who allow their children to read these books and watch these movies are evil. At all.
jwashu,
Thank you for the clarification. I have a feeling that it happens more than just my niece and her friends…however, I agree that it doesn’t happen to the majority of kids that read the books. The joys of responding quickly, and without thinking
sorry! And thank you for remembering her in your prayers.
I understand that an author doesn’t specifically need to say what their themes are for the works to have a theme…it’s just that I had never read anything from the author or interviews that she seemed to acknowledge this. I looked at your link and intend to read more about it. I will say, regarding the spells, etc., that she may have been making a tongue in cheek comment and relating to her fans on this topic…however, based on her other responses to other questions, it didn’t seem to be in the same tone. I have read countless people saying she uses real spells, etc, but honestly didn’t give that too much thought. **I **don’t know any spells, so how would I know if she were using some?
I just saw this response to her fan and responded to it myself.Catholic90,
Your sarcasm is much appreciated
. I think it’s clear from what I was saying about my niece that she has SERIOUS issues. I do NOT think her issues stem from reading Harry Potter. I think that her issues are purely from having nearly non-existent role models at home. I will re-iterate that I think that these books can be read, and movies watched, by children without the same effects that my niece has. I think, however, that this can ONLY be done with parents (or other role models) teaching their kids right and wrong, fact from fiction, fantasy from reality. I think that there should just be a higher level of awareness. I DO think that it’s possible, despite what a parent does to arm their children against the powers of evil, that a child can still succomb. (note: again, I am not specifically talking about HP) I do not think that parents who allow their children to read these books and watch these movies are evil. At all.jwashu,
Thank you for the clarification. I have a feeling that it happens more than just my niece and her friends…however, I agree that it doesn’t happen to the majority of kids that read the books. The joys of responding quickly, and without thinking
sorry! And thank you for remembering her in your prayers.- Status