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Lost_Wanderer
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U sed it.Are people really still fighting over this?
Harry potter is harmless fiction. We should be fighting violence and poverty, the true horrors of the world. Not some wizard.
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noclevername
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Just about every single Disney movie has wizardry and witchcraft and witches, etc. Should everyone quit watching those movies too?
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Brenda_V
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Actually according to some people, yes we should and we should never let our children watch Bewitched or any other fantasy show (not saying the OP says this). I have met these people and respected their decision so did not let their children watch these shows if they were on (in re-runs) and they were visiting my house - usually not a problem because we didnât watch a lot of tv anyway.
To be fair, there will be some children who will take the idea of magic too far and look for other sources for incantations. But this is true if they read the Narnia series or Lord of the Rings or even some Fairy Tales. For some the story of Simon the Magician in the Bible will cause them to see what that is all about and explore witchcraft.
Raising our children to be able to discern good and evil is one of the goals of parents. Also, parents have the right and duty to make sure their children read and watch what they feel is appropriate. Our OP and a few others are of the opinion that Harry Potter is an evil book and set of stories, their opinion and their children. They do have the right to voice it here and hope to sway some to their thoughts.
Now, I have no problem with Harry Potter, they are not books to be read alone by children under say 13 or 14 but can be read as a read aloud with the younger set because as the parent you can stop and talk about the story as you go. Now The Golden Compass, I donât think there is an age that this book is appropriate for, not because of the magic involved but because of the overt anti-Religion and more specifically anti-Catholic nature of the books. They are also so well written that they easily draw you into the story. Talent like Pullman has has gone to waste for writing such garbage.
As always in these discussions, this is just my very humble opinion.
Brenda V.
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adstrinity
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Imperio!
You will go see this newest Harry Potter movie. You will buy tickets to go see it the first day. You will NOT read the book before hand because the last thing we need is somebody else who complains uses mockingly high voice âThe book is SOOO much betterâŚâ. You will come back to this thread and relate what you liked about the series.
Rita Skeeter Covers The Vatican, by John Granger.
I also recommend Grangerâs Book, âLooking For God In Harry Potter,â though, I think thereâs an even more complete book since HP7 came out.
Yes, that is because there are many non-English speaking witches and wizards who have the ability to do magic, but, they would need to prounounce the spells correctly. Same for the English speakers who would try to use a foreign spell. Saying the magic words properly is very important, too â never forget Wizard Baruffio who said âsâ instead of âfâ and found himself on the floor with a buffalo on his chest. â HP1, 171Transformer,
What I was saying about His Dark Materials is that they came out after the craze for fantasy books for kids/tweens/teens/adults began. I think that a huge part of the reason there was this craze was because the HP books are wonderfully well written and that she really takes you into the world of Harry and company. This just increased the hunger for this style. Would they have come out when I was a tween and the books that my friends and I were reading were The Babysitting Club and The Boxcar Kids we wouldnât have thought much about them. They werenât real people after all.
I definitely agree with you that people will take certain things from books regardless of what an author intends. What I donât see with the HP books, however, is anything, ANYWHERE that J.K. Rowling says, âyes, I intended to give a good, Christian story here.â In fact, Iâve just spent about 30 mins on her site looking for just that. She has a good site where she does a really good job of responding to rumors, news stories, and fansâ letters. I will say that in her biography and in responses, she does not discuss being raised Christian (that I found, keep in mind I was kind of scanning, if you know of where this info is that I missed, please direct me). In response to one FAQ, âdo you believe in Fateâ she says that no, she doesnât. She believes in hard work, and luck.
As for the question of whether she intends there to be any truth to the spells and whatnotâŚhere is a link (donât know if it will work so I will also relay the response) jkrowling.com/en/index.cfm where someone asks for a book of Hogwartâs spells. She states that sheâs never given thought to writing one, and besides there are not any special âHogwartâsâ spells âjust general wizarding spells such as an accomplished wizard could perform if theyâd consulted the right textbookâ. Feel free to go to the link and make the decision for yourself as to whether you think sheâs joking. She does not follow it with âof course, this is all fantasy and there is NO such thing as magic and what magic is out there may very well lead you to the occultâ.
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adstrinity
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And what about using names of the Saints?!! And personal growth?!! And pennance!!! Sirius Blackâs entire adult life was attoning for what he WANTED to do! How was he rewarded?!! The same way Our Holy Mother was!
It takes a brave person to admit that. I would like to condemn you as a witch, but, that would not be logical. Fortunately, there is a scientific way to determine this. We throw you into a body of water and if you floatâŚ
Austrian.
Yes. Yes we are still fighting over this. He is not just some wizard! HE IS THE BOY WHO LIVED! Itâs like this means nothing to peopleâŚwith livesâŚAre people really still fighting over this?
Harry potter is harmless fiction. We should be fighting violence and poverty, the true horrors of the world. Not some wizard.
Yes, but, not because of the wizardry aspect, but, because typically theyâre not as great as hyped up to be.
If you really want to see the witchcraft involvedâŚTHEY ACTUALLY PUT THE SPELLS ON THE INTERNET FOR ALL TO SEE!!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spells_in_Harry_Potter
hp-lexicon.org/magic/spells/spells.html
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Jea9
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Thank you SO much for this Brenda! You are saying, perhaps much better than I was
, exactly what I was trying to say! I was never condemning ANY parentâŚI wasnât even trying to change anyoneâs mind. I was merely giving my experience w/ my niece and thus why I would be more careful w/ this particular series. I just think that there are better books for kids to read that I wouldnât somehow have this fear in my head. 
And again, I donât have children now, but when I do I plan to take every book/movie/etc. individually and probably w/ each child. As I think every child reacts/handles things differently.SighâŚthatâs itâŚthatâs all I was saying.
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noclevername
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The Vatican gives the new Harry Potter movie two thumbs up.
cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2009/07/13/harry-potter-vatican.html
cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2009/07/13/harry-potter-vatican.html
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Jea9
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Iâm not sure this constitutes Magesterium teaching
ButâŚthe media can say what they want I guessâŚsame people who argue that what Cardinal Ratzinger said was NOT condemnation will be saying âwoo-hooâ to this oneâŚ
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shannyk
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Anyone going to the midnight showing of Half Blood Prince tonight? 
My daughter is dragging me to it at IMAX. Iâm not a fan of the books or the movies (YAWNâŚ) but it will be a nice mother daughter (rare) outing.
My daughter is dragging me to it at IMAX. Iâm not a fan of the books or the movies (YAWNâŚ) but it will be a nice mother daughter (rare) outing.
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Bluegoat
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Yes, I did know, and I disagree with the ultimate conclusion the Dark Materials series comes to. But, it treats the themes it addresses as serious ones, with real consequences, he can actually write, and there are many astute insights in the novels. It raises a lot of good questions that I would be quite happy for my kids to be spending their time thinking about. I wouldnât give it to young kids, but the writing level is too high for most anyway - there are lots of adults that donât get through it.
You give a lot of outside sources to back up your POV - have you read the series yourself?
Iâd give them that before Harry Potter, which is just brain candy.
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Jea9
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Obviously, Iâm not going to see itâŚbut on movies in generalâŚIâve never been to a midnight showing. I guess Iâve only lived places where they donât have those! What a bummerâŚit seems super fun! Though I tend to fall asleep by 9:30pm-ish so Iâd have to take a nap early in the day! 
Have fun w/ your daughter on your special outing!
Have fun w/ your daughter on your special outing!
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adstrinity
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NO! VERY NO!!!Anyone going to the midnight showing of Half Blood Prince tonight?
Not by my own choice, either! The earliest showing at the theater closest me is 1625 on Wednesday! THE ENTIRE WORLD IS GOING TO SEE THIS BEFORE ME!If I was still above the Mason Dixon line with friends not only would we have gone to a midnight showing, we would have cos-played FOR the midnight showing.
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Joe_5859
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Some people say yes, but, to be fair, many Potter critics draw a distinction between the way magic is portrayed in Harry Potter and the way it is portrayed in other works of fiction. Thus, people like Michael OâBrien have no problem with magic in Narnia or Lord of the Rings, but they have a big problem with it in Potter.
Personally, I can sort of see what theyâre getting at, but I find it to be a bit of a false distinction.
I always hesitate when a secular news source contains the headline âVatican says ______.â It is almost never the case. The above article gives credence to the whole âVatican condemns Potterâ which gives the appearance that the Church is flip-flopping on something they have never even spoken on definitively.
The headline should read that someone who works at the Vatican likes the newest movie.
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SaltySirena
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Nope. My kids are away at summer camp this week, so we will be waiting until at least Saturday to see it. Possibly Sunday, as it might be too much to do on the same day they come home from camp.Anyone going to the midnight showing of Half Blood Prince tonight?
So probably all of you, except Brooklyn and Jea9, will see it before me!
Hey, Al Masetti⌠are you EVER going to give any example of the pseudo-science you claim as the problem in Harry Potter? Or are you just going to sink back into the woodwork, yet another person who condemned or criticized the series while knowing nothing about it? Iâm leaning toward the latter, right nowâŚ
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Joe_5859
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If it makes you feel better, I wonât see it before you. My wife and I havenât been to the movie theater since we started having kids. Weâll be anxiously waiting for it to come out on DVD (probably in early December). For the price of two movie tickets, we can buy it on DVD, and watch it as many times as we like. Of course, it does mean we have to waitâŚNope. My kids are away at summer camp this week, so we will be waiting until at least Saturday to see it. Possibly Sunday, as it might be too much to do on the same day they come home from camp.
So probably all of you, except Brooklyn and Jea9, will see it before me!
Hey, Al Masetti⌠are you EVER going to give any example of the pseudo-science you claim as the problem in Harry Potter? Or are you just going to sink back into the woodwork, yet another person who condemned or criticized the series while knowing nothing about it? Iâm leaning toward the latter, right nowâŚ
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dixieagle
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Yup! We are fortunate to have both of our daughters and sons-in-law in town with us right now, and all of us, plus my husband, will be leaving shortly for the midnight show. We are all devout Catholics who know the difference between fantasy and reality, and who enjoy a good story. The kids are 24, 27, 28 and 29; you can extrapolate my husbandâs and my ages. We havenât been to a movie all together in years, and I canât wait.Anyone going to the midnight showing of Half Blood Prince tonight?
Gotta go find my invisibility cloak and get out of hereâŚ
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Catholic90
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My 17 YO will be there at midnight tonight.
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njmama
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Just my opinion, but the Harry Potter series raises significant questions as well (and without being as scathing as Pullman, I might add).
I also disagree with those who say it is just a story of good vs evil. Though I doubt she meant it, Rowling managed to present a case for virtue, especially virtue as it is discovered and expressed in youth. Potter brain candy? Hardly. And I respect the series portrayal of life as potentially redemptive, a rare theme in todayâs popular fiction and non-existent in the Pullman series, no?
I know, one more redundant comment on a long thread but Iâve been lurking on these Harry Potter debates for some time and had to chime in eventually!
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SaltySirena
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So, straying from the topic a bitâŚ
If I want to get myself and my husband a set of t-shirts, one that says âSquibâ and the other that says âSquibs are HOTâ does that make me a total geek?
My DH would have to wear the âSquibâ one, because after five babies, no one thinks I am hot anymore except him.
If I want to get myself and my husband a set of t-shirts, one that says âSquibâ and the other that says âSquibs are HOTâ does that make me a total geek?
My DH would have to wear the âSquibâ one, because after five babies, no one thinks I am hot anymore except him.
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Bluegoat
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Itâs true that there isnât exactly âredemptionâ in the Dark materials series - he suggests, I would say, that we have to provide our own redemption - that moral choices are something we need to take responsibility for ourselves, and that is what it is to be human. Certainly I would not say he is down on virtue - the heroes in the book are really asked to be heroic, and give of themselves for others, including giving everything they have - their life, the possibility of romantic love, etc. He seems to see good and evil as existing outside of the individual, rather than created by the individual.
Harry Potter talks about good and evil, but with rather less depth I would say. Maybe a little more than Dan Brown. Would you say that Harry finds redemption in something like god, or in himself?
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