Warnings about Harry Potter

[magic_stick]

For goodness sakes folks, it’s fiction.

2nd this.

 

[PatriceA]

For goodness sakes folks, it’s fiction.

Make that a third vote.

 

[Cinette]

*It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics practice artificial birth control, ??? are pro-Abortion, ??? voted for BO, and ??? love Harry Potter!

They are called “Cafetaria Catholics”

Cinette*

 

[PatriceA]

*It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics practice artificial birth control, ??? are pro-Abortion, ??? voted for BO, and ??? love Harry Potter!

They are called “Cafetaria Catholics”

Cinette*

So you are saying that the people in this thread that love Harry Potter, are cafeteria Catholics? It couldn’t be that the members that have posted are intelligent enough to discern for themselves that this is a piece of fiction and they enjoy reading it? I’m not a huge fan of the books, but I can respect that a Catholic can like the Harry Potter and still believe in the teachings of the CC.

 

[Cinette]

So you are saying that the people in this thread that love Harry Potter, are cafeteria Catholics? It couldn’t be that the members that have posted are intelligent enough to discern for themselves that this is a piece of fiction and they enjoy reading it? I’m not a huge fan of the books, but I can respect that a Catholic can like the Harry Potter and still believe in the teachings of the CC.

*In all fairness I cannot say that because my knowledge is very limited on this subject. Yet… I saw the first Harry Potter film when it came out and I have to say that I didn’t like it. It was dark… I would not like my grandchildren to go to the movies nor to read the books.

There are plenty of other books and movies I would prefer. How about Narcia and the like?

You will notice that I am a revert. I was a rebel and left the Church for 27 years and now I am back and loving it. My atheist husband converted 6 years ago and is now a daily communicant. We are crazy about the Church and love the Pope and the Magisterium. So please understand that we are like new converts and full of zeal and enthusiasm about the teachings of the Church.

Cinette*

 

[BlueShadow123]

*It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics practice artificial birth control, ??? are pro-Abortion, ??? voted for BO, and ??? love Harry Potter!

They are called “Cafetaria Catholics”

Cinette*

HAH! thats quite an assumption you’re making. Isn’t that something called ‘judging’? and isn’t that something a christian isn’t supposed to do?

Also too, as much as Barack Obama didn’t do as much as we wanted, I would much rather him in office than Sarah Palin (if something happened to the old mccain). Now that would be scary. She is not the brightest crayon in the box. And apparently I have millions of Americans who agree with me. Ive heard plenty of people say that who Mccain chose as VP was a huge turn off and I couldn’t agree more. My favorite is the time she was asked about foreign policy “oh well uhh you see, you can see russia from alaska and uhhh they are our neighbors. And ehh so is canada. alaska has two ehh neighbors.”

 

[Cinette]

HAH! thats quite an assumption you’re making. Isn’t that something called ‘judging’? and isn’t that something a christian isn’t supposed to do?

Also too, as much as Barack Obama didn’t do as much as we wanted, I would much rather him in office than Sarah Palin (if something happened to the old mccain). Now that would be scary. She is not the brightest crayon in the box. And apparently I have millions of Americans who agree with me. Ive heard plenty of people say that who Mccain chose as VP was a huge turn off and I couldn’t agree more. My favorite is the time she was asked about foreign policy “oh well uhh you see, you can see russia from alaska and uhhh they are our neighbors. And ehh so is canada. alaska has two ehh neighbors.”

*Palin is not to be taken seriously and I understand your view on her. However, as a Catholic can you honestly say that Obama is a good choice given that he is not pro-life, finances abortion and has not used the taxpayers money very honestly.

Cinette*

 

[twoangels]

*It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics practice artificial birth control, ??? are pro-Abortion, ??? voted for BO, and ??? love Harry Potter!

They are called “Cafetaria Catholics”

Cinette*

Oh my gosh. This is like saying “It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics use birth control, are pro abortion, voted for BO and SEND THEIR KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS (or) ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO GO TRICK OR TREATING (or) PREFER THE NO MASS OVER THE LATIN MASS (or) AREN’T A PART OF THE CHARISTMATIC RENEWAL (or) ARE A PART OF THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL.”

They are called “Cafeteria Catholics.”

Enjoying and thinking that the Harry Potter books are harmless is not in any way shape or form descenting from any Catholic doctrines or dogmas. No one is picking or choosing anything. Every Catholic is allowed to take and apply the teachings of the Catholic Church and make their own moral judgment over whether or not they’re going to read or allow their children to read the Harry Potter books. There is no universally set morally correct answer to this one. Both sides have their own points and reasons for drawing such conclusions.

I do believe in the devil. I do believe that practicing the occult is sinful. I do not believe nor does the Church teach that reading fantasy stories that involve wizards like Gandolf, Merlin or Dumbledore are immoral or even have anything to do with the occult. The seeming connection seems to be only that some Catholics have buried their heads in the sand and are only aware of the fact that Harry Potter is a fictional wizard and that in the past two decades there has been a growing interest in the occult. If you actually didn’t have your head buried in the sand for the last two decades, you will realize that the growing interest in the occult began before Harry Potter came out or was popular. Moreover, you’d actually be able to differieniate between the occult and fantasy fiction.

The occult is much darker, often involves a belief in a goddess and in spiritual powers coming from the different elements of the earth, and has practices that involve conjuring these powers to yourself to perform magic or to conjure spirits, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with the world of Harry Potter, where there are people born with magical talents and those that are not. It has nothing to do with magic wands, or creatures from classical mythology. In fact, if you think such elements are so dangerous, than you are baring yourself not just from Harry Potter, but from Beowolf, King Arthur, some of Shakespeare’s plays (if not all of them) and pretty much a great majority of world literature.

I’m not at all saying that Harry Potter is at all on the level of some of these great works. What I am saying is that the magic of Harry Potter borrows the magic from the magic in great literature and not from the occult.

Point being: Get your head out of the sand!

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks for posting the quotes. I’d heard the HP stuff was “bad” but it was nice to read what the church officials think about it.

Who exactly are you thanking for posting the quotes? There is no official church position on the Harry Potter books. There are individual opinions of various clergy, but they run the gamut.

This thread is over a year old, but I guess with the new movie coming out, someone’s google search led to its resurrection.

I would just add that I dislike the “it’s just fiction!” line as an argument to dismiss all criticism, but, having looked at Harry Potter myself, I would say that I do not find it to be diametrically opposed to the faith nor do I think it encourages involvement in the occult. There are other books out there (like L.J.Smith’s “Secret Circle” books) that portray witchcraft in a very “real” way. Books like that would be far more likely to encourage a kid to look into the occult. Harry Potter is nothing like that.

 

[faithfully]

Yes, Hundreds better… hundreds worse. But I’m thrilled to see a woman, who was as broke as broke can get, used the mind God gave her to tell a story and is doing brilliantly well. Wealthier than the queen it’s said. Me thinks some are terribly upset A woman is so succesful. So much so they look for evil and the devil in her books. As if books should only tell positive happy fluffy stories.

Can’t even comment on Harry Potter = abortion… the lack of logic in that statement renders me speechless.

 

[Joe_5859]

You have a bias against the series? I’d have never guessed!

As to whether or not it’s “badly written tripe”, I would say, well, yes and no. I understand some criticism, seeing as how the reading level the books were written at is pretty basic. But, from a story-telling perspective, Rowlings books are actually quite well-written.

Regina Doman from Sophia Institute Press puts it very well in their fiction submission guidelines when she elaborates on the Harry Potter Standard. Rowling’s use of plot points to drive the narrative has redefined what is expected of contemporary children’s literature.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, Hundreds better… hundreds worse. But I’m thrilled to see a woman, who was as broke as broke can get, used the mind God gave her to tell a story and is doing brilliantly well. Wealthier than the queen it’s said. Me thinks some are terribly upset A woman is so succesful. So much so they look for evil and the devil in her books. As if books should only tell positive happy fluffy stories.

Can’t even comment on Harry Potter = abortion… the lack of logic in that statement renders me speechless.

I think that’s a bit of a stretch to imply that those who look unfavorably upon Harry Potter do so out of some sort of latent misogyny. That has nothing to do with why the Catholics/Christians here at CAF have problems with the books.

 

[Melissa]

*It is said that perhaps millions of Catholics practice artificial birth control, ??? are pro-Abortion, ??? voted for BO, and ??? love Harry Potter!

They are called “Cafetaria Catholics”

Cinette*

False equation, to begin with, for there is no equivalency between the first three items in the list and the fourth. Furthermore, this is skirting very close to suggesting that Catholics who enjoy reading the Harry Potter novels are also engaging in the other practices listed. That would be a false assumption.

The Church has no formal position (and rightfully so) on the enjoyment of fantasy fiction such as the Harry Potter novels as well as other stand-alones or series in this genre. Therefore, there is no dissent from the Church’s teaching in the enjoyment of fantasy fiction such as the Harry Potter novels.

This doesn’t mean that everyone is obliged to read and enjoy fantasy fiction as a genre or the Harry Potter novels in particular. But criticism of the novels should be based on facts or opinions (which recognize that opposing opinions may be equally valid). By opinion, I mean here criticism of the Harry Potter novels on the basis that they are “poorly written”, as I have seen some express that opinion (I disagree with it, but I’m not going to waste my time arguing about it; most people with that opinion likewise don’t waste their time trying to convince me). By facts, I mean that a content-based argument should be based on what is the actual content of the novels rather than the straw man of imputing content which is either not in the novels at all or directly opposite what is in the novels and basing the criticism on the imputed content. For example, I have seen criticism which claims that the Harry Potter novels are “textbooks for Wicca” (a claim which cannot be supported by the actual text of the novels), criticism which falsely puts villains’ speeches into Harry Potter’s mouth, and other points which cannot be supported by the text.

I know the difference between fact and fiction, as do my children. I enjoyed the novels, I have enjoyed most of the movies (Goblet of Fire excepted … they made too much a hash of it, IMO); I do not, however, think that it is necessary to convince anyone to enjoy the novels and/or the movies any more than I think it is necessary to convince someone to read novels by SM Stirling, Dostoevsky, and/or Tolstoy (to list three of my favorite authors) or to enjoy a particular genre–although if someone were to ask my opinion as to a good book to read, I might suggest the Harry Potter novels, Dies the Fire, Crime and Punishment, or War and Peace depending on what I thought the person asking might actually enjoy out of the books that I enjoy.

 

[faithfully]

I think that’s a bit of a stretch to imply that those who look unfavorably upon Harry Potter do so out of some sort of latent misogyny. That has nothing to do with why the Catholics/Christians here at CAF have problems with the books.

I said SOME…

But you don’t think it’s a stretch to compare HP to abortion? Or that if you like it then your a CC? Or did you already address that above, and I missed it…

 

[Melissa]

Agreed–I’m sure that there are books that you enjoy reading, and I may like some of the same books and I may dislike some of those books. This makes neither of us “right” or “wrong” about the particular books/authors; it simply means that our personal libraries will not contain all of the same titles (even if there should be overlap where some titles could be found in both).

 

[3DOCTORS]

It’s amazing the debate is still going strong as the book series has already come to its conclusion, and the movies are down to the final two.

(Aside: I did once hear JKR was possibly going to do a sort of guide to the series. I just now recalled seeing something about that a year or more ago. Would have to check the status of that project.)

I never had kids, am permanently unable to, and the closest I would come would be if I married someone with kids. However, I’ve loved children’s literature into adulthood and so I enjoy discovering new authors or series that I enjoy reading.

Because I was taught by the priest who taught CCD (your mom or grandma’s PSR ) to discern about the values in pop culture, I learned that skill. I’m very thankful for that. And I have to “parent” myself even. All we adults should listen to our consciences. Like, obviously, I would never own a Ouija board or read Wicca books or anything like that.

The Potter series sounded questionable to me at first, so I avoided it for a long time. Also I hadn’t had good luck following plotlines in fantasy, even LOTR or Narnia. I have, however, liked sci-fi and mysteries for years.

Then while working at a Catholic bookstore, around the time Book 7 and Movie 5 were coming out, I saw the book The Mystery of Harry Potter published by Our Sunday Visitor catalog.osv.com/Catalog.aspx?SimpleDisplay=true&ProductCode=T497
which caught my interest and addressed my concerns thoughtfully.

So I started to read the Potter books and have since become a great fan. To me, the magic is more like the lightsabers and stuff of Star Wars. The moral issues (Harry’s misbehavior and lying, a tacit approval of revenge even by the “good” characters, the Snape-Dumbledore euthanasia thing, etc.) I read with my moral discernment detector glasses on, so to speak.

But supposing I did have kids of my own. Here’s the approach I’d take to Potter with them:

1. Make sure my own moral compass was calibrated accurately.
2. Make sure theirs were also, to the best of my ability - but knowing going into the series that there will be “teachable moments” when things raise questions.
3. If my kid was either a) too easily frightened by scary books, or b) had difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality or had obsessional tendencies with new interests, I’d steer them away for the time being.
   (I think parents should generally not attempt to provide their kids pre-selected reading material; when my parents or teachers did that, it usually wasn’t what I wanted to read. I read comic books and bland family stories and didn’t like adventure books as a kid, and I went on to become an English and creative writing major and get excellent grades in college. I say let them find books that interest them, and you reserve veto power over their choices in the case of a truly objectionable book. Make suggestions but don’t force them to read a particular book if they’re not interested. This includes Potter.)
4. Beware of the cross-marketing such as displays in the bookstore, which might include actual “amateur magic” and spell casting books, the Philip Pullman books which I would disapprove of ugh - I leafed through those and was turned off myself. In short, of you go to Barnes & Noble to buy the Potter book, either just get it and get out, or hover while your kids are by the display table. (Or simply check Potter out from the library.)
5. Watch for age-appropriateness. The books progress as Harry progresses from boy to adolescent to young man, and the subject matter does grow deeper, darker, and more complex - but so also do the “good over evil” themes that IMO make the books OK to read as literature.
6. Read the books together with your kids, or alongside, and discuss them. Same for the movies.
7. If with all these cautions your kid does show an unhealthy fascination with the magic part, sit down and have a serious talk with them. This seems unlikely to happen if you follow the above guidelines, though.

The same kind of guidelines can be used for teens into Twilight etc., with the discussion and veto power more firm if need be. By the teen years, too, kids should be taught to recognize literary genres, character and plot, storytelling devices and so on so that they will have a layer of objectivity to add to their moral guidelines, so they won’t totally immerse themselves or take something too seriously, and so they can recognize if a book is just too “out there.”

 

[Joe_5859]

I said SOME…

But you don’t think it’s a stretch to compare HP to abortion? Or that if you like it then your a CC? Or did you already address that above, and I missed it…

I, personally, didn’t address those charges because others had already done so. I find those claims to also be a stretch.

I used to think HP was “of the devil”, but when I actually looked at it for myself, I was convinced otherwise. I still like “Lord of the Rings” and “Narnia” better, but I don’t think HP is “evil.” Nonetheless, if a good Catholic family feels the need to ban the books in their household because they fear its influence, I can respect that. Most often, they are motivated by the desire to safeguard their children. I may think their concern is misplaced, but I certainly don’t question their motivation.

 

[spunjalebi]

I would just add that I dislike the “it’s just fiction!” line as an argument to dismiss all criticism.

First of all, I was not dismissing all criticism. If I had done that I wouldn’t have posted my drawn out response intermingled with sarcasm and opinion

I say it’s fiction because there are times where I think people forget we are talking about a book, which is contained within two bindings and has a lot of pages with written text on it. We can choose to open it and we can choose to close it. We can choose to not even read it. What people choose to take out of it is their own prerogative, but honestly there are times where I think that the HP evil debate goes so far we forget that there are much more tangible evils going on in the world.

If families don’t want the books in the home-- or any other books in their home for that matter-- their concern may be misplaced but their motivation is understandable.

If you don’t like horribly written tripe, it’s probably better if you don’t read it and therefore don’t need to state that it’s horrible. For this reason I don’t listen to certain kinds of music, watch certain kinds of shows, movies, radio stations, etc. not because I think they are “evil” or whatever, but because I don’t like the ideas and views which are presented. So people hardly hear me huffing and puffing about Britney Spears.

 

[PatriceA]

I, personally, didn’t address those charges because others had already done so. I find those claims to also be a stretch.

I used to think HP was “of the devil”, but when I actually looked at it for myself, I was convinced otherwise. I still like “Lord of the Rings” and “Narnia” better, but I don’t think HP is “evil.” Nonetheless, if a good Catholic family feels the need to ban the books in their household because they fear its influence, I can respect that. Most often, they are motivated by the desire to safeguard their children. I may think their concern is misplaced, but I certainly don’t question their motivation.

I too respect other Catholics that might not like the book and would rather not have their children read the series. BUT, I do have a problem when someone tries to “shame” other Catholics into making the same decision, as if Catholics that do like the series are somehow inferior or seriously lacking in the faith because they came to a different decision about HP.

 

[Joe_5859]

First of all, I was not dismissing all criticism. If I had done that I wouldn’t have posted my drawn out response intermingled with sarcasm and opinion

I say it’s fiction because there are times where I think people forget we are talking about a book, which is contained within two bindings and has a lot of pages with written text on it. We can choose to open it and we can choose to close it. We can choose to not even read it. What people choose to take out of it is their own prerogative, but honestly there are times where I think that the HP evil debate goes so far we forget that there are much more tangible evils going on in the world.

If families don’t want the books in the home-- or any other books in their home for that matter-- their concern may be misplaced but their motivation is understandable.

If you don’t like horribly written tripe, it’s probably better if you don’t read it and therefore don’t need to state that it’s horrible. For this reason I don’t listen to certain kinds of music, watch certain kinds of shows, movies, radio stations, etc. not because I think they are “evil” or whatever, but because I don’t like the ideas and views which are presented. So people hardly hear me huffing and puffing about Britney Spears.

My apologies. It wasn’t my intent to single anyone out with that comment or make an accusation. It was just my general, knee-jerk response to seeing that phrase. With all the “DaVinci Code”/“Harry Potter”/“Golden Compass”/etc. discussions I’ve seen, I’ve developed an aversion to it. I even started a thread about it once upon a time. I see now that I could have articulated myself better.