Warnings about Harry Potter

[Cinette]

*Maybe I am wrong and it is a good thing that I don’t have any of you present in front of me!!! LOL!

BUT…

I have not read any book of HP - just seen the first film… I choose adventure books for my grandchildren - Jack London is a favourite and there are dozens of others… Its like never going to MacDonalds and KFC. I choose the wholesome. I have never set foot in a MacDonalds or any fast food for that matter. I was born on the Island of Mauritius of French origin and my husband is Portuguese and we both like good food. Similarly we go for what we consider wholesome and authentic.

When I was a child I also read Lamb’s tales (stories of Shakespeare’s plays) I loved books like Little Women and went crazy for the British humour Jeeves for example. Enid Blyton and detective stories (Agatha Christie) It just never occurred to me to choose anything of the occult.

I will be criticised for this (and I confess I know very little or nothing about this) but I have never been fascinated with science fiction. I guess this is a personal preference.

I guess I should not be on this thread - how can I discuss something I do not particularly like or know anything about? Maybe an attempt to protect my grandchildren? Who knows?

If I have offended anybody I apologise.

Blessings
Cinette

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

you know, you’re right.

I think JK Rowling is the devils daughter.

How dare she make books about magic. Because you know, itll make kids turn into wizards and before you know it, we’ll be seeing our kids flying to school on brooms. Last thing we need is our kids casting REAL spells on us.

We all know that if our kids watch harry potter, when we come home, we’ll see owls flying everywhere, goblins casting spells, and the candles floating above the ceiling. Because you know, all those things would really happen if they were to watch the movies.Oh the horror!

Dude! That…that’d be pretty cool actually!!!

Seriously though, you gotta read the books and have a rudimentary knowledge of the occult before condemning Potter…I have to admit, I bought into the “Evil Harry Potter” line before I actually sat down and read the books…I remember laughing so hard by the end that I nearly busted my ribs! THe thought that anything in HP could be related to the occult or REAL “witchcraft” was just…LAUGHABLE.

It’s like saying reading “Cloudy with a chance of meatballs” instructs students on where food comes from. It’s just ludicrious!

 

[BlueShadow123]

Dude! That…that’d be pretty cool actually!!!

Seriously though, you gotta read the books and have a rudimentary knowledge of the occult before condemning Potter…I have to admit, I bought into the “Evil Harry Potter” line before I actually sat down and read the books…I remember laughing so hard by the end that I nearly busted my ribs! THe thought that anything in HP could be related to the occult or REAL “witchcraft” was just…LAUGHABLE.

It’s like saying reading “Cloudy with a chance of meatballs” instructs students on where food comes from. It’s just ludicrious!

Yeah I know. I love the movies. They are well done.
I’m not really into that type of genre but I really enjoy them.
And im not evil, either.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Yeah I know. I love the movies. They are well done.
I’m not really into that type of genre but I really enjoy them.
And im not evil, either.

The movies are okay…I’m more of a fan of the books, to be honest. The characters are far deeper and the issues (social and moral) are far more in depth. Not to mention all the nuances of the storyline that come with it. I suggest reading them if you haven’t already. I read them all, then got them on book-on-tape to listen to on my commute.

 

[BlueShadow123]

The movies are okay…I’m more of a fan of the books, to be honest. The characters are far deeper and the issues (social and moral) are far more in depth. Not to mention all the nuances of the storyline that come with it. I suggest reading them if you haven’t already. I read them all, then got them on book-on-tape to listen to on my commute.

The next movie comes out this friday. I’m so excited!

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

The next movie comes out this friday. I’m so excited!

Me too! We’re having a “release party” on saturday/sunday. We’re going to watch all the movies in order, have a little junk food (and homemade pizza!), then catch 7.1 in the theatre. I’m SO excited! It’ll be my first time to the theatre in over a year too!!!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Me too! We’re having a “release party” on saturday/sunday. We’re going to watch all the movies in order, have a little junk food (and homemade pizza!), then catch 7.1 in the theatre. I’m SO excited! It’ll be my first time to the theatre in over a year too!!!

makes mental note to finish the last few chapters of Book Seven that he has been neglecting to finish for over a year already >.<;;;

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

makes mental note to finish the last few chapters of Book Seven that he has been neglecting to finish for over a year already >.<;;;

DOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

YOU HAVTA finish them! It’s sooooooo good! fangirls out

Seriously though…composes self read them before friday. You’ll be glad you did!

 

[BlueShadow123]

Me too! We’re having a “release party” on saturday/sunday. We’re going to watch all the movies in order, have a little junk food (and homemade pizza!), then catch 7.1 in the theatre. I’m SO excited! It’ll be my first time to the theatre in over a year too!!!

Omg I wish I could join you!!!

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Omg I wish I could join you!!!

Well, that’s what you get for living in Wisconsin!!! And your negative Palin statements…but hey! No one’s perfect hahaha

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

DOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

YOU HAVTA finish them! It’s sooooooo good! fangirls out

Seriously though…composes self read them before friday. You’ll be glad you did!

Okay, forget the mental note. I gotta tattoo this reminder!! D8>

goes into Panic Mode while owl comes in with message

Somebody calm him down. Give him a Draught of Sleeping Death or Stun him for all I care. Just do it!

-signed-

His mother

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Okay, forget the mental note. I gotta tattoo this reminder!! D8>

goes into Panic Mode while owl comes in with message

LOL!!!

+1 for awesomeness to you!

 

[Cinette]

*To think that all the DOODS and HP fans :extrahappy::hypno: on this thread are PARENTS!!

Enjoy, have fun!

Cinette:wave:*

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

*To think that all the DOODS and HP fans :extrahappy::hypno: on this thread are PARENTS!!

Enjoy, have fun!

Cinette:wave:*

I’m not… much sadness

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not… much sadness

Neither am I for that matter… heck I’m still single for crying out loud. :crying:
I’d use a love potion but as a man, I have me pride.

 

[masha]

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I thought I’d comment on the Harry Potter books themselves, and the problems I see with them.

The books fail in many ways: they are not literature because they lack beauty, unity, and understanding. They are not quality children’s stories, because they are badly written, and because author seems unable to follow any one theme or moral, she is incapable of creating a believable world for her characters, or creating characters who are likeable in themselves - throughout the books, the reader is told that Harry Potter is Good, that he has an exceptional ability to love, Harry himself never displays this exceptional ability, and as the books develope, it seems he is being consumed with wrath. He is disrespectful, angry, bitter, self-absorbed, and dismissive. He is not a character to Like, nor is he a character to emulate.

I think the threat of Satanism is less serious, but I am not an exorcist. I will say that though the spells are “not real spells,” spell-casting is less about the words used than it is about the intention behind the words, the focus and the meaning the caster infuses in those words. Obviously real words cannot have there meanings altered so easily, but imaginary words have no infused meaning of their own, and it is possible for them to be manipulated. The “witchcraft” represented by Harry Potter is not at all similar to real witchcraft, it’s true, but at the same time it lacks the beauty and unity, the connection to the created world, that makes the magic of more quality children’s stories not only acceptable, but fully integrated into a Catholic understanding of the world. The “witchcraft” of Harry Potter is more a “magical” aristocracy from which those with magic look down on the “lesser” mortals - treating them with condesension at best and outright hostility at worst. Not exactly the lesson I would instill in my children.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

This link goes to a youtube video of a clip from the movie of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

It shows how obviously, unmistakably fantastical and dissimilar to anything real the “magic” in Harry Potter is. If anyone thinks there’s even a possible similarity between HP “magic” and the occult, just watch a few seconds of that and you’ll see how silly that fear is.

I have to admit, I bought into the “Evil Harry Potter” line before I actually sat down and read the books…I remember laughing so hard by the end that I nearly busted my ribs! THe thought that anything in HP could be related to the occult or REAL “witchcraft” was just…LAUGHABLE.

John Granger - the author of How Harry Cast His Spell - had a similar experience. He read the first book so he could better explain to his children why they weren’t allowed to read them.

He discovered to his shock and joy how delightful and profound the series is.

It’s like saying reading “Cloudy with a chance of meatballs” instructs students on where food comes from. It’s just ludicrious!

LOL! Good comparison.

Cinette: You’re certainly welcome on this thread! I encourage you to read more on this - even if it’s just other posts from this thread. I think you’ll quickly find that the Harry Potter series is actually very morally and spiritually wholesome.

Masha: I disagree; I think they’re well-written - at least after the first two. John Granger’s quasi-structuralist analysis of the series’ plot structure, character development, imagery, themes and motifs has identified and uncovered much profundity and wisdom throughout the series, along with an astonishing level of thematic continuity.

And Harry grows out of his anger/bitterness/pettiness as the series progresses. He’s not pure good, but he’s far from consistently angry. How can you ignore his journey from blowing up his aunt like a balloon in the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban merely for insulting his parents, to outright forgiving and saving the life of the man who murdered them at the book’s end? “The quality of mercy is not strained” indeed!

Or how about the way the train ride at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix parallels and contrasts with the one at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince? Harry is embarrassed to be with Neville in front of the girl he likes in the former, but he’s progressed so far in selflessness and matured so much by the time of the latter, that on the same train he outright defends - totally sincerely - his awkward friends from those who imply that he’s cooler than they are.

Harry can be petty, yes. But that no more does justice to him than to imply that he’s 100% loving and selfless. But he certainly is utterly selfless some of the time - most spectacularly in the climax of Deathly Hallows

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Also, for your last point - don’t you think it’s always the bad guys who are condescending to Muggles? The good guys, whom we’re supposed to admire, are quite the opposite. Arthur Weasley loves non-magical people, and all of the good guys - especially Harry - consistently defend them. The final book opens with Voldemort’s murder of the Muggle-loving “Muggle Studies” professor at Hogwarts, remember? (Her name is even “Charity”…)

Even Dudley gets some character development and has a moment of clear-sighted wisdom and thoughtfulness in Deathly Hallows.

 

[jwashu]

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I thought I’d comment on the Harry Potter books themselves, and the problems I see with them.

The books fail in many ways: they are not literature because they lack beauty, unity, and understanding. They are not quality children’s stories, because they are badly written, and because author seems unable to follow any one theme or moral, she is incapable of creating a believable world for her characters, or creating characters who are likeable in themselves - throughout the books, the reader is told that Harry Potter is Good, that he has an exceptional ability to love, Harry himself never displays this exceptional ability, and as the books develope, it seems he is being consumed with wrath. He is disrespectful, angry, bitter, self-absorbed, and dismissive. He is not a character to Like, nor is he a character to emulate.

I think the threat of Satanism is less serious, but I am not an exorcist. I will say that though the spells are “not real spells,” spell-casting is less about the words used than it is about the intention behind the words, the focus and the meaning the caster infuses in those words. Obviously real words cannot have there meanings altered so easily, but imaginary words have no infused meaning of their own, and it is possible for them to be manipulated. The “witchcraft” represented by Harry Potter is not at all similar to real witchcraft, it’s true, but at the same time it lacks the beauty and unity, the connection to the created world, that makes the magic of more quality children’s stories not only acceptable, but fully integrated into a Catholic understanding of the world. The “witchcraft” of Harry Potter is more a “magical” aristocracy from which those with magic look down on the “lesser” mortals - treating them with condesension at best and outright hostility at worst. Not exactly the lesson I would instill in my children.

Obviously you haven’t read the books… if you did then you completely didn’t understand them.

There is a great deal of beauty, the beauty is friendship, love and faithfulness. Harry’s battles within are just that, within, they are things many people go through at different points in their lives. The message to come through those is that sometimes it’s difficult to chose between what is right and what is easy.

The other point you seem to miss is that it’s the “Death Eaters” the followers of Voldermort are who look down upon those who are different from them. The whole idea of elitism and racism being wrong are often the secondary and primary themes through out the books.

It’s easy to dismiss something you don’t understand and haven’t studied as evil. I grew up in a Church where I was told often that the Catholic Church was evil, that the Pope was the/an anti-christ and they had killed the “true Christians” for almost 2 thousand years… while it didn’t take long as a child to realize that stuff wasn’t true, it took years of study and prayer to be able to not only accepts the teachings of the Church but be able to defend her against those who chose to live in their ignorance about her and the beauty of her Truth given by Christ.

My second grader has already finished and tested AR on the first 2 books and one person in his class is on the last book (in Second grade). We are having a Harry Potter themed Birthday party for my son this weekend and many of his classmates from our Parish school will be there. Some will dress up, others will not. The theme is appropriate not because in the books and movies people cast spells, the theme is important because the series promotes friendship, kindness, love and community and that those things are stronger than hate, anger and loneliness. When we talk about how Christ brings us that in our world, I think it’s a pretty good message for 8 year old.

Joe

 

[Portrait]

Look, I realize you’re sensitive about the derision often heaped on Harry Potter opponents, but you can’t expect to be taken seriously if you persist in blatant falsehoods. There is no similarity between anything real and the “magic” of the Harry Potter world. Even if a child did believe that HP was real by mistake, he’d know not to try magic - in the world of Rowling’s novels, ordinary people like you and I are utterly, completely incapable of “magic” of any kind.

Of course there’s no distinction in real life. But don’t you remember that the Chronicles of Narnia make this distinction, too? I just reread Prince Caspian, and though I don’t have the book with me at the moment, I distinctly recall a passage in which the good guys contrast white/good magic and black magic.

Why don’t you have a problem with the Narnia series?

Here’s another thing I remember from watching the movie of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix last night: a certain character explicitly stated that the ends justified the means. You know which one said that? Dolores Umbridge, a despicable villain whose views and actions the reader is led to despise and revile.

Not exactly pro-relativism, is it?

Apparently he does, as the “magic”-based criticisms of Harry Potter apply equally well to the Chronicles of Narnia, but no one seems to have a problem with those. It’s a double standard. But Father Amorth, who probably deals with supernatural evil all the time, most likely has a good excuse to be a little paranoid.

We do not.

Dear FoneBone2001,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your responses to my post.

First, magic is really all about taking control in areas of life where man is forbidden to encroach upon. In numerous passages in the Old and New Testaments, the warnings remain unwavering and unnuanced - “When you come into the land the Lord your God gives you, you shall not to follow the abominable practices of those nations (i.e. the Cananites). There shall not be found among you…anyone who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an auger, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord” (Deut. 18: 9-12). In the Acts SS Peter and Paul confront the power of magicians with the utmost severity (read the account of the seven “sons of Sceva” in Acts 19: 11-20).

Now children are taught in Rowling’s world of wizardry to manipulate undefined forces and to submit themselves to no higher a law than the wizard authorities who will assist them to exercise their powers “wisely”, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Second, all practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers so as to place them at one’s service and have supernatural powers over others are manifestly wrong and gravely contrary to the virtue of true religion.

Third, whilst it is freely admitted that Rowling posits the “good” use of occult powers against their misuse, thus imparting to her tales a sort of aura of morality, the cumulative effect is to shift the readers understanding of the battle lines between good and evil. Moreover, the line of demarcation is never defined. That is unacceptable, especially in books intended for children, even if it is only a fantasy work of fiction. The archetype of “misuse” is Voldemort, whose brutal cruelty and will to power is blatantly evil. Nevertheless, the reader is lulled into minimizing or forgeting entirely that the Harry character, and many of the other supposedly good characters, frequently employ the selfsame powers on a lesser scale, allegedly for good ends. The spurious notion that “the end justifies the means” is the very un-Christian subtext throughout.

Finally, however much the pro-Potterites attempt to equate Rowling’s books with the Chronicles of Narnia and the Lord of the Rings, there is just no parity between them. Both of those classic British works show a transcendence and the beauty of the infinite, whereas the Potter books have an inverted and very muddled spirituality, a world where bad is good. In fact it is this which renders them eminently unsatisfactory, especially for the young who’s minds are being forged at every turn - “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter” (Isaiah 5: 20). Surely children’s author’s have a moral responsibility to their young and impressionable readers to ensure that they do cause the little ones to stumble and deviate from their innocence (cf. St. Matt. 18: 5). Interestingly, two years before he was elected Pope, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a letter to a supporter calling the Potter story “a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it really grows properly”. An excellent summation of what is fundamentally amiss with Rowling’s inferior books, just that, “a subtle seduction” - hear, hear.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax