Was Adam in union with God?

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

First of all, I’m going to assume we won’t be able to sin in heaven… Right? I suppose it would be to do with being in the constant presence of God’s love and being perfectly united with Him… Right? I mean, you could say our will just becomes God’s Will.

Anyway, so my question is, why didn’t God put Adam in this same position? There was no sin separating them, so I’m just unsure as to why God didn’t just give him the same status that we would have in heaven? Why didn’t He unite Himself to Adam in the same way we will be united in heaven?

And thirdly, does this mean that we’re better off that Adam sinned, because through his sin we received the amazing gift of Jesus, and a heaven that provides a far better life than Adam ever had? If original sin never happened, would we ever be able to have acheived such a union with God, or would we forever just live on a perfect earth?

 

[simpleas]

wish i had the intelligents to answer these questions, interested in the repliesopcorn:

 

[Elmawa]

It’s my guess that you are able to sin there, BUT you will be ejected if you do. Think of the Angels, Lucifer was once a very powerful Angel, but he fell because he wanted more than what was allotted to him. We are led to believe that other Angels have fallen as well, and that they became demons. Based on that I believe that we can still sin in Heaven, but like I said, if you do you would probably have to leave like the fallen Angels had to. We, I assume, will still have our knowledge of good and evil. However, that said, in order to get into heaven you have to first over come sin, basically you have to become a Saint! You can either do that here on earth like the Saints we know, or you can do it in Purgatory.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt, no one can really know what happens in the after life and how that is governed, but these are my assumptions/thoughts and things that I’ve heard/read.

As to, “are we better off”…hard to say, yes we got Jesus and all the things that happened for us as a result of the original sin. But those things never should needed to happen. Who knows what God would have done with us if we hadn’t disobeyed? Maybe we would be allowed to visit him in Heaven if we wanted to? If it were possible, we could ask the people who ended up in Hell if they feel we are better off?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

My best attempts at answers:

1. In heaven, our will is not replaced by God’s will. Those who go heaven freely choose to align their will with His. Insofar as heaven is the state of eternally accepting God, and Hell the state of eternally rejecting Him, you could say that those of us who (would/do) choose to sin even after seeing God so clearly are exactly those of us who are in Hell.

So it’s not that our will is supplanted. It’s that we recognize that God’s will is best and agree to follow it - and that we continue to do so.

1. Speculation Warning: It’s hard to say, exactly. Adam was in a good state, but any creature can always be in a better state than it actually is. One can always ask why someone wasn’t created better. My theory is that God desires to allow His creatures to set their own “maximum,” as it were. That is, even in heaven, while all are as well of as they can be and are absolutely content with that, some are more well off than others (all glasses are full, not all glasses are the same time. And if this becomes fixed upon seeing God in heaven, then we can use our time before then to sort of participate in determining what exactly we will end up being.
2. It is true that what is gained through Christ is better than what Adam lost, but it is not clear what would have happened had Adam not sinned. But we do know that while God respects our choices, He knows them “ahead of time” (outside of time is probably better) and so brings the best possible outcome out of them. It’s hard to talk about conditionals with God: God knew Adam would sin from the beginning, so it’s hard to say He would have done X if Adam had not - there simply was no “if not,” from God’s perspective. So good did come out of evil, but it is hard to say what would have come out of the alternative good.

 

[1ke]

Anyway, so my question is, why didn’t God put Adam in this same position? There was no sin separating them, so I’m just unsure as to why God didn’t just give him the same status that we would have in heaven? Why didn’t He unite Himself to Adam in the same way we will be united in heaven?

Adam was in original innocence, possessing supernatural grace and preternatural gifts. He had not yet entered into the Beatific Vision. That is something that must be chosen. the angels also made their choice prior to being admitted to the Beatific Vision.

And thirdly, does this mean that we’re better off that Adam sinned, because through his sin we received the amazing gift of Jesus, and a heaven that provides a far better life than Adam ever had?

No. It means that God is merciful and that when Adam failed to cooperate with God’s perfect will, God gave us a second chance at the Beatific Vision.

Adam and Eve were meant for union with God, the Beatific Vision.

If original sin never happened, would we ever be able to have acheived such a union with God, or would we forever just live on a perfect earth?

Yes. We were and are destined for the Beatific Vision.

 

[edwest2]

The Church tells us: "They possessed the preternatural gifts of:

impassibility (freedom from pain)
immortality (freedom from death)
integrity (freedom from concupiscence, or disordered
desires)
infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters
essential for happiness)

“They were not inclined to do evil; their understanding and reason were not darkened by pride or lust; they had a perfect knowledge of the moral law; they did not experience any opposition between the spirit and the body; and all of the parts of the soul existed in a state of order and harmony in relation to one another. The material world was a paradise that supported human life; work was a source of pleasure and accomplishment; and all of the human faculties were able to function and flourish to their fullest potential.”

Adam was in a state of union with God, as was Eve.

Peace,
Ed

 

[onenow1]

First of all, I’m going to assume we won’t be able to sin in heaven… Right? I suppose it would be to do with being in the constant presence of God’s love and being perfectly united with Him… Right? I mean, you could say our will just becomes God’s Will.

Anyway, so my question is, why didn’t God put Adam in this same position? There was no sin separating them, so I’m just unsure as to why God didn’t just give him the same status that we would have in heaven? Why didn’t He unite Himself to Adam in the same way we will be united in heaven?

And thirdly, does this mean that we’re better off that Adam sinned, because through his sin we received the amazing gift of Jesus, and a heaven that provides a far better life than Adam ever had? If original sin never happened, would we ever be able to have acheived such a union with God, or would we forever just live on a perfect earth?

Hi, Sultan, Heres two answers from scripture that may help.

Gen.3:

 

[onenow1]

First of all, I’m going to assume we won’t be able to sin in heaven… Right? I suppose it would be to do with being in the constant presence of God’s love and being perfectly united with Him… Right? I mean, you could say our will just becomes God’s Will.

Anyway, so my question is, why didn’t God put Adam in this same position? There was no sin separating them, so I’m just unsure as to why God didn’t just give him the same status that we would have in heaven? Why didn’t He unite Himself to Adam in the same way we will be united in heaven?

And thirdly, does this mean that we’re better off that Adam sinned, because through his sin we received the amazing gift of Jesus, and a heaven that provides a far better life than Adam ever had? If original sin never happened, would we ever be able to have acheived such a union with God, or would we forever just live on a perfect earth?

Hi,Sultan ! Here are two scriptures that may help. Genesis 3:8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of thee in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

“Notice they heard the sound of God in the garden, would that not suggest originally they were familiar with God being in the garden with them. They must have really done something wrong to lose this communion with God as friend. Of course we know sin entered the world through disobedience.”

John 17: 20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.

Read more: ewtn.com/ewtn/bible/search_bible.asp#ixzz2d7EcOpNh

God Bless,hope this helps a little !
Onenow1

 

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

Great answers all, thanks.

Adam was in original innocence, possessing supernatural grace and preternatural gifts. He had not yet entered into the Beatific Vision. That is something that must be chosen. the angels also made their choice prior to being admitted to the Beatific Vision.

No. It means that God is merciful and that when Adam failed to cooperate with God’s perfect will, God gave us a second chance at the Beatific Vision.

Adam and Eve were meant for union with God, the Beatific Vision.

Yes. We were and are destined for the Beatific Vision.

So then eventually Adam and Eve would have achieved the beatific vision? I’m guessing it would have been similar to the same we will have on the glorified earth?

Great answer, by the way. Makes a lot of sense.