Was Adam the first man or not?

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Tim (Orogeny) has it right. The modern Popes darn well know about all the previous statements of the Popes and Councils, etc. Competent orthodox Catholic theologians wrote that statement overseen by Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI. They know the dogma of the Church, and they know the science.

As for the “bodily immortality” of Adam/Eve question, here is one orthodox Catholic answer from Dennis Bonnette and his book Origin of the Human Species. The theological / philosophical material in the book is good, but the science in my opinion is sometimes lacking (Bonnette is a philosopher, not a scientist).

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In the 1950 papal encyclical Humani Generis (Concerning Some False Opinions Which Threaten to Undermine the Foundations of Catholic Doctrine), Pope Pius XII stated that we may speculate on bodily evolution, if we leave unquestioned the human soul’s direct, immediate creation (Denz 2327). Provided that God directly create the human spiritual soul, we may read the 1909 Pontifical Biblical Commission’s teaching on the “special creation of man” to mean that the human body’s material origin took place through some form of evolution.

The “unity of the human race” implies the doctrine of monogenism, that Adam and Eve are the first parents of the entire human race. Ludwig Ott maintains: “The teaching of the unity of the human race is not, indeed, a dogma, but it is a necessary presupposition of the dogma of Original Sin and Redemption” (Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, page 96). This teaching follows because Original Sin “is the result of a sin committed, in actual historical fact, by an individual man named Adam, and it is a quality native to all of us, only because it had been handed down by descent from him” (Denz 2328). The Council of Trent’s Decree defines that Original Sin “is communicated to all men by propagation not by imitation.” The unity also means the entire human race takes its origin from Adam and Eve, our first parents, who were an actually existing individual pair of human beings, male and female, from whom we are all descended through natural generation.

St. Augustine notes that the attendant “preternatural gift of immortality” should be understood as the possibility of not dying, rather than as being the impossibility of dying (Ott, 104). The gift of immortality does not contradict every physical substance’s potential corruptibility, its composition of matter and form. The possible immortality of our first parents in no way opposes the dictum, “every man is mortal.” This famed syllogistic axiom merely states the potentially corruptible character of human hylemorphic nature. Ott maintains that the associated gift of impassibility means “the possibility of remaining free from suffering” (Ott, 104). The preternatural gifts of integrity and immortality seem to violate early humans’ natural condition. We do not easily control our passions, nor do we possess bodily immortality. But the proper ordering of elements in human nature that constitutes the gift of integrity is nature’s perfection, not its contradiction. So too, immortality, the possibility of not dying, entails the possibility of continued life. Life is the first act and perfection of any living nature, not its contradiction.

From the standpoint of intrinsic finality, the proof that such gifts were praeter-natural is the dismal fact that they have been lost. If they were natural properties flowing from human nature, we could never have lost them. The preternatural gifts of integrity and immortality are beyond human nature. They represent simply the ultimate natural perfection of human nature, awaiting eschatological realization. Predictably, the fossil record gives no evidence of such gifts. Still, revelation presents no intellectual scandal if it maintains our first parents possessed them.

Further, evolutionary science sees the broad picture of human origins taking place over a time-frame measured in hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years. It cannot focus on events affecting a single pair of humans at a given point in time. Anthropological data and theories are so general that they cannot oppose particular facts about an Adam and Eve, unless even the broad trends of such data are shown to oppose such particulars’ possibilities. Speculation based upon present data can, at best, indicate the nature and activities of early humans, pointing to largely undefined populations and imprecise time periods. It cannot address with precision the conditions of existence of a single pair of humans at a particular, distant-past time. It cannot exclude, a priori, the possibility of miraculous divine intervention whose reality falls entirely outside the fossil record.

From Adam, Eve, and the Hominid Fossil Record

Phil P
 
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rossum:
DNA, and the code by which it is interpreted is common to both humans and the vast majority of living organisms. … Both evolution and the Bible agree that DNA and its code originated before Adam …
It is true that living organisms that exist in the fallen world that is subject to death, disease, and decay share DNA. But there is no good reason to assume that before creation fell, that DNA even existed. The physical laws that governed the terrestrial paradise are not the physical laws of the fallen world, since there was no death at all in the terrestrial paradise!

It is a scientific fact that in the fallen world that humans share 70% of their DNA with turnips. But so what? Man no longer has an immortal body – he has a corrupted body that is subject to the physical laws of the fallen world because of Adam’s sin. It is fitting punishment for the sin of preferring the created to the Creator, that God would make Adam’s fallen body subject to a corrupted creation.

If the corrupted bodies that fallen men now inhabit came about by a process involving death, disease and decay, I have no problem with that.

What a Catholic cannot believe is that God is the author of death, and that death was running rampant in the terrestrial Paradise before the fall. Death entered into the physical creation because of Adam’s sin - that is the Catholic teaching. God was not using death to create plants and animals in the terrestrial paradise. Death is the enemy of God!
 
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Matt16_18:
But there is no good reason to assume that before creation fell, that DNA even existed. The physical laws that governed the terrestrial paradise are not the physical laws of the fallen world, since there was no death at all in the terrestrial paradise!
Then how can we know anything at all about the terrestrial paradise? You are opening the door to a huge number of unanswerable questions here.

Are the animals referred to as “cattle” in Genesis 1:24 the same as the animals we currently refer to as cattle? How can we know that they did not have six legs, were coloured blue and went “Faarn” rather than “Moo”? Either God created cattle before the fall, or cattle originated some time after the fall and what we see now are not the animals that God created. Are you saying that the animals we see in fields now are not created by God?

If you are unwilling to allow post-fall data to be valid before the fall then you are going to have to drop a lot more than just DNA. If Adam did not have DNA then Adam was not the ancestor of humanity because our DNA is passed to us from our ancestors. If our DNA did not originate with Adam, then where did it originate? Do we even know that the “Earth” that was created before the fall is the same as the Earth we now inhabit? Remember that you are saying “The physical laws that governed the terrestrial paradise are not the physical laws of the fallen world,” so perhaps there were dozens of earths before the fall and ours is not the one that God created.

I strongly suggest that you do not pursue this line of apologetics since you will quickly find that you are adrift in a sea of unanswerable questions.

rossum
 
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rossum:
Either God created cattle before the fall, or cattle originated some time after the fall and what we see now are not the animals that God created. Are you saying that the animals we see in fields now are not created by God?

rossum
Did Irish Wolfhounds exist before the Fall? No, they were bred.
The same can be said of Clydesdales.

We know what we know of pre-Fall existence from Sacred Scripture, not science.

Science cannot answer when the Fall occured, but it did occur did it not? How do we know that it did? Scripture. Can science tell us where the matter that was involved in the Big Bang came from? No. To say that the Bible must line up with Science is to disbelieve the Bible in favor of science.

No thanks.

We live by faith, not by sight.

Richard
 
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Orogeny:
Does the Pope disagree?

From
Communion and Stewardship:
Human Persons Created in the Image of God

The July 2004 Vatican Statement on Creation and Evolution


“While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution.”

Emphasis mine.

What is the Pope saying in this statement? Is he directly contradicting Humani Generis?

Peace

Tim
Its obvious that the Church in this statement is agreeing with what I posted above. This would bring into question the Doctrine of Original sin and its passing down to all of humanity from Adam and Eve.
Perhaps a synthesis of known knowledge at the time it was written done out of ignorance. We live in a world far different than in the past regarding knowledge, The physical evidence such as fossils is overwhelming in support of evolution. It looks like the above statement is a response to it.

The whole process was appears to be in two phases according to scripture.
First phase is creation from nothing by Almighty God using time and evolution under His Guiding Hand. Gen.1 ver. 27 speaks of creation.
Second phase is formation, Gen.2 ver. 7 and 8.
This is where an existing man and woman were formed by the infusion of a soul.
Although formed can have the meaning of creation in this case I believe that it has the meaning of forming something new or different out of something that already was.
The scripture I use is a Douay 1899 version fully approved with Imprimatur.
 
Lady Cygnus:
Actually it could…Let’s suppose this is the family tree of man:

ADAM ← Monkey ← small mammal ← mammal like reptile ← reptile ← fish ← single cell organism ← DNA strand ← Protein molecules ← STAR DUST!

Therefore Adam came from dust (the Bible just leaves out all the details inbetween) 👍
The evidence to support this claim exists neither in the Bible nor in the fossil record.

Blessings,
Richard
 
It is not all that complicated. The name/word “Adam” means first man. So no matter who or what preceeded or followed the person called Adam was the first man by definition.
 
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rossum:
Then how can we know anything at all about the terrestrial paradise?
The same way that we have knowledge of Purgatory, Abraham’s bosom, and Heaven – by divine revelation.
You are opening the door to a huge number of unanswerable questions here.
Science can only study the fallen world – should I be upset by this? We can have knowledge of what lies behind our passing world only by divine revelation. Divine revelation at least gives us some answers to questions that science can never penetrate.
If Adam did not have DNA then Adam was not the ancestor of humanity because our DNA is passed to us from our ancestors.
I don’t doubt that Adam in his fallen condition had DNA, and that he passed his DNA on to his progeny. Adam and Eve had their children after they lost their immortal bodies. A faithful Catholic must believe that all human beings have Adam and Eve as their first parents.
Do we even know that the “Earth” that was created before the fall is the same as the Earth we now inhabit?
Divine revelation tells us that the terrestrial Paradise was quite unlike our fallen universe, because there was no death, disease, or decay at all in the terrestrial paradise. Therefore, plants and animals could not have been evolving in the way that scientists conceive of evolution, since that is a process where death is a necessity. The decay of matter, the death of stars - the law of increasing entropy, these are all physical processes that reflect the reality that death now has dominion over all creation in the fallen universe.
… perhaps there were dozens of earths before the fall and ours is not the one that God created
Modern cosmologists are willing to seriously entertain the idea that that there may be vast numbers of parallel universes in existance. If there are, that wouldn’t mean that God didn’t also create each of these parallel worlds ex nihilio. God is fecund – it wouldn’t surprise if there are innumerable parallel universes to our fallen universe.
I strongly suggest that you do not pursue this line of apologetics since you will quickly find that you are adrift in a sea of unanswerable questions.
Should I abandon my belief in the Trinity too since it involves even more mystery than the relatively simple idea that the terrestrial paradise still exists in an uncorrupt state? 😃
 
Matt1618 << Divine revelation tells us that the terrestrial Paradise was quite unlike our fallen universe, because there was no death, disease, or decay at all in the terrestrial paradise. >>

Hey write me an article for my apologetics site. The title can be “The Terrestrial Paradise of Adam and Eve” and deals with the “death before the Fall” theological objection. I will put it on my site, and within a month the search terms “death before the Fall” and “terrestrial Paradise” in Google will include your article in the top 10. Maybe top 5. Happens to all my articles.

I definitely need an article on this and you know the most about this topic. Quote the Catechism, Church documents, Bible (e.g. Wisdom 1:12-13 – “God did not make death”), etc. Include a little biblical commentary, definition of Paradise, a little science about parallel universes, the whole deal. If I can get this theological objection dealt with, my creation-evolution-intelligent design section will be almost complete. 👍 OR I have saved quite a number of your posts on this topic already, maybe I can edit up a good article from your posts.

Phil P
 
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PhilVaz:
OR I have saved quite a number of your posts on this topic already, maybe I can edit up a good article from your posts.
I would love see you do that. 🙂
 
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Matt16_18:
The same way that we have knowledge of Purgatory, Abraham’s bosom, and Heaven – by divine revelation.
The problem with this is that I am a Buddhist. For example the Abhidharmakosa clearly states that there are sixteen hells, eight hot and eight cold. I understand that your scriptures say that there is one hot hell. We both see different things in scripture because we read different scriptures. We do not have an agreed source of knowledge.

Even if I allow you to use the Bible as a source of knowledge about the pre-Fall world it makes no mention of DNA so you cannot use it to show the existence or non-existence of DNA pre-Fall.

It seems to me that you are extending the spiritual differences between the pre-Fall and post-Fall world into the physical world. That is a mistake since there is a lot of scientific evidence that the underlying physical laws of the world have not changed since long before the emergence of life on earth, let alone the emergence of man. The Catholic Church learned a long time ago that when it comes to the physical world it does not pay to argue against the evidence of science. You would do well to follow the Church’s lead on this.
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Matt16_18:
We can have knowledge of what lies behind our passing world only by divine revelation.
Here we will have to disagree; only the words of the Buddha can be relied upon.
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Matt16_18:
Should I abandon my belief in the Trinity too since it involves even more mystery than the relatively simple idea that the terrestrial paradise still exists in an uncorrupt state? 😃
No, there is no need to abandon your belief in the Trinity since it is a spiritual concept and not a physical one.

rossum
 
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rossum:
… We both see different things in scripture because we read different scriptures. We do not have an agreed source of knowledge.
Of course. Which only proves that both scriptures cannot be correct.
… there is a lot of scientific evidence that the underlying physical laws of the world have not changed since long before the emergence of life on earth, let alone the emergence of man. The Catholic Church learned a long time ago that when it comes to the physical world it does not pay to argue against the evidence of science.
As a Catholic, I have no problem believing that the laws of physics that govern the fallen universe have always been the same since the momment the original creation became corrupted by Adam’s sin. But I also have no reason to think that the laws of physics that govern the fallen world are in any sense “absolutes” that cannot change. If I believed that, I couldn’t believe in miracles.
 
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Richard_Hurtz:
My question is “Was Adam the first man or did he ‘evolve’ from other life forms?”
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers…

284 The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin: is the universe governed by chance, blind fate, anonymous necessity, or by a transcendent, intelligent and good Being called “God”?..

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins… All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

286 Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. The existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason, even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error…

289 Among all the Scriptural texts about creation, the first three chapters of Genesis occupy a unique place. From a literary standpoint, these texts may have had diverse sources. The inspired authors have placed them at the beginning of Scripture to express in their solemn language the truths of creation - its origin and its end in God, its order and goodness, the vocation of man, and finally the drama of sin and the hope of salvation. Read in the light of Christ, within the unity of Sacred Scripture and in the living Tradition of the Church, these texts remain the principal source for catechesis on the mysteries of the “beginning”: creation, fall, and promise of salvation.
Genesis 2 contradicts Genesis 3 regarding the sequence in which things were created. The Jewish compilers of the Torah in the C5th BC must have seen this. The Greek translators of the Septuagint in the C3rd BC must have seen this. The Christian compilers of the Bible in the C4th AD must have seen this. It bothered none of them.

They accepted the fact that the text was not meant to be a simply literal account of a historical event. The point was that God created, and that man was the pinnacle (Ge 2) and centre (Ge 3) of that creation, not that he appeared from the dust 150 hours after God invented light.

Evolution has never been proven. However, it remains the most coherent and comprehensive explanation which we have seen thus far for the conditions which we observe now and for the objects in the fossil record.
 
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