Was asked to give man on street $

[JRKH]

But isn’t giving money (instead of food or clothing) to a homeless person whom we strongly suspect to be a drug addict/alcoholic immoral on our part? For instance, if the person already reeks of alcohol.
The addiction is probably a big part of why that person is on the street in the first place.

A strong suspicion is not knowledge…and a homeless person who “reeks” whether of alcohol or whatever - could do so simply because of where he has been.
Not saying that “Strong suspicions” aren’t valid…Just that they should be kept in check.

And if someone has become homeless as a result of chasing that high, he or she probably has little to no self control. In my mind, giving money to someone in that state is like handing a knife to a toddler…there’s very little chance of a good outcome. I’m not sure you can just say “well, if they make the wrong choice then it’s their sin” when it’s very easy to argue that person has a severely diminished capacity to make good choices with money.

Note that in my post I said “If there is sin involved it is theirs”. Only God can judge culpability and the only culpability we can have any control over is our own.
It is impossible to generalize on these things…because each person - each case is unique. The only thing that we can do is to look at and consider the different perspectives, pray on the matter, and then follow out conscience as best we can.

I’m sorry, JRKH, but in all charity I think you’ve mis-applied that teaching from Christ. Let’s look at the full context:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

Isn’t Jesus teaching us not to seek revenge for personal wrongs? If, as you claim, we have no responsibility to resist evil, then why does the CCC tell us that self-defense (on a personal or even a national level in the case of the Just War Doctrine) can be legitimate - and in fact, defense of others is required in certain cases?

No need to be sorry…I’m no expert and make no claim as such.
This section of Matthew’s Gospel is jam packed with teaching. Chapters 5, 6, 7 are all a part of the “Sermon on the Mount” and there is a lot of material covered. I don’t know that we can necessarily draw a great deal of connection between the start and end of the quoted section. I’m not saying that it isn’t all interconnected, but I’m not so sure that it is in a “restricting” way. If anything the entire Chapter is intended to open up the mind to greater giving, greater forgiveness and greater grace.

Doesn’t Christ expect us to use our common sense when we apply the teaching you presented above?

I don’t think that Christ expects us to apply “common sense” to anything. That which is “common” is often times not especially Christian. If we look just a little further in the passage we find that God does not discriminate:
43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
He makes it rain on the Just and the unjust equally…and then Jesus tells us to exceed what “common sense” might tell us and to be “Perfect as your heavenly father is perfect”…
Not sure how we do that…But there is the goal and it can’t be reached by applying “common” sense.

Of course I know you mean something more than simple “worldly” common sense and in that you are right. But applying a more Christ like form of common sense is often seen as “foolishness” to those in the world. So we need to try to apply things as Christ would have us do…

None of this is easy to know…

Consider this totally unlikely hypothetical situation: Let’s say you were walking down the street past an abortion clinic, when a visibly pregnant woman with tears in her eyes stops you and asks to borrow $1000. Given the circumstances, shouldn’t we at least ask what she plans to do with that money? And if she can’t produce a convincing response that doesn’t involve killing her child, shouldn’t we refuse? If the teaching above really just means, “don’t resist evil, period”…does that mean we should help the woman even if she admits she wants an abortion? Surely not.

Again, that’s kind of a ridiculous example…but sometimes looking at extreme cases helps to put normal cases in perspective.

Well the simple answer is “I don’t have a $1000 so that takes care of that…”…
I don’t necessarily mind ridiculous examples. I agree they can put some things into perspective.
In the example above though there is clearly an innocent third party involved which changes the dynamic considerably.

No offense intended to you, JRKH. Just trying to examine this teaching in more detail. :hug3:

No offense is taken my friend…

Peace
James

 

[mgoforth]

Note that in my post I said “If there is sin involved it is theirs”. Only God can judge culpability and the only culpability we can have any control over is our own.
It is impossible to generalize on these things…because each person - each case is unique. The only thing that we can do is to look at and consider the different perspectives, pray on the matter, and then follow out conscience as best we can.

I agree with this, for the most part - as well as the rest of your response - and I do want to give you credit, since your original post says that providing food instead of money is the best option.

 

[jreilly]

I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful responses. I’ve contacted a friend of mine that works with our local Rescue Mission; he’s going to give me some of the cards that have the Mission’s address and services on them.

Just as an aside, yesterday I put myself to “the test” and purposefully went in the direction of a man I knew would ask me for money and I was very pleased with my handling of it.

Thanks for your help, support, and prayers.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

I know, right? You’d think they’d still take the free meal even if it wasn’t what they were after. Maybe they think the time spent waiting for the food and eating the food will mean losing out on asking other people for money.

Even if they lose some time, it’s free food! If nothing else it saves them money that they can use towards whatever it is they are after. I mean, if someone came up to me after I’d had a rough day and said. “Hey buddy, you look like you’re having a hard time, let me get you a sandwich and a drink from Subway, or McDonalds, or wherever.” I’d probably say, “wow, thank you, how kind!”

Given I’d probably try to offer them money for the meal after, or ask if there was anything I could do for them…but I can’t see myself not accepting.

I’m not even down on my luck, far from homeless. Why would a person, even if not homeless, who was having a rough time and was claiming to be hungry not accept FREE food??? Maybe there is some guilt there because of what that individual might really be after?

 

[joshkt79]

May sound cruel, but I’ve never given money and I stopped offering to buy them food. When I offered food in the past, they would come up with excuses. Same thing with “gas” money. For some reason, I get hit alot with those. I can sense them coming from a mile away and I ignore them when they talk to me.

 

[mgoforth]

May sound cruel, but I’ve never given money and I stopped offering to buy them food. When I offered food in the past, they would come up with excuses. Same thing with “gas” money. For some reason, I get hit alot with those. I can sense them coming from a mile away and I ignore them when they talk to me.

Yes, it does sound cruel. These are human beings you’re talking about, not mosquitos or flies to just brush off. It’s also not very polite to ignore another person when they ask you a question. At the very least, couldn’t you smile and acknowledge their existence, even if you decide not to give them money?

Maybe “getting hit a lot with those” is God trying to get your attention?

 

[Joe_5859]

May sound cruel, but I’ve never given money and I stopped offering to buy them food. When I offered food in the past, they would come up with excuses. Same thing with “gas” money. For some reason, I get hit alot with those. I can sense them coming from a mile away and I ignore them when they talk to me.

Yes, it does sound cruel. These are human beings you’re talking about, not mosquitos or flies to just brush off. It’s also not very polite to ignore another person when they ask you a question. At the very least, couldn’t you smile and acknowledge their existence, even if you decide not to give them money?

Maybe “getting hit a lot with those” is God trying to get your attention?

Honestly, I see both sides and it’s difficult for me to really decide.

In college, after getting approached by the dozenth guy whose wife is in labor and is in his car which is just right around the corner (you can practically see it…only you can’t) and they were on the way to the hospital and they ran out of gas and if you could just give him $5 for gas (although $20 would be even better), then you’d be a real lifesaver… – after hearing this song and dance so many times, it’s easy to get cynical and be a bit suspicious.

I also once got apporached by a guy for money in a parking lot and the very next day I saw him in line at Walmart where he pulled out a huge wad of cash to pay for his stuff.

I just pray that when I come across someone in genuine need, I don’t miss it.

 

[joshkt79]

Yes, it does sound cruel. These are human beings you’re talking about, not mosquitos or flies to just brush off. It’s also not very polite to ignore another person when they ask you a question. At the very least, couldn’t you smile and acknowledge their existence, even if you decide not to give them money?

Maybe “getting hit a lot with those” is God trying to get your attention?

It really gets old after a while. The last time a beggar asked for money to eat, I offered to buy him lunch, whatever he wanted. He walked off and said “no, thanks”. I try not acknowledge them anymore because 90% of the time, it’s the same old story. I don’t remember not giving a beggar money, or even ignoring them was a sin.

 

[JRKH]

It really gets old after a while. The last time a beggar asked for money to eat, I offered to buy him lunch, whatever he wanted. He walked off and said “no, thanks”. I try not acknowledge them anymore because 90% of the time, it’s the same old story. I don’t remember not giving a beggar money, or even ignoring them was a sin.

Please know that no one here is judging you - or anyone else - on these matters. It’s up to you to read the gospels, learn what the Church teaches, speak with your confessor and with others (like the folks on here) and most importantly pray over this - - - Then act on your conscience.

We will each have to stand before our Lord and answer for how we treated the “Least of these…” (Mt 25:31-46)

May God have mercy on me for I am a poor servant…

Peace
James

 

[J_Peterson]

The way I approach it is that if I have some money, even if it is just change, I give it. If they buy drugs or alcohol with it rather than food, well, once it leaves my hand it is their money.

I can’t put strings on the gift.

Peace

Tim

That’s how I see it. All I see is someone in need, what that need is is not my business. Also, keep in mind that an alcoholic can die if they don’t get alcohol.

Of course I don’t give money to everyone (I’d be right there with them if I did). If the Spirit moves me to give I give, otherwise I just say sorry.

 

[mgoforth]

I don’t remember not giving a beggar money, or even ignoring them was a sin.

It depends on the situation…but in some cases it could be.

 

[Orogeny]

It really gets old after a while. The last time a beggar asked for money to eat, I offered to buy him lunch, whatever he wanted. He walked off and said “no, thanks”. I try not acknowledge them anymore because 90% of the time, it’s the same old story. I don’t remember not giving a beggar money, or even ignoring them was a sin.

It is not easy, no doubt, and each person has to decide for themselves how to handle the situation.

I had an encounter with a homeless man once that changed the way I look at those who ask for money. He did accept food and he had a story. I was responding to a tug of guilt for walking past him and not acknowledging him when I went back to offer to buy him some food. I was going to leave it at that, but I ended up sitting with him and listening to his story. I had never done anything like that before in my life and it had a deep impact on me.

That Sunday, the Gospel was Matthew 25:31-46 (usccb.org/bible/matthew/25). To say that I got chills reading that before Mass is an understatement!

Is ignoring them a sin? I don’t know, but Jesus seems to have some strong thoughts on the matter. I read that gospel reading and I pray that I make it into the first group and not the second.

Peace

Tim

 

[Reepicheep]

That is true where I live as well. I live in Anaheim, and I am pretty sure that many of the people that ask for money are either addicted to drugs, or frauds. My mom has offered to buy or make food instead before, but most of the times they reject. I think that this is a technique that you can use to see if they are telling the truth, because if they really need food, then they would accept it.

I still give money, but I only choose to give money if they seem legit, otherwise I will give food instead

It’s good to be careful; but I would not assume that anyone who refuses food must be a fraud.
I’ve heard of people putting emetics or poisons into food to give to panhandlers. A panhandler who refuses food mmay just be afraid.

 

[mgoforth]

It’s good to be careful; but I would not assume that anyone who refuses food must be a fraud.
I’ve heard of people putting emetics or poisons into food to give to panhandlers. A panhandler who refuses food mmay just be afraid.

Wow, that’s really disturbing…never thought of that, but I can totally believe it.

 

[porthos11]

I’m also not into giving money. If I can’t help, I usually just refuse politely.

One time, a fellow asked for dollar or something for an LRT train ticket home as he was apparently short on change. I don’t recall if I had the cash on me or not but I offered him one of my tickets instead (I had a book, and each ticket at the time was about $2.25). He happily accepted the ticket and thanked me. In this case, I probably lost more in dollar value than I would have had I just given him the loonie, but, it was clear that his need was genuine and was addressed.

 

[7_Sorrows]

May sound cruel, but I’ve never given money and I stopped offering to buy them food. When I offered food in the past, they would come up with excuses. Same thing with “gas” money. For some reason, I get hit alot with those. I can sense them coming from a mile away and I ignore them when they talk to me.

i have to side with you johskt79. i used to live in a large city. when people used to approach me for money, i did give a few dollars here and there and then would witness the person walking into a liquor store. i grew up with alcoholism and i do not want to contribute to anyone else’s drug habit or alcohol problem. i have seen these people passed out on the sidewalks or walking drunk down the street where they have fallen into the street in front of passing vehicles or they have been victims of crime while they are passed out. i do not feel guilty.
once i offered a woman to take her into the grocery store and buy her basic staples - milk, bread, butter, lunchmeat, etc. - supposedly she had hungry children at home and she lifted her blouse to show me a recent caesarean - i actually ran into this same woman a couple of years in a row and she had had another baby. anyhow, as we began to walk towards the grocery store she kept telling me that all she wanted was the money - she didn’t want the groceries. so i told her i couldn’t help her.
another example was in the town i currently live in. there were two native americans who were inside a restaurant i had walked into. i gave them $5 to buy something for both of them. i figured i was already in the restaurant and what could they do. they sat in the back of the restaurant and didn’t go order. then they hastily split out the back door to go next door to the convenience store and buy alcohol.
when you live in a big city, you are constantly confronted by these people - whether they are stranded and need gas money, or whether they are just wanting to know if you can spare a dollar. i knew a homeless man that stood by the freeway entrance and he made
$200-$300 a day.
i am like you josh. i can see them coming a mile away and i am a woman so i think they think i am an easy target. yes, i use the word target. i don’t feel guilty. i donate to charities and one of them is a mission that helps the homeless in that city i used to live in.
i donate food to the shelter.

 

[porthos11]

i have to side with you johskt79. i used to live in a large city. when people used to approach me for money, i did give a few dollars here and there and then would witness the person walking into a liquor store. i grew up with alcoholism and i do not want to contribute to anyone else’s drug habit or alcohol problem. i have seen these people passed out on the sidewalks or walking drunk down the street where they have fallen into the street in front of passing vehicles or they have been victims of crime while they are passed out. i do not feel guilty.
once i offered a woman to take her into the grocery store and buy her basic staples - milk, bread, butter, lunchmeat, etc. - supposedly she had hungry children at home and she lifted her blouse to show me a recent caesarean - i actually ran into this same woman a couple of years in a row and she had had another baby. anyhow, as we began to walk towards the grocery store she kept telling me that all she wanted was the money - she didn’t want the groceries. so i told her i couldn’t help her.
another example was in the town i currently live in. there were two native americans who were inside a restaurant i had walked into. i gave them $5 to buy something for both of them. i figured i was already in the restaurant and what could they do. they sat in the back of the restaurant and didn’t go order. then they hastily split out the back door to go next door to the convenience store and buy alcohol.
when you live in a big city, you are constantly confronted by these people - whether they are stranded and need gas money, or whether they are just wanting to know if you can spare a dollar. i knew a homeless man that stood by the freeway entrance and he made
$200-$300 a day.
i am like you josh. i can see them coming a mile away and i am a woman so i think they think i am an easy target. yes, i use the word target. i don’t feel guilty. i donate to charities and one of them is a mission that helps the homeless in that city i used to live in.
i donate food to the shelter.

I sympathize and I believe there is no moral obligation to give anything at all, be it cash, food or any form of assistance directly to panhandlers or strangers. We should fulfill our obligation to help one’s neighbour by going through the right channels such as church, charity, shelters, etc. It’s perfectly fine to politely refuse and walk away.

 

[fastenatingguy]

I was in Las Vegas for a trade show in April. I was crossing the strip in one of the overhead crossways and saw a man sitting there with a sign and a cup.

The sign said “I won’t lie to you, I’m going to buy beer with your money” or something similar.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I sympathize and I believe there is no moral obligation to give anything at all, be it cash, food or any form of assistance directly to panhandlers or strangers. We should fulfill our obligation to help one’s neighbour by going through the right channels such as church, charity, shelters, etc. It’s perfectly fine to politely refuse and walk away.

i agree.

 

[Edward_H]

Today, as I was leaving work a man came across the street and asked me if I had a couple dollars he could have. I paused, looked at my purse and said no sorry. He said he was stranded and needed food. I had the money - that wasn’t a problem.

I have no idea what the truth is, and it doesn’t matter. I am so angry with myself for ignoring his request. I started home, heard some song on the radio and immediately turned around to find him. I saw him at the bus stop. I decided that I’d hurry and buy him a meal from McDonalds and bring it to him. When I got back he was gone.

I went to mass tonight and asked God for forgiveness and will be sure to get to confession by Saturday if not before.

Obviously this is weighing heavily on my conscience so I know I am at fault. Please pray for the gentleman that I so blindly ignored, and if you would be so kind, for me to see our Lord in those in need. Thank you.

When in substantial doubt about the need, maybe don’t give, but commit to give to some other well known worthy cause soon after, and do it. And offer that gift, that act of charity also for the person you earlier passed by. And be serene about it.